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Opinions on Surge Brakes?

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Dmarr
Reg. Feb 2007
Posted 2008-07-07 10:02 PM (#87034)
Subject: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Posts: 108
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Location: Dallas, TX
Hello All,

I wanted info./opinions on surge brakes vrs. traditional brakes on horse trailers. Brenderup uses surge (inertia) brakes but no other horse trailer manufactures do (that I'm aware of). Is there a reason that they aren't used on horse trailers?

I was thinking about having them installed on my Merhow, I really liked the surge brakes when I had a Brenderup.

What do you all think?

Thanks!!

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2008-07-08 7:02 AM (#87042 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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What is the problem youre having with electric brakes?

To answer your question, I dont care for surge brakes. Lack of "in cab" adjustment and no way to manually apply the brakes, are my chief complaints.
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Dmarr
Reg. Feb 2007
Posted 2008-07-08 7:33 AM (#87044 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Posts: 108
100
Location: Dallas, TX
I'm not having any problems with my brakes, I just like the ease of hitching up and using the Brenderup with the surge brakes.

The fact that there isn't a brake controller and you don't have to make adjustments, etc. was nice!

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Tresvolte
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2008-07-08 8:13 AM (#87048 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?




50010010010025
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...

There are a few things that I don't like about surge brakes. Like Chad said, there is no in cab control. You can not manually apply your brakes, and you are pretty much limited to the pressure that is put against the hitch to stop you.

That brings me to my second thing; it has to put pressure on the tow vehicle to apply your brakes. In other words, it has to push you before it can help stop you. Your tow vehicle has added weight stopping in order to apply the trailer brakes. For all of the surge brake fans out there, I know that the push is minimal, but I still don't like it. 

Just my opinion....

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kentuckyrain
Reg. Apr 2008
Posted 2008-07-08 8:21 AM (#87050 - in reply to #87048)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?




1002525
Location: Kentucky
I politely disagree with the arguements against surge brakes. Actually the type of brake used on the Brenderup is superior to electric brakes and you never have to worry about an electrical short either! The reason they aren't used on more trailers is due to expense. I've been in Europe and have seen these trailers being pulled by little cars in big mountains, usually with huge horses in them. They work and work consistently. They do not 'push' the towing vehicle as mentioned above.
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-07-08 8:40 AM (#87052 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Location: western PA

I live in the North East and encounter winter driving conditions. Surge brakes depend on the braking action of the towing vehicle to activate the trailer brakes. In slippery conditions this can cause jackknifing. I have gotten out of several bad moments, by being able to manually activate the trailer brakes using my electric controller while NOT using my truck brakes.

In the marine environment, it was once thought that the surge brakes would solve the electrical maladies, caused by the total immersion into water of the trailer while launching and recovery of the boats. A majority of the boat trailers still use electrical brakes.

The surge brakes depend on a hydraulic actuator, brake lines and wheel cylinders similar to automotive brakes. It is more complex than the electrical systems, and each mechanical part has to be properly working for the entire system to function well.

The new electrical controllers have many features concerning proportioning, rate of application, trouble shooting etc, that, to the best of my knowledge, a hydraulic system can't duplicate.

Electric brakes are a proven application. They are reliable and work well. If one has failed, the others can continue to work unaffected. They are easy to maintain, and when necessary, trouble shoot and repair. I would think that having an electric to surge brake conversion installed, would be a complex and expensive proposition, with few advantages.

Gard

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Tresvolte
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2008-07-08 8:46 AM (#87055 - in reply to #87050)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?




50010010010025
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...

As long as we can agree to disagree, we are doing great!

I know surge brakes work. I never said they didn't. As far as an electrical short killing your brakes...a leaking line or brake cylinder, will do the same with hydraulics.

Hydraulic brakes in general do have superior braking abilities to electric. No questions about that.

However, if you pull long enough and far enough, you will end up in a situation when you need your brakes locked down now. Been there, done that. You will also end up in situations where you want a little more trailer brake than you do vehicle. Easily remedied for anything with in cab controls and adjustments. Surge brakes have neither.

Surge brakes not pushing you? Pull a 10,000# construction trailer, lock your brakes down, and then tell me that surge brakes do not push. Been there, done that too.

As far as surge brakes being superior...if that were the case, more manufacturers would at least offer them as an option. As it sits now, most horse trailer manufacturers don't offer the surge brakes.



Edited by Tresvolte 2008-07-08 8:47 AM
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jd&ez
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2008-07-08 9:48 AM (#87069 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Location: Ky

They are better than having no brakes. That's about it.

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stablemom
Reg. Jun 2007
Posted 2008-07-08 5:33 PM (#87099 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Posts: 250
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Location: AL
Are surge brakes and hydraulic override brakes the same thing? Hope I don't sound too ignorant!
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perfect11s
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2008-07-09 1:00 AM (#87114 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Posts: 83
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Location: Cheshire England
Over here electric brakes are frowned on!! small bumper pull  trailers all use surge or over run brakes with cables not hydraulic up to 3.5 tones ,    we are not allowed controls in the cab  the controler  must be on the trailer!!! the trailer must have   a parking brake and a brakeaway that applys the brakes, they are a simple fail safe system and work real well..  as said before we do tow heavy loads with small cars  http://www.bateson-trailers.co.uk/     bigger trailers and goosenecks  need to   have air brakes with ABS www.fifthwheelco.com      

Edited by perfect11s 2008-07-09 1:07 AM
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The OEM Parts Store
Reg. Jul 2008
Posted 2008-07-10 1:10 AM (#87184 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


Member


Posts: 5

Location: Dayton, Ohio

You really want some stopping power? I would go with Electric over Hydraulic and go with Kodiak Disc Brakes. With this setup you will have a smooth, powerful stop. You will pay a little more, but you would have one hell of a setup. A setup like that is pretty easy to install and you won't have no problem stopping. Surge Brakes can cause a jerky stop if not adjusted correctly at all times. I assume you wouldn't want to throw your cargo of balance. Surge works on pressure and with different weights things need adjusting. Not only is it a pain but there are other more efficient Trailer Brake Setups out there. I know Kodiak Disc Trailer Brakes pretty well, because we use them on all our disc trailer brake requests. Good luck finding the right setup for your trailer.

John

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Sharon
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2008-07-10 12:26 PM (#87214 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?



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Posts: 235
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Location: Bucksport, Maine

I live in Maine and owned a Brenderup for a while.  I hated the surge brakes... every time I hit a frost heave or pothole they applied themselves.  A bumpy ride for the horses just got bumpier!

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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2008-07-11 3:02 PM (#87308 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Location: Vermont

Back in 2004...  A four-year tussle ended in May when Maryland passed a law defining the legal use of surge brakes. House Bill #551 passed the house and senate unanimously and was signed by Gov Robert Ehrlich, thus allowing surge brakes on trailers with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 10,000 lb or less. A ratio of 1.50:1 (trailer to tow vehicle GVWR) is imbedded in the bill, preventing a small vehicle from towing a large trailer. The new law takes effect on October 1.

http://trailer-bodybuilders.com/mag/trucks_break_brakes/

And the Feds finally got their documents straight just recently...

http://www.forconstructionpros.com/print/Rental-Product-News/Columns/Surge-brakes-declared-legal/6FCP7156



Edited by PaulChristenson 2008-07-11 3:06 PM
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cupid
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2008-07-16 6:43 PM (#87566 - in reply to #87052)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Posts: 28
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Location: Illinois
Originally written by gard on 2008-07-08 8:40 AM

The surge brakes depend on a hydraulic actuator, brake lines and wheel cylinders similar to automotive brakes.


As another poster pointed out, Brenderup brakes are NOT hydraulic, they work by cables.

I love my B'up, would not trade it for anything, but yes I could see having a manually activated electric in addition to the surge brakes being a bonus in some instances. However, I avoid trailering in the rain and snow so it's far from a necessity. (I value my horse too much to take a chance in bad weather.)
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Tresvolte
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2008-07-17 8:09 AM (#87595 - in reply to #87566)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?




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Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...

Originally written by cupid on 2008-07-16 6:43 PM

As another poster pointed out, Brenderup brakes are NOT hydraulic, they work by cables. I love my B'up, would not trade it for anything, but yes I could see having a manually activated electric in addition to the surge brakes being a bonus in some instances. However, I avoid trailering in the rain and snow so it's far from a necessity. (I value my horse too much to take a chance in bad weather.)

Brenderup brakes are surge brakes. All surge brakes are considered hydraulic.

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2008-07-17 1:23 PM (#87625 - in reply to #87595)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Posts: 1416
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Location: sc
Originally written by Tresvolte on 2008-07-17 8:09 AM

Originally written by cupid on 2008-07-16 6:43 PM

As another poster pointed out, Brenderup brakes are NOT hydraulic, they work by cables. I love my B'up, would not trade it for anything, but yes I could see having a manually activated electric in addition to the surge brakes being a bonus in some instances. However, I avoid trailering in the rain and snow so it's far from a necessity. (I value my horse too much to take a chance in bad weather.)

Brenderup brakes are surge brakes. All surge brakes are considered hydraulic.



Hydraulic means "involving, moved by, or operated by a fluid, especially water, under pressure". Brenderup Inertia brakes are operated by cables, not fluid. They are a type of surge brakes, but they are not considered hydraulic.

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Tresvolte
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2008-07-17 1:41 PM (#87629 - in reply to #87034)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?




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Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Okay. I stand corrected. Did they not use to be conventional surge brakes? Or have they always been mechanical?
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loveduffy
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2008-07-17 3:23 PM (#87634 - in reply to #87629)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?



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Location: NY
question ????? how do you back up with surge brakes just a question I am not taken a side here
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-07-17 4:24 PM (#87644 - in reply to #87625)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Posts: 5870
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Location: western PA
Originally written by chadsalt on 2008-07-17 2:23 PM

Originally written by Tresvolte on 2008-07-17 8:09 AM

Originally written by cupid on 2008-07-16 6:43 PM

As another poster pointed out, Brenderup brakes are NOT hydraulic, they work by cables. I love my B'up, would not trade it for anything, but yes I could see having a manually activated electric in addition to the surge brakes being a bonus in some instances. However, I avoid trailering in the rain and snow so it's far from a necessity. (I value my horse too much to take a chance in bad weather.)

Brenderup brakes are surge brakes. All surge brakes are considered hydraulic.

Hydraulic means "involving, moved by, or operated by a fluid, especially water, under pressure". Brenderup Inertia brakes are operated by cables, not fluid. They are a type of surge brakes, but they are not considered hydraulic.

A hundred years ago, automobiles had cable operated brakes. Technology and experience has taught us new ways to slow a vehicle.

Gard

 

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cupid
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2008-07-23 3:05 PM (#88089 - in reply to #87634)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


Member


Posts: 28
25
Location: Illinois
Originally written by loveduffy on 2008-07-17 3:23 PM

question ????? how do you back up with surge brakes just a question I am not taken a side here


The brakes on a Brenderup are adjusted so you can back up--there is a "threshold" of pressure (or something like that) where the brakes are activated. So if you back too fast the brakes would come on.
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2013-07-16 6:09 AM (#153373 - in reply to #87184)
Subject: RE: Opinions on Surge Brakes?


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Originally written by The OEM Parts Store on 2008-07-10 1:10 AM

You really want some stopping power? I would go with Electric over Hydraulic and go with Kodiak Disc Brakes. With this setup you will have a smooth, powerful stop. You will pay a little more, but you would have one hell of a setup. A setup like that is pretty easy to install and you won't have no problem stopping. Surge Brakes can cause a jerky stop if not adjusted correctly at all times. I assume you wouldn't want to throw your cargo of balance. Surge works on pressure and with different weights things need adjusting. Not only is it a pain but there are other more efficient Trailer Brake Setups out there. I know Kodiak Disc Trailer Brakes pretty well, because we use them on all our disc trailer brake requests. Good luck finding the right setup for your trailer.

John



I did exactly that on my head to head trailer and they are FINE BRAKES indeed.
Not that I drive in a style that needs much use of brakes, but being ABLE to stop when necessary is very reassuring.
I hadn't counted on the added benefit of oil bath hubs, in fact I seriously considered staying with grease, since the axle spindles still have their zerk fittings.
It is SO NICE to just glance down at the hubs at every rest stop and KNOW that the oil level is right.
I had electric over hydraulic drums on this trailer previously, but these are SO much better and a lot easier & cheaper to maintain.

Imagine; no drums to pull off, just two pins (per wheel) to pull for changing brake pads.
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