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COLORADO WILD HORSES

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2012-11-14 3:38 PM (#148314)
Subject: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/14/15165778-wild-horses-buyer-being-investigated-by-colorado-federal-agency-blm?lite
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Gone
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2012-11-15 7:56 AM (#148324 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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I think it is sad, incredibly sad. I truly would like to see some wild horses before they are wiped out.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2012-11-15 10:02 AM (#148328 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES



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They have not been wiped out. They are all over the place out here in the west.

It's pretty easy to find and watch them.  Yes the BLM is removing lots of animals because the herds have over populated for the area. Remember out in these high desert area, it takes over 300 acre per animal to feed them.

 And if you mare is in season, Just hope she doesn't get drove off and stolen from your camp site

Drive down most back country roads and you can spot herds of mustangs or donkeys



Edited by Painted Horse 2012-11-15 10:03 AM
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2012-11-15 4:01 PM (#148336 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES



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I found it interesting that another article has arisen from this same issue

 

FOUNTAIN, Colorado – It was...

Election Day and an enthusiastic gathering of Obama supporters had gathered. Dave Phillips a reporter for the Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph had just finished an interview with Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar about his controversial policies for managing America’s wild horse populations. He thought he was done. Secretary Salazar was not. Just after Salazar answered the final questions about the future safety of wild horses and he turned to leave the interview, he unexpectedly moved towards Phillips and advised him, “If you set me up like this again, I’ll punch you out.”

Others standing nearby were stunned including Ginger Kathrens, Executive Director of the Cloud Foundation, a Colorado-based wild horse advocacy organization. Kathrens said “I was stunned by the Secretary’s rude and clearly hostile comment toward Dave.”

Kathrens added, “ Salazar walked past me, refused to shake my hand, and told me, ‘You know, you should never do that.” It was unclear to Kathrens what he meant. “These threats would have been inappropriate coming from anyone, but the fact that it came out of the mouth of the Secretary of the Interior is alarming,” stated Kathrens. “I can’t believe that a top official in Obama’s cabinet could be so defensive.”

Phillips’ interview with Salazar was a follow-up to a story he had written in September about the sale of wild horses to Tom Davis, a Colorado killer buyer who purchased over 1,700 wild horses from government holding facilities. The horses ended up in south Texas and it is believed they were trucked over the border to Mexican slaughterhouses. Secretary Salazar acknowledged that an investigation of Davis’ activities is currently underway.

Salazar’s anti-wild horse stance came to light in 2004 during his successful run for the U.S. Senate. After a town hall meeting in Greeley, Colorado, wild horse advocate Barbara Flores asked him what he thought about our wild horses. Candidate Salazar responded, “They don’t belong on public lands.” Salazar vacated his Senate seat in 2008 to take his current position as Secretary of the Interior.

The BLM removes far more horses from their legally designated home ranges than can be adopted out to the public. The massive roundups have resulted in the stockpiling of animals in government facilities and privately contracted ranches. Nearly twice as many wild horses are housed in these costly holding operations than currently roam free, leaving most wild herds under populated and vulnerable to inbreeding and die-off due to a lack of genetic diversity.

“You know, this isn’t just about wild horses,” explains Kathrens. “America needs leaders in Washington, and the President needs cabinet members who respect citizens, respect the laws, value discussion and working toward mutual solutions. Ken Salazar displayed none of this on Tuesday.”
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Phoresic
Reg. May 2010
Posted 2012-11-15 6:35 PM (#148338 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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Salazar and Davis are neighbors and are said to have "ties".  More than 1,700 wild horses taken by one person?  This is corruption.  How much would he get per horse if he took them to slaughter in Mexico?
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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2012-11-15 7:48 PM (#148343 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES




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Location: KY
probably not enuf to pay for the fuel
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Phoresic
Reg. May 2010
Posted 2012-11-15 8:38 PM (#148346 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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I'm sure it is considerably more than the cost of fuel.  They were paying a few hundred dollars each for the horses at auction and then transporting them and making a profit - so wild horses wouldn't be less than that. So, 1700 horses a few hundred thousand dollars?

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Phoresic
Reg. May 2010
Posted 2012-11-15 9:03 PM (#148349 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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I looked up a Colorado killer auction and the price is about .30 to .35 per pound so an average horse must bring a profit even after the killer pays $350. That provides a baseline of 350 x 1700 = $595,000 and I know sometime they bid a lot more than that so there has to be a profit well above that even considering expenses and gas. I think they were selling wild horses for virtually nothing so that's some pretty good profit there. So if they usually make say 60 on a horse that they pay the 350 for - say they are making 400 profit on a horse and it gets to $680,000 for 1,700 horse. 
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Phoresic
Reg. May 2010
Posted 2012-11-15 9:09 PM (#148350 - in reply to #148328)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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Originally written by Painted Horse on 2012-11-15 10:02 AM

They have not been wiped out. They are all over the place out here in the west.

It's pretty easy to find and watch them.  Yes the BLM is removing lots of animals because the herds have over populated for the area. Remember out in these high desert area, it takes over 300 acre per animal to feed them.

 And if you mare is in season, Just hope she doesn't get drove off and stolen from your camp site

Drive down most back country roads and you can spot herds of mustangs or donkeys

Where do you often see wild horses in Colorado - or Utah even? Thanks.

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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2012-11-15 11:25 PM (#148352 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES




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Location: KY

hmmmmmm  my calculator says if $60 per head profit, then total profit on 1,700 head of horses would be $102,000.

I doubt the Mexican slaughterhouses are paying upwards of $410 per head, especially since the meat cannot be exported to Europe or Asia.

If I have offended, I apologize.

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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2012-11-15 11:34 PM (#148353 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES




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Location: KY

I hear there are feral herds forming all along the east coast states as people are simply turning them out.  Also heard there are loose horses in the Smoky Mountains and other national parks, same reason.

 

 

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Phoresic
Reg. May 2010
Posted 2012-11-16 12:41 AM (#148354 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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Oh, I wasn't offended.  I was just suprised at the idea that the killer buyers are not in the business for a profit and that they lose money when they don't make enough to pay for fuel expenses.

My numbers are the 350 (price normally paid at auction for slaughter horses) plus a guess on the normal profit if they pay for the horse, less a nominal amount I have been told was probably paid for the mustangs) 50 which equals 400.  Then I multiplied that 400 by the number of horses to arrive at my number.  I don't know that it's accurate, but it's probably not too far off. 

I don't see this as an issue of being pro or anti slaughter, but one of a corrupt government official giving a sweetheart deal to his friend.  They both appear to be violating the law, and the one is "investigating" the other.  Government corruption should be stopped when it is discovered whether you support horse slaughter ore not.

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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2012-11-16 1:36 PM (#148372 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES




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Location: KY

Horses are not bringing even $350 at auctions around here unless they are nice and broke to ride.  Minis are going for $25 to $50.  It is awful.

I totally agree with you that govt corruption must be stopped......

And the govt is 2-faced.....the BLM is rounding up with helicopters, using electric cattle prods and so forth.....while the USDA is hopping up and down on FLAT SHOD walking horses in addition to performance walking horses.  Makes no sense to me.

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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2012-11-16 2:06 PM (#148373 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES



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BTW, I'm not defending what the guy did. 1700 mustangs to one indivdual really does point at some kind of break in the system.

But the BLM is really struggling to get ride of excess mustangs.  Folks are willing to adopt young mustangs and work with them. But older horses stand in holding facilities across the country. My neighbor used to manage the Heriman facility here in Utah and had over 400 mustangs that he was feeding and caring for.  You can adopt a mustang for $125 and take a second for $50 equals about $200 for two mustangs or a $100 per horse.

Pretty much any of the mid elevation desert areas around state have wild herds. Just go out and look and you can find them. Of course they will be in the horse friendly areas vs the really rough areas. By that I mean, That if I'm seeing wild bighorn sheep, I'm not going to be seeing mustangs. They don't inhabit the same terrain.

They also don't seem to be migratory, So you don't find them in the high elevation areas that get snowed under. Or in areas where there is no water in the summer heat. They live in places where they can stay year round. Although it not unusual to see them travel 20 miles a day for water and feed.

The photos I posted are from the San Rafael Swell area of central Utah. There are also herds along the Utah Nevada state line. Pretty much North to South with the exceptons of the Salt flats.

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Phoresic
Reg. May 2010
Posted 2012-11-16 8:16 PM (#148378 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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Thanks for the information on the wild horses.  I read/heard somewhere that there was something special program where people could buy a mustang for $10 or something which was different from the other adoption fees I had heard.  I dont' remember where I saw that information though so who knows. 

At least Ken Salazar needs to stop threatening to hit his former constiuents :)  It sounded like an angry threat rather than just a by the way type of threat I would have expected.

Anyway, it probably won't ever go anywhere....just more of the same.

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Arizona Horseman
Reg. Nov 2012
Posted 2012-11-16 11:07 PM (#148384 - in reply to #148338)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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Location: Willcox, Arizona
Salazar and Davis are neighbors and business partners in many ventures. also interesting how normal citizens are limited to only 2 to 5 adoptions per year but Davis is adopting 1700 17
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2012-11-17 9:41 AM (#148388 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES



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Location: Northern Utah
Chronyism at it's finest
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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2012-11-18 6:58 PM (#148414 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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I say wipe them out and save the taxpayers millions. There is no need for wild horses...
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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2012-11-18 8:49 PM (#148418 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES




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Location: KY
farmbabe, what about moving them all to Maryland?

Edited by rose 2012-11-18 8:51 PM
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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2012-11-19 8:49 AM (#148433 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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Why saddle the taxpayers of Maryland with them? Here is another idea- open them up to a legal hunting season. The government could sell the hunting licenses and it could pay for the upkeep however there is no need for wild horses..period. They are not a natural part of the ecosystem. They simply eat, poop and breed. They take away from livestock ( people make their living at it plus pay taxes) and take away from native wild game. I love my horses but we have to start thinking with the rational part of our brains not the emotional side which got us into the mess in the first place.
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Gone
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2012-11-19 6:56 PM (#148457 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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Location: MI.
Wow.....you say they aren't native? So, the cattle are? Why do the cattle have more rights than the horses who have been here for many years? Money...
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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2012-11-19 10:33 PM (#148469 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES




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Location: KY
hi farmbabe;   Maryland is where Joseph Tydings and Keith Dane live......also,  Riverdale Md is the home office of  APHIS;  that was the reason for my suggestion

Edited by rose 2012-11-19 10:34 PM
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Phoresic
Reg. May 2010
Posted 2012-11-20 12:03 AM (#148476 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES


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I wouldn't supporte destruction of the wild horse herds.  Federal ownership of so much land in the West comes with expenses.  Perhaps the federal, state, and local governments should reconsider how much land they own. 
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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2012-11-20 10:26 AM (#148480 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES




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Location: KY
farmbabe: I agree with you.....reason not emotion needs to control our thinking and actions
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2012-11-20 11:49 AM (#148488 - in reply to #148314)
Subject: RE: COLORADO WILD HORSES



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Let's see, Ranchers write a check to the Govt every year to run cows on public lands,  They are monitored to make sure they don't over graze the land. They have a very set specific time frame to be on the public lands. Often the grazing permits come with strings, The ranchers put in corrals, develop springs and pipe the water to tanks. The ranchers maintain these at their cost.  The ranchers put fences to control the grazing  and have to take the fences at the end of each grazing period. At the end of the grazing permit time, the cattle are rounded up and removed. They typically are not allows on the mountain during wet periods. Same goes for draughts where they are removed early if the grass growth is not meeting the normal expectations.  Ranchers are required to oversee and check their herds. Some on an almost daily basis. Requiring a cow handler to live amongst the herd to make sure they don't move off their lease, that they don't get into the ripparian zones along streams and cave in the banks etc.

Wild horses in contrast, stay on the land year round. have nobody controlling them, they go where they please, nobody is putting fences up to control them. There are no natural predators, no hunting season, it's against the law to chase or harass. I bet the Buffalo, Elk and Deer all wish they had it so good.

I enjoying seeing the wild mustangs. But I see no problem with the BLM managing the herds and removing excess animals. And if the public won't adopt them. Then I see no problem with them being sold for meat. If there is a market to buy/sell that. I don't agree with holding thousands of mustangs in holding areas because they were removed from public lands and the laws prevent us from doing anything but feed them.

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