This is my second trailer same make. 37' Crown steel gooseneck, 7'6" tall, 6' wide. Dry weight is 7000lbs. I am making a new rear gate/ramp & the same for the side. It has 3 box stalls of equal size. I have 2 cldyde mares I will haul in it with their wagon/sleigh.
My question is has anyone removed the steel side panels in a steel trailer & replaced them with plastic panels? I figure I can lighten up the trailer by 2000lbs by doing this. Thanks
Posted 2010-07-09 12:07 AM (#122078 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Member
Posts: 14
Location: peyton, colorado
It might lighten up the load but there is no frame under a trailer. Most I have seen they are build like a semi trailer. The side pannels join the rails on the bottom, but there is no frame underneath like a truck. I would be worried the trailer would fold under the weight. I saw a tractor and trailer wreck where the rivits in the sides broke loose and the trailer folded between the truck and the trailer wheels. I would talk to some welders or someone like that, may be best to have a safe heavy trailer.
Posted 2010-07-09 9:47 AM (#122092 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
By trying to reengineer the trailer, you may turn it into a pile of junk. The integrity of a trailer is dependant on the whole accumulation of its structural parts. If you start repacing major pieces with those of less strength, you may be setting yourself up with some disappointments.
Carrying your "big" boys will take a strong trailer. If it's adequate now, I would do nothing to jeopardize its usefullness.
Posted 2010-07-09 11:58 AM (#122113 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Waterdown, Ontario
Thanks but I guess no one seems to have seen one of these. They were built in Brantford , Ontario. The side floor rails I am replacing from front to back. As well the floor cross members will be new. So basically the sides will sit on a new frame. The side upright frames will be welded back onto these. Thew trailer is steel framed & the side panels are fill. I am a electrician/welder & you must be able to picture how they are made. The side panels are fill only. No structural support.
Posted 2010-07-09 1:19 PM (#122121 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Veteran
Posts: 178 Location: Richmond, Ky
If for some reason god forbid that you had an accident, would your redesigned trailer offer ya hosses the same protection?? If NOT I'd follow Gard's advice?
Posted 2010-07-09 2:20 PM (#122126 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Waterdown, Ontario
Like I said I guess you guys have never seen a steel trailer with a frame. The panels are 16 gauge with 3/4" plywood than another piece of 16 gauge steel inside. The steel is going to be replaced with 1/8 plastic which hockey boards in arenas are made from. So plastic outside, 3/4" plywood, plastic inside. 16 gauge steel is NOT kick proof. Once again is was used for fill & the plywood if anything held the thing square to an extent. I'll post a couple pictures.
Posted 2010-07-09 2:46 PM (#122128 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
I'm not even going to address changing the structure of the trailer, or if it will hold up.
16 gauge steel will weigh 2.61 pounds per square foot. 1/8" UHMW plastic is just a little less than 1 pound per square foot (.9891......). If the sheets were full length and full height, we're only talking 445 pounds difference per side (at the most). Just not sure you will make the difference you are looking for.
The other thing I would take into consideration is flex in the trailer and attaching the plastic panels....'
Posted 2010-07-09 4:33 PM (#122132 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Those seel panels are a structural item and together act as a torque box, preventing the trailer from twisting over rough roads. They afford rigidity to the rear door box frame, window openings and side doors. They are welded in place and afford a strength unavailable in a plastic, bolted on panel that will have some give in each installation.
Did you ever see a house hold stud wall before the sheathing is applied? It has all the lateral strength of a kite, and can go from a rectangle to a parallelogram in seconds. A horse trailer is built differently than a flat bed trailer, and needs all its parts to be secure.
Since you made up your mind before you asked the question, I wish you the best with your project.
Yes. I've seen and worked on many steel trailer frames.
Posted 2010-07-09 4:52 PM (#122134 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Waterdown, Ontario
Well then you have not seen these. They are not welded in place. They have a small plate tacked behind the outer sheet, then the plywood is put in place. The inner sheet was slid in from the top before a u-channel was welded at the corners to the angle iron. I see that if you have not seen it that we'll not be agreeing. These panels only go 5 feet high on the sides then a 2 1/2 foot single sheet of 12 gauge steel makes the rest of the sides & continues over the roof. This is done here in Canada by trailer manufactures so you are not completing seeing the whole picture. I simply asked if anyone else had retroed the same thing themselves.
Posted 2010-07-09 9:13 PM (#122144 - in reply to #122128) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Waterdown, Ontario
Originally written by Tresvolte on 2010-07-09 2:46 PM
I'm not even going to address changing the structure of the trailer, or if it will hold up.
16 gauge steel will weigh 2.61 pounds per square foot. 1/8" UHMW plastic is just a little less than 1 pound per square foot (.9891......). If the sheets were full length and full height, we're only talking 445 pounds difference per side (at the most). Just not sure you will make the difference you are looking for.
The other thing I would take into consideration is flex in the trailer and attaching the plastic panels....'
Using your weight of 2.61 lbs per sq foot. I don't agree on that weight either. The sheets on my trailer are 5' x 10' Yes they must have been custom cut 26 years ago. So that would be steel panels inside the walls as well. So 12 x 104lbs. or about 1300lbs. Big difference in your calculation. Filler panels at best. Weight not needed. It was also built with 2" x 4" x 1/8" square tube as frame rails down either side. Since they are rotten they will be replaced with 1 1/2" x 4" c channel steel. Doesn't hold water like tube & is just as strong if not more. Original cross members of 2" x2" x 1/8" spaced every 30" will be replaced by 2" x 2" x 3/16" spaced every 24". Yes I have done heavy equipment repairs. Some people think outside the box. Steel trailers have a steel frames. If they don't than they are a composite build as with an aluminum trailer. You comment on a house unless they build them different down there, they do have a frame. Should stand up by itself. Most commercial builds do too. Glass panels on the outside don't hold a steel building together.
Posted 2010-07-10 5:37 PM (#122174 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Waterdown, Ontario
Thanks. I think it's hard to picture if you can't see it. Even in the picture it's brown so you can't really see it. I'll post a picture or two as I go so it might be a little more clear. Right now I have just put it on jack stands. The axle has to come off & then 10 feet of the rear floor & side frame will be cut out & replaced. Then the next 10 feet, then.....11
Posted 2010-07-12 9:16 AM (#122242 - in reply to #122144) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Originally written by b1mmuo27 on 2010-07-09 9:13 PM
Originally written by Tresvolte on 2010-07-09 2:46 PM
I'm not even going to address changing the structure of the trailer, or if it will hold up.
16 gauge steel will weigh 2.61 pounds per square foot. 1/8" UHMW plastic is just a little less than 1 pound per square foot (.9891......). If the sheets were full length and full height, we're only talking 445 pounds difference per side (at the most). Just not sure you will make the difference you are looking for.
The other thing I would take into consideration is flex in the trailer and attaching the plastic panels....'
Using your weight of 2.61 lbs per sq foot. I don't agree on that weight either. The sheets on my trailer are 5' x 10' Yes they must have been custom cut 26 years ago. So that would be steel panels inside the walls as well. So 12 x 104lbs. or about 1300lbs. Big difference in your calculation. Filler panels at best. Weight not needed. It was also built with 2" x 4" x 1/8" square tube as frame rails down either side. Since they are rotten they will be replaced with 1 1/2" x 4" c channel steel. Doesn't hold water like tube & is just as strong if not more. Original cross members of 2" x2" x 1/8" spaced every 30" will be replaced by 2" x 2" x 3/16" spaced every 24". Yes I have done heavy equipment repairs. Some people think outside the box. Steel trailers have a steel frames. If they don't than they are a composite build as with an aluminum trailer. You comment on a house unless they build them different down there, they do have a frame. Should stand up by itself. Most commercial builds do too. Glass panels on the outside don't hold a steel building together.
I was actually a little heavy at 2.61 pounds per square foot. Sheet metal thickness gauges for steel are based on a weight of 41.82 pounds per square foot per inch of thickness. This is known as the Manufacturers Standard Gauge for Sheet Steel. A 16 gauge steel sheet which has a thickness of 0.0598 inches will weigh 41.82*0.0598 = 2.500836 pounds per square foot.
When I did my original calculation I did not know the actual sheet sizes so I improvised; 37' long x 7'6" tall = approximately 277.5 square foot per side. 277.5 x 2.61 = 724.275 pound per side of steel that is being removed. Replacing it with 1/8" UHMW plastic sheet at 274.475 pounds per side is a net savings per side of 449.8 pounds per side or a total of 899.6 pounds for the trailer.
Using the sheet sizes in your reply, 5' x 10' and assuming that x 12 is the number of sheets, the square footage being replaced is 600 square foot. 600 x 2.5 = 1500 pounds of sheet steel being removed. 600 x .9891 = 593.46 is the approximate weight of the UHMW plastic, so the savings in weight is 906.54 pounds total, or 453.27 pounds per side. I originally said 445 per side. I was off.
Good luck on your project. Changing from the tube to the c channel will definitely save some weight. I'd be curious to know before and after weights. Keep us posted.
Posted 2010-07-12 9:44 AM (#122244 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Waterdown, Ontario
Thanks. I started to cut out the back frame/floor. The side 2 x 4 rectangle tube was only 1/8" thick. As is the 2 x2 cross members. It's 26 years old but that thin a gauge needs good paint & people who owned it didn't look like they keep the inside very clean. Inner frame is definitely more rotten than the outside. Axles aren't that old though as they had hydrolic over electric brakes installed in 2000.
Posted 2010-07-12 10:00 AM (#122246 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Waterdown, Ontario
Here is a pic of the floor supports & rotten frame. I'll be pre welding 10 foot sections of the frame/floor supports & slide them under with some grunt & groning. You can see the side panels & the angle iron skeleton. A 2 x 2 square tube also runs on top of the side walls & the roof trusses weld into it.
Posted 2010-07-26 2:03 PM (#122794 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Member
Posts: 6
Location: PA
Hmmm, I can't figure out how to post a question! I'm sorry I had to do it through your posting. I just purchased a 1976 Hartman Roadmaster double horse trailer. Above the ramp in the back, there are little protruding "nubs" all the way around the top of the trailer, where something can obviously be connected to enclose the area above the ramp. Does anyone know what this part is called, and where I could possibly find one??? I have miniature horses which I am not concerned about jumping out, but I also have alpacas. They are a concern. If anyone can help, that would be awesome!!! Thanks.
Posted 2010-07-26 5:14 PM (#122808 - in reply to #122014) Subject: RE: Trailer overhaul
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534 Location: Zionsville, Indiana
Elena - Those nubs were probably to fasten a canvas cover over the area. This was not uncommon in the older trailers. Some of them had snaps, some had little toggle fasteners.
Trailer overhaul
