Posted 2005-10-28 9:55 AM (#32454 - in reply to #32452) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455
Location: Ontario - east of TO
Congrats
Umm... not to be a bubble burster - but your first for is a 2yr old stallion? I hope you have knowledgeable help with you. Young horses alone are a handful add in the stallion factor and you will have about 3 hands full. Just be safe!
Posted 2005-10-28 10:36 AM (#32457 - in reply to #32454) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Regular
Posts: 93
Location: Northwest Indiana
I know some people will think I am crazy, but I have my fiance' and her mother who have had horses for 15 years now to help me with him. Plus he is a very calm guy. When we went to see him for the first time it was at night in a small barn that had a mare in full heat and he was not at all acting up. Went back to see him the next day in the morning and still just as calm. And I can always have him gelded.
Posted 2005-10-28 11:09 AM (#32459 - in reply to #32457) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1011
Location: Oregon
IMO, unless you are planing to use him for breeding AND have the facilities and insurance to do it, I would be making a call to my vet first thing Monday morning to make an appointment to have him gelded. It could get expensive too, cost my friend almost $900. All it could take is the wind blowing in the wrong direction and you could have a "full blown stud" on your hands. Having horse experience does not mean stud experience. Even after 20+ years experience with horses, I find some studs very challenging. Don't get me wrong, I have seen the gentlemen studs, but that is after hours of constant work by some knowledgable person. I have worked with this stud on occasion (he is coming two) and he is starting to figure out what he really is. His attitude is changing and is becoming a handful. Gelding is not an option for this horse since the owner is going to use him for breeding. I also told her that if she started to breed him before he has his ground manners down, that I would not work with this horse anymore. I am sorry if I sound harsh, that's not my intent. I just hope you know what you could be getting in to. I wish you luck and happiness with your new horse.
Posted 2005-10-28 12:48 PM (#32462 - in reply to #32457) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Member
Posts: 11
Just my opinion, but there are very few horses in a breed that should be left a stud. Unless the blood lines are impeccable, and conformation outstanding for a particular job, the cut needs to be made. Another issue, ask yourself the question, "Why would a stranger trust their mare to me for a breeding?" Years ago, when looking for a mate for my mare, I drove to many farms, passed on a nationally known horse in particular, because I could not get the answers I wanted for specific breeding questions of my maiden mare. (As in, oh, if there is a problem, we just tie them to the telephone pole and let the stud rape 'em). Smarter now, I do not own stock I would breed. The cost of breeding, caring for mare, possible complications, and $$ to care for mare and foal, weaning, etc., is cost prohibitive for me when I can buy a nice yearling for my pleasure riding purposes far cheaper than breed, raise to a year old, then train. Better yet, I can buy an extremely well broke 4 year old ranch horse, haul it East, for a total of $4000, which I did a year ago this month! He is well trained and ready to ride!!!
Posted 2005-10-28 2:48 PM (#32473 - in reply to #32452) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 350
Location: Newton, NJ
I have to agree with Krys and Brenda - owning a stallion is not an easy task. Unless you plan on developing a true breeding program, you may be asking for trouble. Trail riding could become a real challenge. Even if your stallion is well behaved, there are mares that are not well mannered and can pose a danger to your boy. I heard a story about a mare who tried to jump through two electric fences to get into a field with a stallion and was very badly injured in the process. Girls can get aggressive too when they really want some lovin'!
In addition, I have been told by several breeders that a gelding will usually grow bigger than a stallion because all his "energy" is not channeled into his hormones.
All this said, I've met some very well mannered stud horses who were easy to work with and no problem at all. I hope you get this lucky if you decide to keep him intact. I do love a grulla ...
Posted 2005-10-28 6:28 PM (#32479 - in reply to #32452) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Veteran
Posts: 127
Location: PA
I have to agree with the others, a good stallion does make a great gelding. It is much cheaper to have him gelded then to pay medical bills for yourself and any other folks that may be around when he acts out. Stallions can go through the best of fences and break down stall doors to get at a mare. They are also very jealous of any other male horse in the vicinity, even a gelding. If you start breeding them it gets worse. Stallions cannot ever be trusted, you have to be on your guard at all times around them. I would suspect that in the next 6 months you will be surprised by his change in behavior. Unless you are very experienced, very strong and firm with a stallion either you or someone else will get hurt. It's not worth it........ Stallions are lousy on trail rides (with a few, rare exceptions) because you cannot relax for a minute in the saddle and no one wants to ride with you. Just my opinion...I speak from experience. Good Luck with your silver grulla. Let us know how you progress.
Posted 2005-10-29 5:38 PM (#32494 - in reply to #32452) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Expert
Posts: 1989
Location: South Central OK
If he's good now I have some questions:
1. Was he run to death before you got there?
2. Has he ever been allowed to touch the soft skin of a mare?
3. Was he drugged and did you have a blood screen for it? The really good drugs work for up to a month and can only be found by a blood screen.
4. Are you keeping on your place?
5. Does your facility have stud capability?
6. Are you crazy? Studs should only be handled by VERY EXPERIENCED horse people. They must mind their manners to a fault! Give a stud an inch and you'll be travelling miles to fix yourself/fence/himself/legal stuff...etc.
If your friends have horse experience it does not mean they have stud experience, the two are not mutually inclusive. Since you have never handled a stud much less a horse I'd have that boy gelded before you bring him home. Sometimes cutting them late does not fix attitude problems...I have had many experiences with these types of geldings and they are not worth the food they eat! Several have been sold as "children's horses" when they should have been taken to the sale barn instead.
Most places won't allow studs on the grounds or at trail rides. You'll be a social outcast.
Posted 2005-11-21 2:19 PM (#33303 - in reply to #32452) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Regular
Posts: 93
Location: Northwest Indiana
I'll give everybody and update.
Bloodlines are excellent, he comes from two different foundation lines if I remember correctly. I can have him registered in foundation, buckskin and aqha. His attitude is the best we have ever seen. I took him to the trainer last week, The trainer has said he double checked to see that he was a stallion because he has never had one behave as well as he has. He does not have to be lounged for an hour before you can teach him anything. He has not bucked or nipped. He does have all the dun factors plus he has a belly stripe. He is coming along very well according to the trainer, and he has reccommended leaving him as a stallion as long as his attitude does not change.
Posted 2005-11-22 2:03 PM (#33330 - in reply to #32452) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Veteran
Posts: 127
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Just another thing to throw in.......are you planning on breeding him? If so, is your facility equipt for it? Are you knowledgeable enough to handle the breeding process, breeding contracts, incoming mares, etc? What do you plan on doing with the horse for the long term?
If you do not plan on breeding OR are not equipt to breed, there is no reason to keep him as a stud. If you are planning on breeding him AND have the facilities to do so, then you should keep him as a stud. Just remember, you are dealing with a 1200# (or more) animal that has survival instincts......one of them being to perpetuate his "herd". A stallion needs special care, handling, and a facility much different than what you would need for a mare or gelding. Although he is very well behaved right now, that may not always be the case and you need to be prepared for his "stud" behavior to come out. I read an article one time about a seasoned horsewoman with a "very gentle" stud that had always been well behaved. She had raised him from a baby. Well, one day something happened and he grabbed the woman by the throat and crushed her esophogus. Someone else found her dead in the barn with her stallion calmly standing in his opened stall.
Posted 2005-11-22 3:36 PM (#33339 - in reply to #33330) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Elite Veteran
Posts: 824
Location: Kansas
All good points. We had a young man lose his leg a couple of years ago because he was riding out in the country, let his horse sniff the horse on the other side. That horse, a stallion, grabbed him, drug him through barb wire fence (a whole other tirade) and he ended up losing his leg at 8 years old.
Posted 2005-11-22 8:18 PM (#33353 - in reply to #32452) Subject: RE: Exciting Weekend!
Veteran
Posts: 168
Location: Stem NC
I have noticed over the years that the horses left as stallions are usually owned by someone who does not have the knowledge to realize a gelding is a better buy than a stallion. He is easier and cheaper to support.
For a stallion to get enough breedings for a profit he would most likely have to be trained, shown, and kept in a professional breeding barn. Those costs come high in the horse world. The beginning horseman doesn't realize all this and is very impressed that they have a stallion. To us old horse people we know better.
I think this is a case of you can't teach a young dog a trick.