Posted 2010-04-07 3:57 PM (#118562 - in reply to #118555) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Originally written by hogtownboss on 2010-04-07 1:13 PM
The older trucks need more lube so it is almost a must to run some sort of treatment all the time. I know my older Ford IDI trucks start leaking fuel around the o-rings and loss power if I do not use a treatment (tranny fluid) or farm fuel
Kelley
I use synthetic oil in my 7.3 PSD crankcase, and one quart of synthetic 2 cycle oil per fuel fill up. (aprox 30 -35 gals). I am curious about your usage of "tranny fluid". You're speaking of ATF? Do you know of any comparison testing of the various brands/types ?
I was on a web site that compared various fluids added to fuel as lubricants. My favourite, Marvel Mystery Oil, did poorly and I subsequently switched to the 2 cycle oil, based on the results of the testing.
Is ATF better than a 2 cycle oil for a top cylinder and injector lubricant? My PSD is an older motor with no emissions.
Posted 2010-04-07 4:08 PM (#118564 - in reply to #118555) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Regular
Posts: 92 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Originally written by hogtownboss on 2010-04-07 12:13 PM
Thank You,
Finally some that knows what I am talking about...... One thing, on the injector issue, the "big 3" has said "that the newer DPF equiped trucks have injectors that are designed to run on ultra low fuel with no problems"
Which I am like you and I find that hard to believe, but still would not use any type of fuel treatment with the DPF still installed on the truck unless I just absolutly had too.....
Same goes for older trucks but just the other way. The older trucks need more lube so it is almost a must to run some sort of treatment all the time.
See I have the other impression. Not based on any particular fact, mind you but I reckon extra fuel lubricity can only help. They certainly will tell you the injectors can handle ULSD but then again Ford also has fuel additive available for sale. Fuel injection systems become more costly to fix and replace every model year, and I still hear about some folks having injector issues, and we don't drive our truck as regularly as most. Therefore I think the fuel additive makes sense.
I hadn't heard that fuel additives are bad for the DPF, but if that's the case I'll just bite down and buy a Spartan and DPF delete kit anyway. I'm close to the end of my 36k warranty and the extra fuel I'll save is worth it to me to void the rest of my drivetrain warranty.
Posted 2010-04-07 4:35 PM (#118568 - in reply to #118162) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Veteran
Posts: 188 Location: Ingalls, Ks
3brlrcr, I didn't investigate the air hitches a lot to be honest. I have friends that run the air and timbren type hitches and seem to get along fine. I guess that, like you, I talked to Doug and was impressed and I really like the simplicity of his design. I do not sell the Star Hitch, but I've had a couple of friends buy them and have been very satisfied. I feel very comfortable with the design and feel it will be a lifetime investment with no weather checking or air leaks, just a few shots of grease every once in a while. You'll certainly want to do your own homework! Good luck
Posted 2010-04-08 4:37 PM (#118606 - in reply to #118562) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Expert
Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
Originally written by gard on 2010-04-07 3:57
Kelley
I use synthetic oil in my 7.3 PSD crankcase, and one quart of synthetic 2 cycle oil per fuel fill up. (aprox 30 -35 gals). I am curious about your usage of "tranny fluid". You're speaking of ATF? Do you know of any comparison testing of the various brands/types ?
I was on a web site that compared various fluids added to fuel as lubricants. My favourite, Marvel Mystery Oil, did poorly and I subsequently switched to the 2 cycle oil, based on the results of the testing.
Is ATF better than a 2 cycle oil for a top cylinder and injector lubricant? My PSD is an older motor with no emissions.
Thanks. Gard
YES, regular ATF... The only test that I seen lately was done by DIESEL POWER MAG a few months back. You can go to their website and see the details dieselpowermmag.com. They had 2 actual fuel treatments, ATF and 2 cyl. oil that was tested and use on 1 truck and I believe it was drove 1000 miles per treatment, the 2 cyl oil was better than the tranny fluid but since I am in the used car business I buy oil and transmission fluid by the cases therfor it is cheaper for me to use the ATF. Plus Dad drove a cattle truck for years in the 70's and ATF is what they used in the big trucks, so I figured it could not hurt.
I also seen a site with different test (can't find it now) and the power service was actually under the ATF and 2 cyl oil. If I remember right there was a few high dollar brands on top, 2 cyl oil and ATF was just under that followed by power service and marvel oil was toward the bottom. I will keep looking for the site. It was really interesting.
Posted 2010-04-09 10:19 AM (#118628 - in reply to #118162) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Expert
Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
That first one is some good reading. I really like this part:
That study has been copied all over the Diesel forums, if you have a 6.4L powerstroke or 6.6L powerstroke diesel yes Ford does not recommend any fuel additives; becuase of the increased EGT during DPF burnoff cycle, additives increase the BTU's of diesel fuel.
I called 3 different Ford dealers around here and all 3 deal in not only regular trucks but the fleet side as well and all 3 service managers told me that "Ford really DOES NOT recommend using a treatment in the DPF equiped vehicles but if you feel you need to Ford only recommends the power service in the gray bottle and also extended use of any treatment in these vehicles could cause damage to the DPF and or converter.
Posted 2010-04-12 12:54 AM (#118712 - in reply to #118162) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544 Location: Claxton, Ga.
In the new high pressure common rail trucks, please don't use ATF. The detergent in it will cause issues with the pump and increase wear on injectors. If you want to use something, use Howes, Power service, 2 stroke oil, etc. You can use ATF in older diesels, that's no big deal at all but for the new trucks it can cause issues to arise. The newer trucks with DPF's, stick with ULSD only. I will cause issues unless your DPF has fallen off somewhere on the road.
Posted 2010-04-12 10:02 AM (#118721 - in reply to #118162) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Veteran
Posts: 198 Location: Iowa
After reading this study, I switched to 2% Biodiesel in my Ford 7.3 Powerstroke...in an independent lab test, it added far higher lubricity than any of the 20 or so additives tested. Here's the link to the full article: The higher the "micron improvement" the higher the lubricity.
RESULTS
In Order Of Performance:
1) 2% REG SoyPower bio-diesel
HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement.
50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel
66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel
Price: market value
13) Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15W-40, 5,000 miles used.
Unconventional
(Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems)
HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement (statistically insignificant change)
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
price: $0.00
14) Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant
Gas or Diesel
HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant
change)
427:1 ratio
7.8 oz/tank
$2.65/tank
Posted 2010-04-12 10:12 AM (#118722 - in reply to #118555) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Expert
Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
Originally written by hogtownboss on 2010-04-07 12:13 PM
Thank You,
Finally some that knows what I am talking about...... One thing, on the injector issue, the "big 3" has said "that the newer DPF equiped trucks have injectors that are designed to run on ultra low fuel with no problems"
Which I am like you and I find that hard to believe, but still would not use any type of fuel treatment with the DPF still installed on the truck unless I just absolutly had too.....
Same goes for older trucks but just the other way. The older trucks need more lube so it is almost a must to run some sort of treatment all the time. I know my older Ford IDI trucks start leaking fuel around the o-rings and loss power if I do not use a treatment (tranny fluid) or farm fuel in it, then as soon I the treatment or farm fuel runs through the system everything s back to normal again.
So we must thank the dear ol' EPA for their lack of help.
Just a forwarded post incase some have not looked at every post!
Posted 2010-04-12 4:01 PM (#118730 - in reply to #118162) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Veteran
Posts: 231 Location: Illinois
PowerServices is what we use...and I think IF there wasn't a problem with the diesel fuel ( bio-crap) these products wouldn't be in such demand...even seen an add in the latest Western Horseman issue for PowerServices...
My hubby is a heavy Equipment operator and Mechanic..and this bio-crap has caused more problems than ever on the equipment he operates and maintains...
Posted 2010-04-13 1:00 PM (#118759 - in reply to #118162) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Veteran
Posts: 198 Location: Iowa
Yep, home-made biodiesel and high content biodisel like 100% biodiesel can cause some serious problems with fuel filters, gaskets, etc. But B2 Biodiesel only has 2% soy biodiesel and adds lubricity without causing any problems..also does not affect/downgrade performance like B100 biodiesel can (fewer BTU's per gallon than regular diesel). I've been very happy with B2 Biodiesel...my 7.3 PowerStroke is running a lot quieter and smoother...not a single issue with it and I've been running B2 for nearly a year.
Posted 2010-04-13 11:07 PM (#118778 - in reply to #118628) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Veteran
Posts: 134
I have been following the posts on diesel fuel additives with great interest. My husband is a firm believer in Marvel Mystery Oil. We have an 04 Ford with a 6.0 diesel engine, an a 07 Duramax and a very good friend of ours has an 09 Dodge Cummins. So after all this do you use a fuel additive or not, and if so which one? It seems to me after reading the posts and the survey results that marvel Mystery Oil does more harm than good. Help! Please! Thanks!
Posted 2010-04-14 8:25 AM (#118784 - in reply to #118162) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Veteran
Posts: 198 Location: Iowa
Well, according to the study (done by an independent lab), Marvel actually increases the HFRR of the baseline ULSD fuel. Here is what the HHFR means, and what the standards recommended are. The lower the HFRR, the better the lubricity. Keep in mind this study was about lubricity, not raising cetane values or anti-gel ability. I can't say if Marvel is good or not, but according to the study, it doesn't add any lubricity to ULSD fuel.
How Diesel Fuel Is Evaluated For Lubricating Ability:
Diesel fuel and other fluids are tested for lubricating ability using a device
called a “High Frequency Reciprocating Rig” or HFRR. The HFRR is currently
the Internationally accepted, standardized method to evaluate fluids for
lubricating ability. It uses a ball bearing that reciprocates or moves back and
forth on a metal surface at a very high frequency for a duration of 90
minutes. The machine does this while the ball bearing and metal surface are
immersed in the test fluid (in this case, treated diesel fuel). At the end of the
test the ball bearing is examined under a microscope and the “wear scar” on
the ball bearing is measured in microns. The larger the wear scar, the poorer
the lubricating ability of the fluid. The independent lab runs every sample
twice and averages the size of the wear scar.
The U.S. standard for diesel fuel says a commercially available diesel fuel
should produce a wear scar of no greater than 520 microns.
The Engine Manufacturers Association had requested a standard of a
wear scar no greater than 460 microns, typical of the pre-ULSD fuels.
Most experts agree that a 520 micron standard is adequate, but also that
the lower the wear scar the better.
Posted 2010-04-14 9:31 AM (#118787 - in reply to #118778) Subject: RE: Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Originally written by liv to ride on 2010-04-13 12:07 AM
I have been following the posts on diesel fuel additives with great interest. My husband is a firm believer in Marvel Mystery Oil. So after all this do you use a fuel additive or not, and if so which one? It seems to me after reading the posts and the survey results that marvel Mystery Oil does more harm than good. Help! Please! Thanks!
When the Mercedes diesels first became popular in the states, it was a prescribed maintenance to pull and clean the mechanical injectors every 15K miles. We started recommending Marvel Mystery Oil as a fuel additive to our customers. This resulted in clean injectors, and no cleaning maintenance for well over 50K miles. We also used the oil as a top cylinder lubricant for overhauled gas motors. It was the perfect additive for Corvairs, when the valve lifters would clog and become noisy on start up.
I used the stuff religiously for the next three decades, in my diesel equipment and automobiles, with great success. Always searching for the best lubricants, I read the same test results that were previously stated. I was surprised to learn that while MMO was obviously a good solvent/cleaner, it was not a good lubricant. It was actually a detriment to the lubricosity of the diesel fuel.
Many of the top named supplements are not readily available in our area. Because my four diesels are of the "older" school technology ( not common rail, high pressure) I have elected to use 2 cycle oil as a fuel supplement, again based on the results of this posted testing.
I have never had a mechanical problem or failure, of any of my diesel equipment while using the MMO. Because I don't have the funds or desire to replace their expensive components, I will use whatever is available to enhance their longevity. I hope the oil is what I need to achieve my goals.
These old Kohler and B/S air cooler gas engines are notorious for sticking valves. A drink stopper/cap of this about every ten hours of operation and the problem is solved.
Troubleshooting F-350 pulling Trails West LQ
