Posted 2005-12-02 9:25 PM (#33693) Subject: Bent Axles
New User
Posts: 1
Location: Edwardsville IL
I have a 02 GN CM trailer that had been blowing right rear tires. I pull it with a 98 dodge ram. Thinking something was wrong, I took it to a dealer and was told that both axles were bent. It is being repaired and I will get new tires. I am distraught that I am having such problems on a new trailer. According to the dealer, it does not take much to bend these axles. Does anyone know what is going on?
Posted 2005-12-02 10:43 PM (#33700 - in reply to #33693) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Regular
Posts: 52 Location: Loxahatchee, Fl.
It happens. When our old trailer was new. I watch my wife go through the gate at the arena, heard a loud bang. The next day I inspected the trailer not a dent or a bump. Two days later the tire was dead. That was the first and last bent axel in 20 years. So yes it happen how often is anybodys' guess.
Posted 2005-12-03 8:22 AM (#33701 - in reply to #33693) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Member
Posts: 19
Location: Louisiana
THE RIGHT REAR TIRE CARRIES MORE WEIGHT THAN THE OTHER TIRES, THEREFORE IT IS THE FIRST TO BEND WHEN OVER LOADED. ALSO, THE BED OF THE DODGE PK IS VERY HIGH AND IF THE FRONT OF THE TRAILER IS TOO HIGH, IT PUTS MORE WEIGHT ON THE REAR AXLE. THE TRAILER NEEDS TO RIDE A FLAT AS POSSIBLE WHERE BOTH AXLES SUPPORT THE WEIGHT.
Posted 2005-12-03 9:06 AM (#33702 - in reply to #33701) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
Originally written by IFLY on 2005-12-03 8:22 AM
THE RIGHT REAR TIRE CARRIES MORE WEIGHT THAN THE OTHER TIRES, THEREFORE IT IS THE FIRST TO BEND WHEN OVER LOADED. ALSO, THE BED OF THE DODGE PK IS VERY HIGH AND IF THE FRONT OF THE TRAILER IS TOO HIGH, IT PUTS MORE WEIGHT ON THE REAR AXLE. THE TRAILER NEEDS TO RIDE A FLAT AS POSSIBLE WHERE BOTH AXLES SUPPORT THE WEIGHT.
That's interesting. Why does the right rear tire carry more weight than say the left rear tire?
Posted 2005-12-04 10:28 AM (#33732 - in reply to #33693) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Member
Posts: 37 Location: Colorado Springs
sandyp- I'll bet your trailer has rubber torsion axles?
I had a 2H straight that bent the torsion axles, and when I took it to a trailer repair shop (NOT the trailer dealer) they replaced both axles with regular equalized spring type axles. Never had any more problems again with bent axles or blown tires. Trailer even towed better- it didn't 'tug' at the tow vehicle on concrete highway expansion joints or bridge joints.
The trailer shop owner told me the independant suspension rubber torsion axles are a very poor and weak design, and trailer mfg's use them only because they are easier to set up on the production line. The mgf's don't care about longevity or tire wear/blowouts once it leaves he lot.
Same thing with electric brakes- MUCH easier for the mfg. to set up even if it's a poor choice compared to electric over hydraulic drums. Electric over hydraulic disc brakes being far superior to anything else.
BUT it's very difficult to get these better brake systems straight from the factory.
If new trailer buyers started demanding these superior features, maybe the Mfg's would change their ways?
Posted 2005-12-05 8:30 AM (#33751 - in reply to #33717) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Member
Posts: 19
Location: Louisiana
THE RIGHT REAR CARRIES MORE WEIGHT BECAUSE THE FRONT OF MOST TRAILERS ARE A LITTLE HIGH WHERE THEY WILL BE LEVEL WHEN LOADED & THE CROWN ON THE ROAD SHIFTS THE WEIGHT TO THE RIGHT.
Posted 2005-12-05 11:00 AM (#33754 - in reply to #33732) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Location: Tuttle, OK
Originally written by roadranger on 2005-12-04 11:28 AM
The trailer shop owner told me the independant suspension rubber torsion axles are a very poor and weak design, and trailer mfg's use them only because they are easier to set up on the production line.
I respectfully disagree here. Rubber torsion axles are probably one of the best improvements ever made to trailers. I remember when they were first used (in about ‘84 for us, long before that by Airstream) – they cost more than spring and equalizer set ups – with the labor for installation included. Like all improvements, torsions were offered as an option and the public was left to decide whether they were worth the additional money – eventually, they decided that torsions were, so you now see them as standard equipment on almost all major manufacturers.
My 1985 still has them and other than bearings and brakes, I have had to do absolutely zero maintenance on them.
Originally written by roadranger on 2005-12-04 11:28 AM
The mgf's don't care about longevity or tire wear/blowouts once it leaves he lot.
I am sorry to read that you feel that way. There are a lot of us out there that truly do care. You might be surprised.
Originally written by roadranger on 2005-12-04 11:28 AM
Same thing with electric brakes- MUCH easier for the mfg. to set up even if it's a poor choice compared to electric over hydraulic drums. Electric over hydraulic disc brakes being far superior to anything else. BUT it's very difficult to get these better brake systems straight from the factory. If new trailer buyers started demanding these superior features, maybe the Mfg's would change their ways?
I do agree that hydraulic brakes are somewhat better than electrics. While the difference isn’t nearly as great as it used to be, there is a difference. Just like torsion axles, hydraulic brakes (elec/hyd or vac/hyd) are offered as an option by almost all manufacturers. Since they cost more to buy and more to install, there is an up charge. Also like the torsion axles, hydraulic brakes will probably continue to be offered as an option until the majority of our customers ask for them, and the cost, to be added as standard equipment.
As a side note - Since the debut of the electric controlled hydraulic brake, the request for the option has increased. This is probably due in part to the lack of need for the mechanical vacuum components that are required on the tow vehicle for vacuum controlled hydraulic brakes. One can add the correct electronic controller for a lot less money to numerous tow vehicles.
Posted 2005-12-06 7:57 AM (#33780 - in reply to #33751) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by IFLY on 2005-12-05 8:30 AM
THE RIGHT REAR CARRIES MORE WEIGHT BECAUSE THE FRONT OF MOST TRAILERS ARE A LITTLE HIGH WHERE THEY WILL BE LEVEL WHEN LOADED & THE CROWN ON THE ROAD SHIFTS THE WEIGHT TO THE RIGHT.
That is why we (I) load the heavy guys/gals on the left and the lighter on the right - in a straight load. I think the 60/40 fore/hind weight distribution of the horse takes care of it in a slant. Well, maybe not...
somebody (else) can do the math, but as a first approximation the stall is 11 ft long, the 60% is 4ft from the nose, the 40% is pretty much AT the right hand wall. Gee, this looks BAD ! where is the c of g of a horse ? probably less than 5 1/2 ft from it's tail.
OTOH, yes I've had one horse in each of the right hand stalls in a 4 horse head to head trailer. REAL B*ast*rd loaders and we took what opportunities we had to "just get 'em in" (-:
I know, not a "best practice", but they had to go and it wasn't a good time to make a long term investment in their trailer loading skills.
My guess: Folk DO overload their trailers and can probably get away with it MOST of the time. The times when it counts is when they find a field rock or pot hole - if the holding tank doesn't get "drugged" and take the load off the axles they can bend, tires can also suffer although they probably have a bit more margin.
Posted 2005-12-06 2:52 PM (#33801 - in reply to #33754) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Member
Posts: 37 Location: Colorado Springs
Originally written by Mr. Trailer on 2005-12-05 10:00 AM
I respectfully disagree here. Rubber torsion axles are probably one of the best improvements ever made to trailers. I remember when they were first used (in about ‘84 for us, long before that by Airstream) – they cost more than spring and equalizer set ups – with the labor for installation included. Like all improvements, torsions were offered as an option and the public was left to decide whether they were worth the additional money – eventually, they decided that torsions were, so you now see them as standard equipment on almost all major manufacturers.My 1985 still has them and other than bearings and brakes, I have had to do absolutely zero maintenance on them."
Mr. Trailer, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this.
How is an independent axle system an 'improvement' over an equalized axle system? Individual wheels get overloaded/stressed much easier when they have to carry the weight of BOTH wheels on a side, like when crossing driveway curbs,etc. Or when trailer is not towed EXACTLY level.
An equalized system will spread the weight across both wheels.
The swing arm system on the torsion axles creates a lot more leverage that bends things if you wack a curb, than a straight axle does.
The torsion axles with the 11 degree and 22 degree UP angle on the swing arms work against the laws of physics when it lifts up over a bump and the wheel assembly swings UP and FORWARD, fighting against the bump. That's what creates the 'tugging' motion when traveling down concrete expansion or bridge joints. You don't get this at all with an equalized system.
The only advantage to the torsion system is a marginally softer ride EMPTY, compared to a spring equalizer system. LOADED to capacity, the spring system is superior to the torsion system which 'bottoms out' at capacity.
Why is it that most tractor trailers are built with the equalized spring system ,and NOT torsion suspensions? Matter of fact, White trucks used to offer a rubber shear torsion suspension called Velvet Ride for a couple of years that was a failure and not offered again.
I congratulate you on your maintenance free use of your 1985 trailer, but as this post show, myself and others have had problems with the torsion axle suspensions. For heavy duty use, and I think hauling 3+ horses in a trailer falls in this category, the equalized spring suspension is superior to the torsion axle suspension. That's just MY opinion from experience as a 40+ year trailer hauler.
Posted 2005-12-06 6:00 PM (#33806 - in reply to #33801) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Location: Tuttle, OK
roadranger -
When you hit a curb, the spindle on the axle that hits that curb stands a very good chance of being bent on any type of axle, torsion, spring and equalizer, or air ride.
As far as the ride of a torsion axle, I have a copy of a study done by Utah State University - Space Dynamics Lab that compared the torsion axle to an air ride (which is actually what most tractor trucks and trailers use) - loaded and empty, using an impactograph. Obviously, air ride tested better than torsion, but close enough that they were allowed to haul an 8000# NASA telescope on a torsion axle trailer. I am a believer in the ride of a torsion axle.
I also believe that when axled properly (not under OR over axled), and towed properly (close to level - perfect is not necessary) that either torsion or spring and equalizer will do the job. If you firmly believe in a spring and equalizer system, then by all means, order all your trailers that way. My point is that if any of us say that one or the other is junk and should never be used, we are simply off the mark.
Posted 2005-12-07 2:41 PM (#33835 - in reply to #33833) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Expert
Posts: 2953 Location: North Carolina
Never one to pass on a discussion of the esoteric...
I would submit that an aeroplane acts within the laws of gravity. After all.. The flight attendants walk the aisles instead of floating. An aircraft merely has other forces acting to counter act the force of gravity.
Posted 2005-12-07 2:56 PM (#33836 - in reply to #33835) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 366 Location: Albany, Oregon
Originally written by hosspuller on 2005-12-07 12:41 PM
Never one to pass on a discussion of the esoteric...I would submit that an aeroplane acts within the laws of gravity. After all.. The flight attendants walk the aisles instead of floating. An aircraft merely has other forces acting to "counter act the force" of gravity.
"Work against"....maybe? I had plenty to say both ways on the axle issue. I decided I would stay out of it .......Now look what REG did! LOL.....
Posted 2005-12-07 11:28 PM (#33850 - in reply to #33831) Subject: RE: Bent Axles
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by xyzer on 2005-12-07 12:40 PM
Originally written by Reg on 2005-12-07 8:40 AM
Nothing - and I mean NOTHING ! "works against the laws of physics" (-:
An airplane?
Nope, it's workings are entirely conformant.
Ya KNOW my post was a tweak, right ?
Were you thinking of the following ?:
According to the laws of aerodynamics bumble bees can't fly.
They can't read, havn't studied aerodynamics, don't KNOW they can't fly, so they do it anyway.
Bent Axles
