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question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs

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FS2
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2005-05-14 8:58 PM (#25125)
Subject: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


Member


Posts: 5

Does anyone have test data that supports the idea of weight distribution hitches compromising the braking ability of tow vehicles with anti-lock brakes? I recently read a personal account of an individual who conducted their own testing, he found that "WD hitch actually decreases braking ability by not allowing full weight transfer to the tow vehicles rear wheels from the trailer in braking." I'm interested in the opinion of Mr. Trailer as well as any others. Thanks!
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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-05-14 10:13 PM (#25128 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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Location: sc
id like to read that account. is it on the web?
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FS2
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2005-05-15 7:57 AM (#25133 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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Posts: 5

Here's it is, about the 13th post down. http://chronicleforums.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/5566064631/m/980207685...
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Jbsny
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2005-05-15 9:03 AM (#25136 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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This is a very interesting development.  I have a 2002 GMC 2500HD and I put the WDH on for my much longer and heavier trailer that I just bought. I still use the regular hitch for my lighter trailers.

Will be interested in following this thread as it seems the other drivers get worse and worse and time evolves.

Jbsny

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-05-15 11:01 AM (#25138 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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well that was interesting, incomplete but interesting.  i fail to even see the line of thought this guy is on though.  personally i want the weight distributed equally all the time, including brakeing, which is why i use a WDH. what is his facination with the rear axle? heres a couple things ive observed:

1.  its rare to find anyone that says anything bad about WDH.

2. does he even know how to use and set up a WDH? hes apparently biased against them. i see quite a few improperly adjusted WDH out there.

3. 1 1/2 runs does not a test make.

4.  why was he worried about ABS "going crazy", sounds like it was doing its job to me.

5.  and if he actually thinks he can stop the rig with less brake pressure at the pedal, compared to the ABS cycling several times a second with the ability to modulate each brake, i dare say hes on crack.

 6. and the reference to using air bags as opposed to WDH implys an incomplete understanding of how a WDH works.



Edited by chadsalt 2005-05-15 3:05 PM
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-05-15 2:49 PM (#25140 - in reply to #25138)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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What Chadsalt said.
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Bill W
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2005-05-16 5:27 AM (#25159 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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What Reg said!
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-05-16 6:51 AM (#25160 - in reply to #25159)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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What Bill W said.

Additionally:
For an experiement to be valid the experiment designer cannot also be the lab rat.
The results of experiments are suspect where participants undergo a learning curve.
He had preconceived conclusions for his "experiment".

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FS2
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2005-05-16 5:11 PM (#25186 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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Posts: 5

Thank you for the replies. I agree the tester seemed biased against WDHs from the start but it raised questions for someone ignorant about how it all works. I plan on buying a setup for my BP. Thanks again!
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tom king
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2005-05-18 12:49 PM (#25270 - in reply to #25186)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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Posts: 2

Location: henrico, nc

Hello, Tom King here -the one who did the "test" in question. Agreed that this was a one time test with my own stuff since I happened to have a WD hitch that came with the RV. Anyone else can of course do their own test with their own truck and trailer. It's a simple matter to do the two with or without the WD hitch. I was not interested in using my trucks to do any more heavily loaded panic braking unless necessary.

 I concede that it may not only be a problem involving anti-lock braking systems. Since the rear tires of the truck were "chirping" during the braking test with the WD hitch it seemed like the anti-lock braking system was cutting out the braking to those wheels pretty much constantly since they kept wanting to skid. In the stop without the WD bars there was very little noise from the tires and the stop seemed uneventful. It may simply be a function of the WD hitch hindering compression of the rear suspension of the tow vehicle thus lessening the braking contribution of 25% of the rubber on the road. I remember the first time I saw ads for Weight Distribution hitches they showed front wheel drive cars (I think Olds Tornado) hitched to a boat with the rear tires of the car removed. It seems to me that may be effectively what's happening with the braking difference-seriously lessening the contribution of the rear wheels of the tow vehicle during hard braking. Of course my 2 single stops are not a conclusive final answer. But I've never seen it written up anywhere else. Should we expect that the hitch manufacturers have already done this and if so what have we been told about it? True I believed that the results would be the case when I started. I did not expect the difference to be as large as it was. I would not expect the difference to be as large with every combination of truck and trailer. What is the difference with your rig? Are you content to believe that there just is no difference?

I have nothing to gain or lose either way.   Let's see some more results guys.  I'm not impressed but just sitting around talking.

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tom king
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2005-05-18 1:03 PM (#25271 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


New User


Posts: 2

Location: henrico, nc

Oh, I thought it would be only proper to address these comments directly.

1.  its rare to find anyone that says anything bad about WDH.

I, agree.

2. does he even know how to use and set up a WDH? hes apparently biased against them. i see quite a few improperly adjusted WDH out there.

Yes, probably.  The RV I bought still had not only all the warranty cards (from everything from the AC to the WD hitch) never filled out and sent in but also all the instructions to everything still sealed in their original plastic wrappers.  Set according to instructions.

3. 1 1/2 runs does not a test make.

Agreed not conclusive but all I wanted to subject my 1/2 ton truck to.

4.  why was he worried about ABS "going crazy", sounds like it was doing its job to me.

Yes it sounded like it was doing it's job to me too but it also seemed like it negated any addition of the rear wheels into the braking effort.  I feel certain that the anti-lock was also called on in the stop without the Wd as their was little noise from the tires.   My suspicion was that the rear suspension was compressed enough for effective braking of the truck's rear wheels without WD and not with WD.

5.  and if he actually thinks he can stop the rig with less brake pressure at the pedal, compared to the ABS cycling several times a second with the ability to modulate each brake, i dare say hes on crack.

Not on crack.   My idea of the test was not to see how short I could get the rig to stop depending on driver skill but in a full on panic stop.  It matters not if I would do any stop in that manner but surely there are drivers out there pulling something that would.

 6. and the reference to using air bags as opposed to WDH implys an incomplete understanding of how a WDH works.

I believe I understand how it works pretty good.  But it my understanding matters not in whether it effects braking or not.

 

 

 

Not impressed guys.

 

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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-05-18 4:11 PM (#25279 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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WRT the WDH ad of a Buick Riviera (or Olds Toronado, essentaily the same car) pulling a trailer with the car's rear wheels removed - I remember that. It was before ABS (on American cars, although I think some Mercs already had a Bosch system as an option).
I suspect that they didn't try any panic stops with the rig in that configuration (-: It was an AD ! Just and AD.

Not here to impress, not impressed either.
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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-05-18 7:14 PM (#25288 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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i wasnt aware i was trying to impress anyone,  if i had been id at least have put a nice shirt on.

what does the oldsmobile commercial have to do with this discussion?  if the rear wheels are not in contact with the ground, i would have thought it goes without saying, the WDH is improperly adjusted.  are you implying when im hooked to my trailer with my WDH i could remove my rear wheels? i could give it a try, however  im not going to fold my truck in half just to make a point.

ill use my little rig as an example,  the tongue weight is a little over 700 pounds.  w/o the WDH my bumper is pushed way down (around 7 inches)with basically the full 700 on the rear axle. with the WDH about half (id have to go dig up my numbers to be exact but youll get my point) is "distributed" to the front axle which in turn levels my vehicle. during brakeing weight is still transferred, however it is to both axles. i dont understand how you see the WDH lifting the rear of the vehicle while breaking. 

my rig stops well with little wheel lock on the truck or trailer.  it would take an extremly clean piece of road to get 4 axles to a stop with no lockup of any kind.  id give a hard stop w/o WDH a try, but im pretty sure of the results.  ive only pulled this trailer w/o WDH one time, and i dont intend to do it again. my little truck is really light in the front w/o a WDH.  BTW in case youre not familiar, (and kids dont try this at home) i pull a 3500#empty/6000#loaded 2h slant w/dress BP with a 2002 chevy trailblazer,  equal-i-zer WDH, prodigy brake controller.  yes yes i know.

what was the type and tongue weight of your test RV?



Edited by chadsalt 2005-05-18 7:22 PM
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rotag
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2005-05-19 12:05 AM (#25297 - in reply to #25125)
Subject: RE: question about anti-lock brakes and WDHs


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Posts: 171
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Location: Liberty Hill Texas
the tires should chirp in a panic stop. As the speed of the tire is slowing and friction causes chirping. now if its a constant squell then there is a problem.
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