Posted 2010-02-14 9:37 AM (#116558) Subject: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 690 Location: missouri
We went to a sale that was sponsored by some pretty big name performance barns yesterday in Carthage, Missouri. Most of the horses were cutters and reiners... getting prices from $250.-21,000. There were at least two GREAT barrel prospects that went for 250.-300., they had great pedigrees and looked nice and were young....? I am thinkin... if you are Babcock Ranch, why are you bringin stock up here???? and what do you people think about actually buying at a sale?? We don't do it.
Posted 2010-02-14 10:57 AM (#116562 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 420 Location: Iowa
Go to any horse sale around here, and you can't hardley give them away. Yes, even the decent horses have no value any more. I wouldn't call them all "Culls". When your barn full of hay cost more than the sale value of your horses...well do the math. Ray Charles can see it that won't add up. I'd like to send a few down the road myself. My mares are by no "culls' or nasty to be around. I've raised some nice futurity colts out of them. But I can afford to keep them healthy and happy. So rather than give them away, like some people are being forced to due because of the high costs of keeping them, I'll keep em'. The sad truth is, there is no "middle " market any more and the lower end horses are freebies or worse. By the way, because of the maket right now, I WILL NOT be breeding anything. I don't need another mouth to feed either. I'll have to admit, they are now pasture pets!!
Posted 2010-02-14 5:56 PM (#116581 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Expert
Posts: 1723 Location: michigan
Even breeding programs that are known to produce outstanding horses end up with some that are nice but not nice enough to command the big money.They have to go somewhere so they are usually sent to middle of the road sale where they can be bought very reasonably.If you do your homework, ask question,poke and prod..you can get yourself a nice well bred horse for a lot less than if you bought from the farm or at a bigger sale.My next horse will likely come from a sale rather than a trainer's barn.
Posted 2010-02-14 6:12 PM (#116582 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Veteran
Posts: 186
Basic Business 101 = The horse industry has an excess supply for the amount of demand. It will take 20 years to turn around. I wouldn't hesitate to go to an auction to buy a youngster or a horse that I looked at- at a farm and got vet checked before the sale. Personally I have only sold crapy horses at sales. I did sell one really good sound 9 yr old TWHBEA at the Tattersal Sale back in 2002 or 03 and got $2,100 for him but he was a heck of a good trail horse and had the looks to be a show horse but I campainged him, got some of the big name people to look at him and they bid him up to 2,000 for me. Haven't been to a sale in over a year because it is so depressing. I gelded my TWHBEA stud who is by a WGC and has 8 WGC titles on his papers. He was a calm gentle stud and was 11 when I gelding him and had made GREAT gelding, trail horse. I Never regreted it. He was always pastured with mares and foals so he isn't a social idiot I think that made his transition easier. I am trying to sell him but I live in Upper Michigan and it is hard to get people to come up here. I like him alot and don't have the heart to take to a sale. Congrats to people with mares just feeding them and not breeding. To the topic. Auctions are a gamble sometimes you win somtimes you loose.
Posted 2010-02-16 8:52 AM (#116652 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Regular
Posts: 93 Location: ark/ok border
We are seeing the same thing here in Oklahoma, very sad for the horse industry as a whole and really sad for the owners that have lost their jobs and having to sell good horses just to pay the bills. I bought a ssh horse last Feburary at the local sale(we have never bought one there before) that was near starved to death, had worts on his nose and was told he was broke( thinking he was drugged cause they rode him in the ring). Anyway to make a long story short wouldnt take anything for him now, 6 wks in the round pen and miles of trail riding has made him the perfect horse for me. Now with that being said, I could have spent a little more and gotten a well broke trained one but this worked for me which may not be the case for everyone. We have 5 horses 1 is going to be 36 this yr), all are well fed, vet checked and properly taken care of. What bothers me the most are the "newbies" to horse ownership, because prices are so low and tax rebate time is here I am seeing people buy that doesnt have a clue on care. We watched some buy Saturday nite (3 horses) and over heard the woman asking did hubby think back yard was big enough for another when a very nice looking paint came in the ring. grrr! Yes I would buy at a sale barn again if I needed another one but please dont buy if u dont have the pasture or sense on how to take care of one.
Posted 2010-02-16 2:16 PM (#116665 - in reply to #116652) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Expert
Posts: 2614
I agree with mmry.That's why a lot of them wind up at the sales in the first place,people thought it would be "cool" or "neat" to get into horses a few years back.Thinking it was similar to owning a dog or cat.Did not have a CLUE as to how much the suckers can eat,or,what their feet can do to a small plot of ground not to mention their teeth.
Posted 2010-02-16 3:39 PM (#116668 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
I think it was last year, I saw an interview with Clinton Anderson or some other clinician talking with the Babcock people ( I think, It's been a while, I could be wrong as to the breeders, but it was a recognized name) They were saying that when everybody else stops breeding, it is the ideal time to start breeding, Because when the market turns around, there won't be any quality horses available. So hence they were keeping their breeding program in full swing. Well as you can see the market has not turned around, and young horses from quality breeders are now cheap. If you have 50 mares and they all dropped a foal last year and again this year, You now have 150 horses to feed. If you can't sell them, you start to give them away.
I noticed the big February auction here was canceled. It's been an annual event for as long as I can remember, Big sale with usually 100+ horse. I suspect because the auctioneer didn't think they could cover the expenses of putting it on when all the got was the no-sale fee or the basic listing fee because horse sold too cheap.
Posted 2010-02-16 7:21 PM (#116675 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 420 Location: Iowa
Frankly.......I don't know how these Sale Barns are even keeping the lights on. It wasn't very long ago, last fall. This guy (yes, I know him) brought five head to the sale. Now mind you they didn't look the best, been in the pasture running all summer & fall. Looked a little on the tough side. And he didn't do a thing to improve their looks either. 3 were yearlings. He brought home a check for $45 after his sales charges. How about that for being in the horse business? Kinda makes ya sick doesn't it.
So how much money do you think the Sale Barn made? I'll bet it wan't very darn much.
Posted 2010-02-16 7:29 PM (#116676 - in reply to #116668) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Veteran
Posts: 231 Location: Illinois
I have only sold 1 horse at an auction and I have only bought 1 horse at an auction..the sale went better than I expected, but the gelding I purchased was another story...proud cut...what a friggin nightmare he turned out to be...learned my lesson there... and have since avoided the sales scene.
But my theroy is: Good horses aren't cheap and cheap horses aren't any good...I realize there are exception to any rule, but I try and keep that in mind when I shop...
Posted 2010-02-17 3:34 AM (#116699 - in reply to #116676) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 420 Location: Iowa
Originally written by To Much Trouble on 2010-02-16 7:29 PM
.
But my theroy is: Good horses aren't cheap and cheap horses aren't any good...I realize there are exception to any rule, but I try and keep that in mind when I shop...
There's a lot a truth to that. I feel the same way.
Posted 2010-02-17 8:45 AM (#116704 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Expert
Posts: 1723 Location: michigan
Without the slaughter outlet, there isn't anyone place to sell unwanted horses. Without a thriving economy ( thanks obama) there isn't a solid recreational market for these horses.Remember- we don't NEED horses..people want them! When there is no need and a declining want, this is what happens-good horses that can't be sold to the middle market are sold somewhere/somehow. If you had the time and made the effort to do some research on the horses at a sale, then you could pick up a great deal. If you can't or won't, then its a crap shoot.
Posted 2010-02-17 9:08 AM (#116706 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 690 Location: missouri
I'll say it again... IF THESE DUMBA-- BACKYARD TRASH BREEDERS WOULD STOP, we would have a strong market again! I have too many neighbors who just think it is cute to have as many head of ANYTHING ( horses, mules,cats,dogs,and bubba kids) that they keep it up year after year. Thank God we don't have to pay for feeding the livestock, but ALL of us are paying for their little bast__d youngins. To me, that is the same as theft from the government we pay taxes to. And by the way, I have a niece in the above category that I say the same thing to...so most of us have a skeleton in the closet we're not too happy about. Our country is being gutted and selling out because we won't stand up and stop the insanity. PETA and the US Humane Society have an agenda that can only lead to us eating grains and roots and abolishing the business of agriculture...
Posted 2010-02-17 1:42 PM (#116721 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Expert
Posts: 1723 Location: michigan
What is the cure for low prices? Low prices! At some point breeders of all sorts will stop producing a product they cannot sell. Since we cannot force people to stop breeding horses the market will do that for us.
Posted 2010-02-17 8:24 PM (#116742 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Location: Central Arkansas
I just sold a 2yr old in Oct for $22,500. 5 years ago that same bred colt would have brought that much as a suckling. I had to keep him until he was of riding age, then get him started to PROVE he had the ability along with the pedigree. That really cut into the farm profit. I have to make a profit to stay in business. IRS wants you to just take them to a sale and sale at a loss if that is what the market dictates to find buyers for young stock. A lot of quality breeders are having to sell a certain percentage at sales just to stay in business. I felt like I had to also do right by each horse. All my babies were by world champions and out of good mares. I only had one baby born last year. I did not breed any mares last year, nor do I have any plans to breed any in the future. With that said......I have a really hard time with people raising inferior horses. I drive past places along the interstate that have herds of hungry mares with mulitiple cull stallions running with them in their overgrazed dirt lots eating black moldy looking hay. It makes me sick to my stomach! How can they continue breeding when they clearly can't properly care for what they already have? I just don't get it! I wish that those folks would have gotten mandatory animal husbandry classes in school.
Posted 2010-03-11 7:34 PM (#117483 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 391 Location: Columbia, KY
Yeah... it's really depressing with our economy. There are some very good horses selling for dirt cheap. My farrier went to the local auction.. saw a horse he knew- 4 yr old nice trail horse- go for $95.
crazy!
Posted 2010-03-11 7:54 PM (#117484 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Expert
Posts: 1723 Location: michigan
Not all back yard breeders are bad. Some people only have one or two mares-quality mares-and they breed them to good,quality stallions. There is always a market for a good horse...might not be a great market but if it can win, it will sell. On the other hand, large breeding farms turn out many foals that are average at best before they get that superstar. In a bad market, average doesn't sell. I guess the point is- we cannot just point the finger of blame at one particular group...we just have too many horses and not enough buyers in this down market. It just might force breeders to keep their mares open or do a better job producing a horse that can sell.
Posted 2010-03-16 1:26 AM (#117655 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Veteran
Posts: 164 Location: Delaware
I have been watching the horse sales around the east coast. Some people say they wouldn't send a horse to a sale. Well, if you have a horse and sell him he will probably end up at one of these auctions. Of recent there have been alot of higher quality good pedigree horses going to the sales because people can't afford to keep them right now. No one is buying so what happens to the horses at the sales? Canada slaughter houses. Alot of solid color paints with good parentage but no color. 2-3 yr olds. Older horses that have made money for their owners but once they are retired they don't want to keep them. Within the past 4-5 months horses from out west (that some sold for $4,000-$10,000 earlier in life) are going thru for $500. Some of these horses are 7-10 yrs old and nothing physically wrong with them. Backyard breeders that have no sale for the yearlings and mare due to foal out again. One horse last week in the killpen had won everything he was shown in at Congress a couple years ago. He was saved to possibly show again.
Posted 2010-03-16 7:35 AM (#117663 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1069 Location: MI.
Ya' know what makes me disgusted? People who disgard their horse after they have given them years of service.....trail riding, showing, breeding etc. After dumping them they turn around and buy a replacement.
Posted 2010-03-16 11:20 AM (#117674 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Veteran
Posts: 219 Location: Mt. Clemens, MI 48043
There are lots of good horses out there worth their price. Just found out there is a slaughterhouse open in Wyoming. It will take many years for the equine industry to become what it once was. Still don't like PITA and still want to put all the unwanted horses on the White House grounds to be taken care of. We (animal caretakers) are all in the same boat. Just came from the Expo and there are some very nice looking stallions. Would we like to breed our mare - yes. Will we - no. We just have to do our part and keep remembering how many horses are out there needing a home. It's not like the TV doesn't keep reminding us how desperate the shelters and other places are to find homes.
Posted 2010-03-18 1:35 AM (#117756 - in reply to #116558) Subject: RE: Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
Member
Posts: 16
Location: United States
Those PITA people don't know what it is like to buy a horse thinking you had a really nice horse to ride and maybe breed when you find out it will try to kill you if it had a chance. I had one like that. I sold it to a neighber,told him what she would do but he bought her anyway. Last I knew she was down south. After 3 different owners. Told them also when they called me, she was still registered to me. They did not know she had been sold to so many different people. I warned them!!!! That horse should have went to kill. Anytime a horse comes at you with their teeth barred is not good. She was only 4. Her previous owner was an older lady. Thought she would be good. Boy was I wrong!!!!!!!! They never told me this about her. Later I found out that her previous owner broke her hip!!! But they said it was not her horse that did it. Hah right!!! How would they like that horse on the lawn in DC. She would kill someone or they would shoot her.
Horse sale in Missouri yesterday...are they "culls"?
