Posted 2005-09-12 12:34 PM (#30221 - in reply to #30220) Subject: RE: Hold onto your wallets/checkbooks
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455 Location: Ontario - east of TO
Originally written by hosspuller on 2005-09-12 1:09 PM
We won't see the benefits for years. The value of higher energy prices is much more energy conservation. We will learn to do more with less. It's not easy or simple. But it is one area we have an advantage over the rest of the world. Our product cycle is shorter than most. We have to compete with the world. Energy is one product that is globally priced. It is the same for the low wage countries as it is for us. Running a 6000 pound SUV ten miles to get a qt of milk is wasteful. Using a 2000 compact car is still wasteful, but more conservative.
Auh, but that is not true at all... Energy - AKA fuel prices are different all over the world. North America is smack in the middle - Europe being the highest and Oil producing counties being the lowest (Can't remember which one was lowest but it think the number was 5 cents a litre).
The prices are high were the people would pay it - that simple.... any good business person will charge what the market will pay... plain and simple. Upping gas prices is a good business move - you make more money that way - and doing it at a time of chaos somewhere gives the public a reason for it - this one was just not very well planned.
I'm sure this argument was also used in the 70's when the last big gas price jump hit - and yes cars got smaller for a few years but then they got bigger than ever. So obviously the theory is not exactly true.
Posted 2005-09-12 12:42 PM (#30223 - in reply to #30221) Subject: RE: Hold onto your wallets/checkbooks
Expert
Posts: 2953 Location: North Carolina
Originally written by MBRA518 on 2005-09-12 11:34 AM
I'm sure this argument was also used in the 70's when the last big gas price jump hit - and yes cars got smaller for a few years but then they got bigger than ever. So obviously the theory is not exactly true.
Thanks for backing up my point. I remember when small cars were suddenly "IN" during the 70's Then gas prices stayed about the same till the few last months. Inflation made the price of gas cheap. I read that $3.00 was today's inflation adjusted price for 1.00 gas during the 70's oil embargo.
Small cars and hybrids are "IN" today. Just like the late 70's ... except we didn't have hybrids then. Just poorly made and designed small american cars. Vega, Pinto, need I say more? The import cars ate our lunch then. Seems like the import hybrids are about to do the same again. Hybrid Ford SUV ... Hah ! Duh!!!
Except I don't believe the hybrid fits my needs. I have doubts about battery life cycle. A compact car is still the better choice for me.
Posted 2005-09-13 11:45 AM (#30281 - in reply to #30223) Subject: RE: Hold onto your wallets/checkbooks
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455 Location: Ontario - east of TO
Originally written by hosspuller on 2005-09-12 1:42 PM
Originally written by MBRA518 on 2005-09-12 11:34 AM
I'm sure this argument was also used in the 70's when the last big gas price jump hit - and yes cars got smaller for a few years but then they got bigger than ever. So obviously the theory is not exactly true.
Thanks for backing up my point. I remember when small cars were suddenly "IN" during the 70's Then gas prices stayed about the same till the few last months. Inflation made the price of gas cheap. I read that $3.00 was today's inflation adjusted price for 1.00 gas during the 70's oil embargo.
Small cars and hybrids are "IN" today. Just like the late 70's ... except we didn't have hybrids then. Just poorly made and designed small american cars. Vega, Pinto, need I say more? The import cars ate our lunch then. Seems like the import hybrids are about to do the same again. Hybrid Ford SUV ... Hah ! Duh!!!
Except I don't believe the hybrid fits my needs. I have doubts about battery life cycle. A compact car is still the better choice for me.
Edited to correct syntax & add some rant.
Auh but Hybrids (toyota's specifically) gets worse gas milage than a VW Jetta TDI... and even the Chevy Impala gets over 30MPG which is all most compacts get anyway.
I honestly do not think cars will get smaller - MPG may get better over all, what with most companies coming up with some sort of displacement on demand idea that only uses as much engine power as you need at any given time. But then they more electronics you add to a car the less likely it is that they will be around for long as cost of repairs skyrocket - you know most electronic equipment is not worth fixing as it's cheaper to buy new - I think the more complicated the vehicles become the sooner they will be having a trip to the junk yard.... sorry - getting a little off topic there....
They've already built a Chevy truck hybrid, apparently it will be able to perform as well as a conventional truck - but how economical will that be???? Purchase price needs to be factored into the equation too - no point saving $1000 a year in gas if you pay $10,000 more for the vehicle. Most of us do not keep vehicles for over 10 years (any maybe these electronic laden ones will not last that long anyway) - even then once you factor in interest on that $10,000 up front you'd need to own it more than 10 years to actually save any money - or even brake even (see I do understand econ). Most Hybrids come at quite a premium and that will certainly keep some people away. I just don't vehicles changing all that much.
Posted 2005-09-13 12:02 PM (#30283 - in reply to #30281) Subject: RE: Hold onto your wallets/checkbooks
Regular
Posts: 93 Location: Northwest Indiana
MBRA,
They've already built a Chevy truck hybrid, apparently it will be able to perform as well as a conventional truck
Went to GM website and compared the hybrid vs. regular Gas mileage was nearly identical the hybrid had 1mpg better. Looking at the towing specs. The hybrid has a higher towing limit, but the payload is nearly 500#'s less. For the extra money you have to pay don't think a hybrid is worth it. Maybe the idea appeals to some but give me the old fashioned proven technology.
Posted 2005-09-13 2:20 PM (#30297 - in reply to #30283) Subject: RE: Hold onto your wallets/checkbooks
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 455 Location: Ontario - east of TO
Originally written by santelikk on 2005-09-13 1:02 PM
MBRA,
They've already built a Chevy truck hybrid, apparently it will be able to perform as well as a conventional truck
Went to GM website and compared the hybrid vs. regular Gas mileage was nearly identical the hybrid had 1mpg better. Looking at the towing specs. The hybrid has a higher towing limit, but the payload is nearly 500#'s less. For the extra money you have to pay don't think a hybrid is worth it. Maybe the idea appeals to some but give me the old fashioned proven technology.
Posted 2005-09-13 3:32 PM (#30315 - in reply to #30297) Subject: RE: Hold onto your wallets/checkbooks
Expert
Posts: 2953 Location: North Carolina
Originally written by MBRA518 on 2005-09-13 1:20 PM
Originally written by santelikk on 2005-09-13 1:02 PM
MBRA,
They've already built a Chevy truck hybrid, apparently it will be able to perform as well as a conventional truck
Went to GM website and compared the hybrid vs. regular Gas mileage was nearly identical the hybrid had 1mpg better. Looking at the towing specs. The hybrid has a higher towing limit, but the payload is nearly 500#'s less. For the extra money you have to pay don't think a hybrid is worth it. Maybe the idea appeals to some but give me the old fashioned proven technology.
That's exactly my point!
Sound like we all agree on the hybrids. I tend to keep a vehicle a long time. My last daily driver car was 18 years old. I don't expect the hybrids battery pack to last that long. Based on my metal hydride cordless drill, I'd say 5 years is their typical life... I wonder what the car companies are saying about the battery pack life.
Another random thought on towing. If the hybrid truck has a higher tow rating yet 500# less payload (Likely battery weight) doesn't that say the truck engineers think a heavier vehicle can tow more, all else being equal ?
Hold onto your wallets/checkbooks
). Most Hybrids come at quite a premium and that will certainly keep some people away. I just don't vehicles changing all that much.