1.  There is a reason for the bucking.

1.1  While it is probably a learned trait by now, noneltheless, there initially was a legitimate reason for the bucking.

2.  Could be a saddle that used to fit, doesn't fit anymore, and is pinching him.  Look at the sweat mark patterns on your saddle blanket.  If he is a wide horse and the gullet is narrow, it is pinching the whithers --- always a big ouchee for the horse.

2.1  Could be there are nails or tacks coming thru the sheepskin underneath, or if it's an english saddle, could still be something poking and prodding him.

2.2 Could be the cinch is pinching him.

3.  Worse yet could be the poor horse's skeleton is out of alignment and bucking is his way of trying to get you off his back and get him away from pain.

I'm sure there are a few more issues that I'm not thinking of at the moment, hopefully someone else will post them.

Once all of the reasons WHY have been positively eliminated, the horse will most likely have to be re-schooled not to buck anymore.  To reiterate, the bucking is now a learned habit and will have to be un-learned:)

As a general rule, anytime a horse mis-behaves, they are trying to tell us something------it is up to us to figure out what that something is

Sounds like he's what cowboy types call a cold backed horse.  I had one once back when I trained and I sold her for a broodmare, not to be ridden.

She never got over her saddle issues and she was 8.  With her breeding I sold her cheap and never looked back.

I have to agree with Pawalker.....most likely something is causing him pain or irritation.  Perhaps trying a new saddle pad and a different saddle for one ride might give you some indication of what is bothering him.  I had to go through this with my 8 yr old mare too, turns out the girth I was using was irritating her and she was trying to tell me that it hurt!  I changed from a neoprin girth to a nice wooly one (same size) and she never complained again. 

Also you might try lunging him first for 5 min to get the "kinks" out.  Is your horse generally good natured on the ground when you handle him?

I had a friend with the same problem with her horse.  We'd be riding and out of the blue he'd start bucking.

I borrowed her one of my saddles and he didn't do it then.  She had someone help her fit a saddle to her horse and has since bought a new saddle extra wide.  He hasn't bucked since.

I had my horse once the longer I rode the worse his acted.  He started stomping his feet, shaking his head & whole body just having a fit.  I finally got off and took his saddle off and he immediately started biting his saddle pad.  He sure let me know he wasn't comfortable with something with his tack.  It was the saddle and pad I always used on him and I didn't find anything wrong. I finally figured out he had a skin irritation because his back  really itched in one place.  I was an hour out and the hour back wasn't very fun. He's only acted like that the one time and ended up with flaky skin in that spot that went away.  It wasn't something I could see at the time just feeling around on his back he let me know where the problem was.

I agree, there must be something wrong that is causing him physical pain.  It definitely doesn't sound like he is "coldbacked" or a rogue horse.  A cold backed horse is an old cowboy term, that now has been shown to mean these horses weren't given sufficient training time, and never established trust issues, they were worked hard from dawn to dusk, and soon realized by bucking they could most of the time get rid of the cause of pain to them.  I would first have a vet examine him for back or even kidney issues.  Next have a chiropractor work on him.  Then I would check your tack (once you are assured it was nothing physically wrong with the horse).  I always stretch my horses front legs once they are tightly cinched.  This pulls the skin forward so it isn't being pinched under the cinch. I then go back and check the cinch again, and repeat the strtching forward of the legs.  I have never had a horse cinch sore.  I hope you figure what is going on with your gelding.  Horses don't act, they react.

I had a wonderful mare who started doing this very same thing after I had her for 2 years. She would crow-hop and buck for the first 1/2 of a trail ride, then settle down and be fine. A friend suggested an equine chiropractor look at her, and in 5 minutes he discovered the problem. Her hip was out of place and the weight of me getting on her just set her off, then she just dealt with the pain the rest of the ride. He worked on her twice and I never had another problem. (She is 23 this year and still going strong!). I truly believe in chiropractic for horses.

Dusty

Thanks for thinking cold backed horses don't exist, never say never because you haven't seen them all...(here's the story)

The little mare in my post was taught to buck by her dumb teenage owner.  So when you tightened the girth she would set back flip over and buck while running out the barn.  I had her for two weeks and told the owners I wasn't going to hurt myself just to "fix his problem" he agreed and she hit the sale barn after some "show prep" grooming.

He doubled his money.

Point being sell the horse.

Huntseat, I agree with you!  I had a cold backed horse too.  He was great to ride but getting that sadlle cinched was a chore.  I would have him tied in his stall and take 20 min. to slowly tighten the girth.  If I cinched up to quickly, he would explode.  Unfortunately, the people that sold him to me, never informed me of his problem. 

"So you are saying those "cold backed" horses just went Poof! I am going to be a bucker?" 

No buckers happen for a variety of reasons.  Sometimes it's because the person who broke them were clueless and either didn't correct them for "attitude bucking", the "I don't want to!" kind.  Sometimes it is caused because of pain or misunderstanding issues.  THe job of the trainer is to evalutate the situation and correct it.  It sounds to me like you have been reading or going to "horse whisperer" clinicians.  One can learn some decent things from these guys, but they do not cover all aspects of training.  I have been training with trainers for 28 years and have seen all kinds of horses.  Most are the reactive kind but some are the "screw you" kind.  No matter which type you are dealing with, the first thing you must do is become the alpha.  That isn't too difficult with most horses but it can be a constant struggle with the dominant type of horse that always will challenge authority.  Horse like that can be great horses but not in the hands of the average owner.  They need to go "down the road".

I don't attend clinics, all they are is a marketing ploy.  Second of all, it is common sense.  You replied saying everything I have been saying all along.  The horses learn it.  I also wrote up several posts, there are a minute few who are born rogue horses.  Less than 1%.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if a horse is in pain, confused, or afraid they will react a certain way.  You can tell if another person is upset by the way they act don't you?  Animals are no different.  They use body language to express something is troubling them.  Watch a herd of horses, cattle, sheep, deer, etc.  Any animal that is a flight animal gives signals prior to their reaction.  It has nothing to do with going to a clinic and listen to someone talk about something that has been common sense since horses were first captured and ridden. 

If a horse bucks there is a reason behind.  Granted, there are a few who will give a short crowhop if they are feeling frisky, but a horse that bucks hard, is giving a reaction to something that is distressing them. 

So if you want to label a troubled horse "cold backed" go right ahead.  99.9% of horses are born cold backed.  Look up the term "cold backed", that was a cowboy slang term from my Grandfathers era.  Although, my Grandfather didn't ride in a saddle.  That is a different discussion.  Maybe because I do have Native American roots I tend to view animals in a different way.  I was brought up to respect ALL animals, and treat them with kindness.  I do work with other peoples horses who are "troubled".  Only have I had to turn away a horse a couple times.  Because the horse was definitely too far gone.  It is about trust, making the horse feel good, positive reinforcement, and physical well being.  A horse will tell you if it is in distress, it our duty to them to recognize when common sense is needing to be utilized. 

For those who do go to clinics, more power to you.  You have to get a foot in the door somehow, but if you don't have common sense, then no matter who you train under, go see at a clinic, read from a book you won't get far with horses.  You can tell the ones who don't, they are the ones who have a high turn over in horses, generally they pass on to others horses that started out good, but got ruined by them due to lack of common sense.

I am glad the original poster discovered it was equipement issues causing her horse discomfort.  That is a huge indicator that the poster has good common sense!  Glad we could help.

Hav, I agree!  Lots of the show horses I've come across have "poor work ethics" and must be taught to do it right or trot it off!  I had (getting qualified but I'd never own) an Impressive mare that was really fun.  You'd longe her and pray she wouldn't have a "fit."  The mare literally didn't kow how to canter/lope and would only trot so her only option was pleasure driving.  Wanna talk about a real wreck?  Try driving one of these "piss on you" horses and see how expensive those wrecks get!

I now will call cold-backed horses dog food if that will make you happier mrsmedic.

"So if you want to label a troubled horse "cold backed" go right ahead."

I never said the horse was cold backed.  I said that if she could not find a medical or training reason for the horse's bucking, then it could be a horse with a bad attitude.  I also believe that horse training is mostly common sense.  You don't have to have Native American ancestry to understand animal behavior either.  You just have to pay attention.  Longeing a horse is a non aggressive method to have a horse learn a lesson.  There is nothing wrong with it, especially for riders that are not experienced trainers.

yes you are right i didnt mention that ,im pretty new to the computer stuff and writing on the computer,i should have put in more info i apoligize for the lack of information that  i wrote on my posting.i will remeber next time to be more informative with my problems

I do agree that "cold backed" horses should be labeled dog food.  If they are that bad then somewhere whether by breeding for a bad trait or the bad training by someone has permenantly soured that horse.    I guess we all agree, irregardless of terminology that a horse reacts to its training. 

I do believe in longeing, but not as a form of discipline, but as an excerise in trust and building them up physically.  By longeing the horse you aren't teaching them that bucking is bad, you are building them up physically and teach them that all they are going to do is go round and round in circles until eventually they become very strong.

I have yet to see longeing for respect actually work, but maybe because I don't go to clinics I haven't seen it in person. 

I guess we all get set in our ways as far as training.  At least we ALL agree on the common sense part!  I do appreciate a good debate, it just appears we debated eachother just over terminology vs good horsemanship ethics! 

In a round about way we all want the best for the horse and rider, and the ultimate goal is to be safe around and on our horses!  I think Teresa is awesome for coming to this group for some advice.  I applaud her for that!