Well hopefully this post stimulates a lot of input from experts and honest opinioned folks as well! I have a 2001 Sundowner 3 horse slant....bunkhouse....so the total over-all length is about 42' I am pulling this monster with a 2005 Chevy 4-door dually diesel, 8 ft. bed. I added air bags....I have the "Edge Chip/Monitor" I'm using a una-goose under body frame hitch....and when I'm hooked up I'm about SIXTY FEET LONG.....I had my trailer in for a repair....drug a sliding step off the bunkhouse bedroom going SLOW over a RR crossing! The guy that worked on the trailer said my tongue weight was about 7,000 lbs!!!!! He also said it was the heaviest, most dog-gonedest...trailer to "jimmy" around his yard and shop! We love the roominess of this trailer but have almost decided WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!! I can't even believe that I'm actually pulling this monster with a 1 ton truck! AND get a load of this....the crazy guy I bought it from (off this site) tried to convince me that he pulled it with a Chevy 2500 HD-SHORT BED!!! Loaded with 2 horses and all our gear, generator...etc...Lots of Water.....I hate to even think about the weight! Has anyone else had these complaints....what do they expect us to pull these with!!!! I hope I don't have to get a SEMI-TRUCK....help ....I usually just stay in the background and read all the posts...but this really has me spooked! I also use the Prodigy braking system....YIKES.....can you see me stopping this train!!!
Posted 2006-09-08 7:35 PM (#48156 - in reply to #48152) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Expert
Posts: 2689
It is probably about 34ft on the floor, mine is 30ft but has NO camper section and weighs about 8,000 with 2 horses, a lot of hay, etc. I rarely get weighed.
Your's is going to be WAY over 60ft total.
I don't think driving around should be a problem, your axles are probably set farther forwards than mine (head to head, they mount them WAY back on the 4-Stars if it isn't a 6 horse) though at 7,000 pin load you're probably close to or over many of the truck's G*** numbers. I'd check that, it seems just TOO much.
Is your's outfitted with lots of "Marble and Tile" ?
Posted 2006-09-08 7:50 PM (#48158 - in reply to #48156) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Veteran
Posts: 122 Location: Grant Twp., MI
Howdy and thanks for responding...my axles are set...IMHO...too far back....the living quarters are about 21 foot short wall...then the 3 horses...has mangers...OH and NO Marble or Ceramic Tile....BUT believe me...everything else!!! I do all the driving...my husband is TOO FEARFUL and I'm almost deciding that it is too much....I had a nice "little" 4-Star with a 12' LQ and was a 3 horse...grass looked a lot greener until I jumped the fence! Do you think I need more truck?
Posted 2006-09-08 8:26 PM (#48160 - in reply to #48158) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by Judy K on 2006-09-08 7:50 PM
Howdy and thanks for responding...my axles are set...IMHO...too far back....the living quarters are about 21 foot short wall...then the 3 horses...has mangers...OH and NO Marble or Ceramic Tile....BUT believe me...everything else!!! I do all the driving...my husband is TOO FEARFUL and I'm almost deciding that it is too much....I had a nice "little" 4-Star with a 12' LQ and was a 3 horse...grass looked a lot greener until I jumped the fence! Do you think I need more truck?
Not for me to say (-:
Your camping style, Your money, Your trailer to tug around, etc.
Personally I'd go for less trailer, but I don't DO the camper thang.
Comfort Inns; no cooking, no dishes to wash, no beds to make, no cleaning, etc., on and on,,,
OK, so its $60 to $100 a night - maybe 30 nights a year.
Posted 2006-09-09 5:59 AM (#48170 - in reply to #48152) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
More truck! Mid duty! Just my 02 worth. I'd pull over some truck scales and get a idea what it weighs.Pull far enough on them for truck ro be off scalles,if a electric jack run to trailer and jack it up enough so neck is just off the ball and get a weigh on it.
Posted 2006-09-09 10:34 AM (#48177 - in reply to #48152) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Regular
Posts: 57 Location: Casa Grande Arizona
I'm the guy you want to talk to. I bought a sundowner 4H with a huge living quarters and a 12' slideout about 6 months ago. The trailer is 42' tip to tip and 34' on the floor. Basically the same trailer as yours. I was using my 2500 HD Chevy with the duramax/allison combo. I also did the airbags. I went to the truck scales and decided to weigh everything to find out where my pin weights and gross weights were at.
My gross weight was 14,500 empty. My pin weight was 5000K empty. Add horses and water and you get heavier really fast. Next weekend I'm sure I will be really close to 20K+ when full of gear and such.
Your truck is only supposed to have a pin weight of 3,000 and a gross trailer weight of around 15,000. Either way you are going to be way over in both catagories. Before you know it you will be at 20,000+ and it will get really ugly really fast. Your biggest problem is actually your tires. If you have load range D tires you are much braver than me. Load range E tires get you much closer to the limit of the tire. Either way you will be overloading your tires. It is just a matter of time before you are going 65 and loose a tire. I don't even want to think about that mess. It scared the crap out of me.
Here is what I did and I'M A TON HAPPIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I went out and bought an older F550 quad cab with a hauler bed. It pulls the trailer like a dream. My trailer no longer owns my truck. I can stop a TON, TON, TON better with this truck. The only downside is the F550 has less horsepower and it takes a little longer to get up a hill every now and then. My horses and dogs don't seem to mind if we have to leave a bit earlier.
Do yourself, your family and your critters a favor..........Go weigh your trailer and you will probably need to get a new truck. There really is nothing you can do to the 2500 to get it where it needs to be to pull your trailer. If I could have done it with my 2500 I would have but it just wasn't meant to pull these trailers.
I will tell you that when you have a bigger truck you will be so much happier that you have the proper truck. I was not nearly as comfortable in my 2500 as I am with the F550. The other day I had to use the 2500 to pull the trialer across town and I can tell you that I didn't fell comfortable for one second now that I have the F550. The difference is night and day. If you lived in AZ I would let you pull your trailer with the F550 and you would buy another truck instantly.
I'm not a Ford guy at all but they seem to have the cheapest mid duty used trucks out there. I really wanted a chevy 4500 but they are a bit expensive for my budget right now. I really think the internationals and other sport trucks are really the way to go if you have an extra 120K laying around. they are the neatest mid duty trucks going right now.
Here is more food for thought. If you get in an accident and they find out you are over weight..........Guess who is at fault. If the accident is a fatality.......Guess what happens next!!!!!!!!!
Good luck in your new truck buying adventure. You will sleep so much better when you get a different truck. The key is to keep your 2500 and tell your wife that you NEED a bigger truck for the trailer so everyone can be SAFE!!!!!!!!
Posted 2006-09-09 10:48 AM (#48180 - in reply to #48152) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544 Location: Claxton, Ga.
Chad, this is the wife it seems from what I have read. She has a 3500 DRW Longbed Chevy. She is alot better off than you were by far. From what I have looked at a 30' box is about the limit of a 3500 DRW type truck. No doubt she needs to weigh it to see exactly where she stands. I would never be pulling this type of trailer with a 2500 or 3500 Single Rear Wheel. It is very possible she will be at or over the limit with no load.
Posted 2006-09-09 3:50 PM (#48190 - in reply to #48152) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Veteran
Posts: 122 Location: Grant Twp., MI
OK.....I DO NOT HAVE A CDL license.....I didn't think it was necessary in Michigan, yet...but hey...what do I know? And to the guy talking about a 2500...I have a 3500 diesel dually....but I'm beginning to feel un-safe.....hubby just rides "bitch" and while he's in that seat...all he does is "bitch"....get the picture?
Posted 2006-09-09 6:58 PM (#48196 - in reply to #48190) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by Judy K on 2006-09-09 3:50 PM
OK.....I DO NOT HAVE A CDL license.....I didn't think it was necessary in Michigan, yet...but hey...what do I know? And to the guy talking about a 2500...I have a 3500 diesel dually....but I'm beginning to feel un-safe.....hubby just rides "bitch" and while he's in that seat...all he does is "bitch"....get the picture?
I don't think Michigan is an excepted state.
If trailer over 10,000 and combined over 26,000 you need Class A.
Sometimes they print it as "26,001 or greater".
I'm in Mass, I could be wrong, but I think I'm not.
I think you need to check with your local dot, probably shouldn't be driving it until you do (-:
EDIT: On second thoughts, some states appear to have some sort of an "RV license". I think if you have "Camper" or "RV" plates on it you might not need the CDL. In any case check with your state's dot. I don't know about the validity of RV licenses outside your home state.
END EDIT:
Posted 2006-09-09 10:55 PM (#48207 - in reply to #48190) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544 Location: Claxton, Ga.
Originally written by Judy K on 2006-09-09 7:50 PM
OK.....I DO NOT HAVE A CDL license.....I didn't think it was necessary in Michigan, yet...but hey...what do I know? And to the guy talking about a 2500...I have a 3500 diesel dually....but I'm beginning to feel un-safe.....hubby just rides "bitch" and while he's in that seat...all he does is "bitch"....get the picture?
You go girl.... Some women can just drive the wheels off of it. Don't think they can't........ I have known a few...
Posted 2006-09-10 10:24 PM (#48260 - in reply to #48152) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544 Location: Claxton, Ga.
I remember this type of trailer when I was looking around. It was called a Sundowner BunkHouse. I was told by the dealership I bought my trailer from that if I wanted a Sundowner bunkhouse I would need something bigger than my Dodge 3500 DRW. That sucker was big and heavy. Does it have a slide?
Posted 2006-09-11 11:36 AM (#48299 - in reply to #48152) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Veteran
Posts: 122 Location: Grant Twp., MI
Howdy all!! - It does not have a slide - although it is probably heavy enough to have one added! It does have 3 separate rooms - there is a "camper" door into the "main" living quarters and then on the oposite side of the trailer there is another "camper" door into the bunkhouse....the BIG bathroom is between the bunkhouse and the "nose room"...the short wall is about 21-22 feet - and it has another door into the horse area...it has 3 big wardrobe closets and too many other hidey-holes to mention with a 8 cu. ft. fridge/freezer stove/oven/microwavedouble ceramic sinks....sofa and dinette!Awnings and a ramp, 2-30 lb. propane tanks,2 batteries/spare tire...all adding to the weight. Also, to me - the axles are set way back and it makes it hard to park, turn, back-up.....I've learned how to sorta..but with a lot of grief from my SO. I am going to make it a point the next trip this month - after I'm fully loaded with supplies/hay/water/horse/mule to pull on a certified scale....I'm sure that I'm way over any weight limits for my truck...even though it seems to pull decent. I did check and my tires are E load range....but my question originally - is what are the MANUFACTURERS of these giant rigs thinking.....not everyone wants to get into a medium or heavy duty truck or semi-truck....this 1 ton dually I bought last year...surely I was thinking it would be big enough to pull anything the Manufacturers would be selling.....also...now it seems like I might need a special driver's license, too!
Posted 2006-09-11 12:23 PM (#48304 - in reply to #48299) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Expert
Posts: 2953 Location: North Carolina
Originally written by Judy K on 2006-09-11 10:36 AM
I'm sure that I'm way over any weight limits for my truck...even though it seems to pull decent. I did check and my tires are E load range....but my question originally - is what are the MANUFACTURERS of these giant rigs thinking.....not everyone wants to get into a medium or heavy duty truck or semi-truck....this 1 ton dually I bought last year...surely I was thinking it would be big enough to pull anything the Manufacturers would be selling.....also...now it seems like I might need a special driver's license, too!
Judy ... There is no gentle way to say this.
The trailer builders didn't do the thinking... YOU ARE supposed to. The buyer (you) have to choose the truck to pull the trailer. You didn't buy a package deal, (Truck & Trailer) did you ? If you did, then you have a valid point. Otherwise, you're appearing to be very much a person with more Dollars than sense.
If you still want to pull this trailer legally & safely, get an appropriate truck and driving license.
Posted 2006-09-11 12:39 PM (#48307 - in reply to #48304) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Veteran
Posts: 122 Location: Grant Twp., MI
Oooooh hosspuller...cut me to the bone! Actually the "gentleman" that sold me this trailer said that he only pulled it with a 2001 Chevy 2500 HD SHORT BED 4 x 4 - gasoline engine...WITH NO PROBLEMS!!! I already owned this 3500 dually diesel...so I ASSumed that I would be able to pull it.....Actually this guy's wife and son were there and supported his story....he said he even pulled it through the hills/mountains in Pennsylvania....good for me that Michigan is flat!But, you're right, I should have explored it more thoroughly...wonder what Sundowner would say? I think I will contact them!
Posted 2006-09-11 2:08 PM (#48317 - in reply to #48307) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by Judy K on 2006-09-11 12:39 PM
But, you're right, I should have explored it more thoroughly...wonder what Sundowner would say? I think I will contact them!
sundowner will say they are not responsible for the end user selecting the proper power unit (truck). as for what the manufacters are thinking.....its pretty simple, they make trailers of ALL sizes. im sure they would point you in the right direction as to what truck would be required if asked. this is another classic example of the "protect me from myself" mentality so common in this country.
Posted 2006-09-11 3:23 PM (#48326 - in reply to #48307) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Expert
Posts: 2953 Location: North Carolina
Judy .. I'm glad you're taking my comment with a light heart. The lesson here is: beware of the seller's presentations. We have heard your experiance many times in various forms. Usually, it's some trailer or misinformed car dealer saying "your" truck will pull it. I thought it, unfair of you to blame the trailer builders.
The forum will be glad to help you figure what type of truck and equipment you'll need or want.
You might have to wade through the many opinions, but that's what makes this forum function so well.
Posted 2006-09-11 3:33 PM (#48328 - in reply to #48152) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Elite Veteran
Posts: 671 Location: THE GREAT NORTHWET, OREGON(THE REAL GODS COUNTRY)
yea they don't look that big till you hook it up and pull it down the road !!1
Been there done that.
I have a class B cdl, wife has a class A,double endorsement.
So if we get too overloaded she gets to drive.
My F350 dually CC 4x4 4.10 gears does a great job with our 10x15 Trailswest 3 horse mid tack with slide.I think my pin load was 5500 loaded and I was right at the 23500 gvcwr.
I pulled it home with a F250 4x4 crew cab short bed
Posted 2006-09-12 7:53 AM (#48371 - in reply to #48328) Subject: RE: Excessive Tongue Weight
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Columbia, TN
I had a Sundowner that was 4H 37' Box and know what you are going through. The Sundowners are heavy ( 727 or 725 ) whether they are all al. or al over steel. Kind of like the tail wagging the dog. I got a smaller trailer and love it.
Excessive Tongue Weight
