Posted 2005-11-12 11:03 AM (#32946) Subject: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Member
Posts: 17
Location: Cheshire, Oregon
I have a horse that got impacted yesterday. After a trip to the vet, she was given an oral laxative solution by tube and we were sent home to watch and wait. No results so far. My question is the vet told me to feed her only warm water and bran mash, but she won't touch the mash or water and I am wondering if anyone has any tricks to get a fussy eater to take it in. I thought of adding apple juice or apple sauce?? Any suggestions before I haul her back to the vet? Except for a few scrapes over the years, I have had no trouble with my horses so this is new to me. Thanks in advance.
Posted 2005-11-12 12:20 PM (#32949 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
New User
Posts: 0
Location: Western performance horse Hades
Does she not want anything at all? For example, if you offered her favorite would she still try to eat it? If yes, than she's just being finiky and try pasting or the apple sauce.
However, if she's turning her nose up at everything, just get to the clinic. Sometimes when they get impacted, it backs up in their stomach that's what reflux is. She might not want to eat because of all the pressure on the stomach and small colon caused by the impaction.
Posted 2005-11-12 12:28 PM (#32950 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Lucious Chocoholic Maniac
Posts: 0
Location: Ontario,Canada
Ditto to zipper!! If shes not touching anything at all get her back asap. I knew my guy was sick when he wouldnt even take a pop tart. What should have been a mild case of impaction turned into a full blown university study on colitis x. We had a newbie, fresh from university work on him (for 3 days!!!) before she realized she couldnt handle this case and called in the head honcho. One more day and he would have been dead
Posted 2005-11-12 12:33 PM (#32951 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Regular
Posts: 96 Location: MasonDixon
Why would he tell you to feed and water her if she's still impacted? Is she dehydrated? Did the vet do an IV? Has the oral laxative worked yet? If it's been over 24 hour's, I'd sure be hauling her to a good vet, one that is set up to do surgery. NOW!!
When our mare impacted, the vet sucked everything off of her stomach...cause it sure wasn't going any where.
I don't know how impacted your mare is, but our's required surgery. The vet reported the impaction was huge. They were able to work the impaction through without doing a re-section.
Posted 2005-11-12 12:43 PM (#32952 - in reply to #32949) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Member
Posts: 14
Originally written by zipper on 2005-11-12 12:20 PM
Does she not want anything at all? For example, if you offered her favorite would she still try to eat it? If yes, than she's just being finiky and try pasting or the apple sauce. However, if she's turning her nose up at everything, just get to the clinic. Sometimes when they get impacted, it backs up in their stomach that's what reflux is. She might not want to eat because of all the pressure on the stomach and small colon caused by the impaction.
DITTO
PLEASE take this mare to the clinic and get some fluids in her
Posted 2005-11-12 2:30 PM (#32953 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Member
Posts: 17
Location: Cheshire, Oregon
Thanks to all that have responded. Here is the latest...I called the vet back...of course it is a different one because I had to get the one on call this weekend. He told me to give her another dose of Banamine and wait a couple hours as it has not yet been 24 hours since the gastric tube of laxative was given, and he says it is usually very close to 24 hours before it works. I am taking her out several times a day to graze for 10-15 minutes at a time and she willingly eats grass. He says that if no results in a couple more hours to bring her back in and he will redo the oil treatment. He was not surprised about the not eating bran mash. A fecal yesterday showed some strongids which he says could contribute to the problem. Have had two opinions as to whether or not I should give wormer ASAP or wait until this episode is over. I love it when I get different opinions all from the same hospital. This one has a very good reputation, tho. I am just keeping a close eye on her and hoping we get a good outcome.
Posted 2005-11-12 7:46 PM (#32958 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378 Location: Nebraska
At this piont the vet may not be sure of the severity and is taking a conservative approach because of the mild signs, which is appropriate. It all depends on the condition and extent of intestinal necrosis. but it should be mandatory your horse management program improve to reduce future colic episodes.
Posted 2005-11-12 11:33 PM (#32961 - in reply to #32953) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Regular
Posts: 96 Location: MasonDixon
Originally written by 3 Horse Mama on 2005-11-12 2:30 PM
Thanks to all that have responded. Here is the latest...I called the vet back...of course it is a different one because I had to get the one on call this weekend. He told me to give her another dose of Banamine and wait a couple hours as it has not yet been 24 hours since the gastric tube of laxative was given, and he says it is usually very close to 24 hours before it works. I am taking her out several times a day to graze for 10-15 minutes at a time and she willingly eats grass. He says that if no results in a couple more hours to bring her back in and he will redo the oil treatment. He was not surprised about the not eating bran mash. A fecal yesterday showed some strongids which he says could contribute to the problem. Have had two opinions as to whether or not I should give wormer ASAP or wait until this episode is over. I love it when I get different opinions all from the same hospital. This one has a very good reputation, tho. I am just keeping a close eye on her and hoping we get a good outcome.
Let us know how your horse is doing. I hope by this time your up to your knee's is poop!
Posted 2005-11-12 11:51 PM (#32963 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Regular
Posts: 96 Location: MasonDixon
We have had one mare impact colic twice. The first time, it was December. After 24 hours, she was at the vet clinic for surgery. She was very sick and stayed for 10 days. This very good vet told us to make sure we fed her a flake of alfalfa daily.
Two and half year's later, she did it again. The time of the year was summer. Within 12 hour's of showing sign's of colic, she was again in surgery. This time the vet told us to never ever feed her bermuda hay. While this mare was on pasture, she also had a 8 week old colt by her side and was getting bermuda hay along with her alfalfa.
Research has determined, in some horses, it is the major cause of impact colic because there is not very much moisture in bermuda hay. This mare's forage is now grass and Chaffhaye.
Posted 2005-11-13 10:51 AM (#32968 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Member
Posts: 17
Location: Cheshire, Oregon
Latestest update is that while waiting for the vet to return our call Saturday, we loaded the mare up into the trailer and she proceeded to poop twice in half an hour. Both were covered in oil. The vet then advised us to keep up the 3x daily walks in pasture and allow grazing for 15 minutes, and eventually add small amounts of german timothy back into her diet. I watched her off and on all night and she pooped twice more and is acting alert and much more normal, definitely wanting to eat. I am still concerned about the small quantity of water she is ingesting. I have it at room temp to slightly warm. The weather is crummy most of the time here this month so there is a lot of water on the grass, maybe that keeps her from being very thirsty?? In the 7 years we have had her, her diet of german timothy, cup of whole oats, Horse Guard and several acre pasture grazing hasn't changed much and we have had no problems. I did give her Strongid to get rid of her worms as per the vet yesterday. I had not done the big purge this fall to try and save on expenses, but ovbviously that was dumb. Live and learn. I feel as if we have dodged a bullet this time but I am concerned about the future with her. Thanks to all for the input.
Posted 2005-11-13 11:26 AM (#32970 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Regular
Posts: 96 Location: MasonDixon
I'm so glad your mare is doing better. I doubt if sane people would understand how excited horse people get when a colicky horse poops!! We point to it with as much pride as when potty training our first child.
Can you monitor how much your horse is drinking? Try flavoring it. We have one that we bought out of Montana who didn't like our Arkansas water. We tried everything from a filter to Vanilla Coke.
Posted 2005-11-14 7:06 PM (#33034 - in reply to #32994) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Regular
Posts: 87 Location: Perry, Georgia
I'm so sorry to hear of your colic episode. I have an Arab mare who has been a chronic colic problem. It's left me a bit of an expert. (I am also an around-the-clock poop watcher! People who havent been through this think I am nuts.)
It sounds like the crisis has passed (I hope so.) My guess is parasite damage or worms. Have you tried the Panacur power pac and also (very important) gotten a fecal test taken? That is a must as a starting point.
She probably has worms. In my case, my horse had a resistance to the normal wormers for strongyles (including Strongind C2x) all of the "p's". So the diligent worming I was doing was useless. I finally went to Quest Plus Gel, it cleaned her right out. I tested 10 days later, no worms. None. It took me to ask for the parasite tests and pose the issue of resistance to pyrantel tartrate. Sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands.
Every feeding she and my gelding (who has, praise God, never coliced) get 1/4 cup of vegetable oil (sunflower or safflower), I've had them on Safechoice by Nuetrena (recemmended as excellent for starch-related colic) but am looking at Triple Crown w/ rice bran (14%) since I'm not crazy about pellets.
I now add soaked beet pulp (soaked for at least 3 hours) and ALL food gets turned into a mash by pouring lukewarm water into the bucket. They also get Fastrack probiotics. Also, I now soak their hay. Down here in Georgia we have a big problem with sand colic, another thing you might want to look into.
Keep up the rotational worming and keep their diet high in fiber. I hope some of this advice helps. It's my guess if I got to the bottom of her parasite problem much earlier, I would not have had to learn so much the hard way.
Posted 2005-11-15 1:37 PM (#33066 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Member
Posts: 17
Location: Cheshire, Oregon
I don't think we are out of the woods yet, with this horse. Vet says she should have passed a "huge" amount of soft stool by now. She is regularly passing smaller amounts of stool, but no large bulk, which would indicate that the impaction has passed. She is eating grass well, small amounts of timothy and small amounts of water. I have tried all the suggestions from this site on getting her to drink more, not much change. She perks up some with Banamine but just not her usual self. I have an appointment to take her back in today. I will redo the fecal test and be sure we addressed that sufficiently, otherwise I not sure what else to do. I appreciate all the suggestions.
Posted 2005-11-15 7:49 PM (#33081 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378 Location: Nebraska
Can you hear gut sounds in all quadrants of the stomach, what do you hear and how often, push in on the gut in the high locations and does you hand get pushed out from the gut movements. This will tell you how the gut is responsding.
Posted 2005-11-15 10:41 PM (#33090 - in reply to #33081) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Member
Posts: 17
Location: Cheshire, Oregon
Gut sounds are still reduced, acording to vet visit today. He tubed her again, gave her more mineral oil and electrolytes and did a rectal. He says she is clear as far as he can reach now which is better than Friday, when she was definitly blocked. He also took a blood sample just to make sure no underlying problem. She is passing more normal looking stools but still less than normal amount. He thinks she is clear but not eating enough to get gut really going again. Plan is to try half feed tonight and full tomorrow and see if she gets achy again. We'll see.
Posted 2005-11-15 11:27 PM (#33091 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Regular
Posts: 96 Location: MasonDixon
It seem's like I read somewhere that heavy tape worm infestation would cause a blockage. Most wormer's don't get tape worm's. You have to use Zimecterin Gold by Merial.
Another thing, since she's been oiled twice, you might ask your vet about giving her some Fastrack or Probios. These are feed additives to put the good bacteria back in and helps digestion. Get's their gust to working like it should again. The Fastrack we have used is a powder (sold in 5# bag) and Probios is a paste.
To get more water in her, I'd turn her feed to slush and even wet the hay. If she grazes, spray that with water. We did that with that Montana mare.
I know your probably at your wit's end. Shame you can't give her chicken soup...that cure's most everything!
Posted 2005-11-16 3:03 PM (#33134 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Regular
Posts: 87 Location: Perry, Georgia
Horse mama, I'm so sorry to hear about your colic. They are such a nightmare. It does sound like she's doing better though.
How old is she? How much does she weigh and how much grain do you feed a day. You say this is the first time she's coliced so I really hope its an isolated problem. I found there are 5 main causes:
1) worms
2) change in weather
3) wrong grain or grass
4) overfeeding- of course, the old round bale problem or they get into something or they are getting too much food to pass.
5) not enough water.
6) oh yeah, one more thing: sand. Do you live in the Southeast or a sandy area?
I hope you'll tell us what the results of her fecal tests are. If you suspect tapeworm, might I recommend Equimax. It has more of the needed ingredient than Ivamectrim plus.
Also, if you do find it is worms I suggest just using a Panacur Power pac, that will get rid of everything. Some worms are so microscopic they cant be picked up in a test.
In the meanwhile, try soaking her hay in water for at least 3 hours before feeding, put a little sea salt (not iodized!) in her grain, about 1-2 teaspoons- it will make her drink more water and if you want to share what you are feeding her she may need a new feed given the change in temperature or her particular age.
I hate colic so much. It is one of the worst things us horsey moms have to endure.
I hope this helps. If we keep the dialogue going, we should find a solution. I find vets are not terribly helpful in treating the cause, just quick to recommend surgery after the fact. Unless she has twisted a gut I see no reason for surgery. She may have a small ileal opening which means she gets impacted easier, that's why making a mash out of her feed is a good idea or feeding small portions 3 times a day.
Posted 2005-11-16 6:33 PM (#33144 - in reply to #33136) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Regular
Posts: 87 Location: Perry, Georgia
Horsemom,
I wanted to add one more point but when I hit reply it disappeared. Your vet should have put the mineral oil through the first time. I don't mean to be down on your vet but it doesnt sound like he/she is handling this situation well.
Did he/she intubate, give her banamine and flush with at least one gallon of mineral oil? If not, imo, she wasn't treated properly. Also, telling you to feed her was the wrong advice. They need to not eat until you are sure everything passes. At that point you gradually start feeding them their normal rations in a mash (start with a handful, then increase to a scoop for their next feeding, next feeding increase a bit more and so on) until you are sure they are passing everything normally. It's usually about a 3 day process before they are allowed to be eating normally.
Also still curious as to the answers to my last post: how old, how much does she weigh and what/how much does she eat?
Posted 2005-11-16 9:47 PM (#33154 - in reply to #33144) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Member
Posts: 17
Location: Cheshire, Oregon
In answer to your questions, yes she was tubed twice with mineral oil, given banamine, we waited to feed her, tried the bran mash which she won't eat. She is 1000 lbs., 7 1/2 years old and is fed a fleck of German Timothy hay twice a day along with 1/2 cup whole oats in with her Horse Guard. Plus she is on pasture most of the year except in the middle of winter. My first reply also disappeared...into the unknown.
Posted 2005-11-16 10:07 PM (#33159 - in reply to #32946) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Location: KY
I use the Combo Care moxidectin/praziquantel when I suspect tapeworms or on a new to us horse. Since your horse is used to whole oats, maybe she would eat some nice warm wet oatmeal? That might be more appetizing to her than the bran. Hope things are going better for both of you. This is such a troubling ailment.
Posted 2005-11-17 8:03 AM (#33166 - in reply to #33159) Subject: RE: Bran mash for an impacted horse
Regular
Posts: 87 Location: Perry, Georgia
rose, I like the combo cares, too. I just used Quest Plus Gel and got a completely negative reading for any worms. There is however a lot of controversy surrounding the moxidectin (undeserved in my opinion but worth noting.) I wouldnt want an owner to use it without hearing both sides. Also, given that Horse Mom's mare hasnt been fully diagnosed yet it's probably better not to use it on any horse that might be ill.
Bran mash for an impacted horse
We point to it with as much pride as when potty training our first child.
. Your vet should have put the mineral oil through the first time. I don't mean to be down on your vet but it doesnt sound like he/she is handling this situation well.
