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strange spot on horses back

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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-03-14 7:57 PM (#101379)
Subject: strange spot on horses back


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This summer I purchased a new Tucker saddle because it was the only saddle out of about 20 to 25 that fit my horse.  I had the vet check it to be sure it fit.  Here is what is happening...after I ride my horse has a circle about 2 to 2 1/2 inches in diameter that the hair looks as if it has been shaved off.  It does it mostly on the right side of his spine just off to the side in front of his hip.  (On top of his back off to the right of the spine in front of his hip.) If I ride for 3 plus hours it also does it on the left side but not as bad.  I thought it was the saddle pad because it had gotten a little crusty from dirt and sweat, so I purchased a new pad that has fleece on the underside.  Still had the cirlce with hair missing.  So far the skin does not look raw but it is close. I am puzzled as to what could be causing this.  He does not have any reaction when I press on the area after unsaddling. My next step is to take him and saddle back to vet, sit in saddle and have her check it again.   Has anyone ever had anything like this on their horse?  Any ideas as to the cause? 
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ponytammy
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2009-03-14 9:45 PM (#101382 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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I would guess you would have better luck in correct saddle fitting from a saddle maker/dealer. But here are some ideas to look into:

If you saddle is a square skirt, it maybe too long for his back and causing pressure at the edge of your pad. I just saw what you are describing this weekend with a friend riding an Arab with a square skirt saddle causing hair loss rub marks on both sides of the horses hip at the top.

Also make sure that you are riding balanced. Being that the spot is on one side might indicate that you may be sitting a little off putting more pressure under the bar of the saddle on his back.

Saddle fitting can be a huge pain for both horse and rider. Been there last year trying to fit a fox trotter. What would fit her, was uncomfortable for me and vice versa.

One more thing to think about is if your horse has gained or lost weight/muscle definition. This too can affect fit especially if you are riding a young horse.

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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2009-03-14 11:00 PM (#101389 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back




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Suggest you turn the saddle upside down and press with your fingers in the area of the skirt that would match the spots on your horse's back.....just my thought as I have seen the things that attach saddle strings create a tiny bulge on the underside of the saddle.....if that is the case then you could take a felt pad and dig out the two areas to put next to your saddle.  Hope this is the problem.  If not then I suggest you go to an english saddle for your sensitive skinned horse.  Let us know what you find........
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Wild Bill
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2009-03-14 11:04 PM (#101390 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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leslie, if you have access to a regular saddle blanket try it out and see what happens. How stiff is the back of your new pad and what size is it. If it's to long it will rub if stiff. I had the same problem with my Arib and had to go down a size on my pad, problem fixed. Just my 2 pennys worth.
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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-03-15 9:07 AM (#101398 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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Thanks all. I had to go with this saddle because he his short backed. The skirt is only 24 inches. I had ridden him for years in a big ole heavy roping saddle that was way too long and I did not know any better. Never had these spots with that saddle. Then I tried my old barrel saddle and it did not fit at all.

For this Tucker, the first pad that I used about 9 months was 1/2 inch thick wool felt. That is the one I changed because it had gotten a little crusty. The new pad has a a very soft fleece underside. Neither is stiff on top side and are about 28 inches long.

I can say that with the new saddle, the horse seems to be less inclined to "kick out" when going into a lope/canter. So, I feel like he is more comfortable or maybe he just got tired of being silly. In fact, since riding in the Tucker, he has not kicked out at all. Now sure as the world since I have said that, he will do it the next time I ride him.

Oh I digress...I appreciate all of your replies..I guess I will stick to the game plan of having my vet check saddle with me sitting in it. It could very well be my riding. This saddle is a little too big for me and I may be causing it by pushing back every so often to remain in the center of the seat. (I got the smallest seat size Tucker makes..too big for me but it seemed the saddle fit horse.) I will check the placement of the sting things too.. As for changing to an english..I do not ride well enough to sit an english saddle. I will keep you posted as to what the vet thinks will help. Thanks again.



Edited by lesliemal 2009-03-15 9:12 AM
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randemtam
Reg. Jun 2007
Posted 2009-03-15 6:07 PM (#101427 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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This type of loin rubbing can also be caused by the saddle bridging or by being a bit too long. I demoed a Tucker and it caused loin rubbing on my horse so I passed on it. That is not to say Tucker's are bad only that that particular Tucker did not fit that particular horse. If the saddle is rubbing because of bridging, then it won't matter what pad you use under it. You may be able to shim it just enough to lift it off of the loins if you were to find that bridging is the cause. It's also possible for a saddle to fit the horse really well until he moves. Have your vet feel under the back of the saddle with the horse moving. He/She may be able to feel if it is too tight or perhaps something else. You probably sit a little crooked, as we all do, and that's why it shows up on one side after a shorter ride and both sides after a longer ride. You can make the seat a bit smaller by adding a seat saver. I even saw a product in a catalog that was designed to make the seat of a western saddle smaller. This would help you with your balance so you don't have to fight your saddle all of the time.

Good luck! I went treeless because I got tired of purchasing saddles all of the time. I still had some issues here and there when the horse changed but that was all fixed by changing the padding. 

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jakey1
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2009-03-16 8:58 AM (#101451 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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Suggest you investigate a WON Pad... google it for more info.  It's a closed cell foam pad with a felt "skin".  The closed cell foam allows creation of sweat under the pad which causes "lubrication" between the saddle and skin and reduces the friction of the rough surface pads like fleece and/or felt coming in contact with the skin.  They make the pads in various thicknesses.  The better the fit of the saddle, the thinner the pad needs to be... 
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Dee S.
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-03-16 3:04 PM (#101479 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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Location: Palmyra, WI
Had the same situation with a paso fino horse...only the rub marks were
equal on both sides in the loin area. Ended up with a paso fino saddle based on the McClellan tree and a pad made for that size saddle. It was also center fire rigged. The problem was eliminated and the horse has stopped trying to dump me. I'm happy. He's happy.
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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-03-16 3:21 PM (#101482 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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Location: Georgia

I don't think the saddle is bridging...at least it is NOT while he is standing still. The saddle fits well while the horse is just standing there. I still need to have someone check it with me in it and the horse moving.

 I looked up that Won-pad...did not see one with the width needed as this saddle has a dropped rigging. The pad has to be at least 32 wide but not too long...sorta limits my options. Both pads I have tried have been specifically made for Tucker saddles. I have an old ESP pad that I used with the afore mentioned big ole heavy roping saddle. I guess I could try that pad but it will be awfully long on the horse as it is 34 X 36. (Again the fella is short backed.)

My saddle does have other rigging options..It can be rigged using the front dee(full rigging) or back dee (3/4 rigging)or use both dees for what I think is called 7/8 rigging? I am not sure what a center fire rigging means...can you give me a little detail? (Dee S.)

 I have been using the front dee for full rigging...do ya'll think it might help to try a different rigging position. I don't guess it would hurt to try the other positions. I do use a rear cinch too but fairly loose.

 Have not been able to put saddle on horse since first post as it has been raining raining and raining. (Not complaining as we still are way behind in our rain fall.)

Keep the suggestions coming. I really apprecaite your time and ideas.



Edited by lesliemal 2009-03-16 3:24 PM
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gabz
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2009-03-16 4:32 PM (#101489 - in reply to #101482)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back



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Try using the 3/4 rigging for 5 or 6, 1 hour rides and see how that goes. The 3/4 rigging will move it forward, so be sure you still have adequate clearance at the scapula (shoulder).

If the saddle is too long for you, you could add a spacer or add a fleece or gel cushion, that will take up length in the seat.

Is this a gaited horse? If so, a TWH, Rocky, or MFT? (does it move laterally or diagonally is what I want to know).

Does the horse have a dipped back? YOu might need a contour tree so that it rests fully on the muscles on either side of the spine.

It sounds like the saddle is bridging front to back to me. If the horse had a bad saddle before, he/she will have lost top line muscling to carry a saddle and rider.

If you want another opinion, contact Julie Cyra at West 20 Tack in Wisconsin. She can look at photos of your horse and advise you. She carries more than 15 different brands of saddle - including Tucker - and has been doing saddle fitting for more than 25 years.

242-642-4272

http://www.west20.com/

 



Edited by gabz 2009-03-16 4:39 PM
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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-03-16 4:53 PM (#101492 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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No, the horse is not gaited. He is an eleven year old Appaloosa that I got from someone who had taken him in as a rescue horse. I have owned him for 6 years.

The big ole heavy roping saddle that I rode him in for almost five years did fit OK EXCEPT it was too long. It had a 27 inch skirt. He does not have any muscle loss nor is his back dipped. The reason I stopped riding him in the roping saddle was because I wanted something lighter and easier for me to handle. I switched to the barrel saddle and had a person who was knowledgable check the fit of it and he told me that the barrel saddle definitely was bridging. I only used that barrel saddle for a short while before I found out the error of my ways. That same fella that told me about the bridging is the one who told me that I had to have a short skirted saddle because the horse is shortbacked. So, then I could not go back to the big ole heavy roping saddle either! So I started saddle shopping. Found this tucker (again only one of about 25 saddles tried that fit) and thought my problems were solved...but evidently NOT.

If the Tucker saddle is bridging it is undetectable standing still but I guess that could change when he is moving. It is frustrating because the blame saddle looks like it fits like a dream while he is just standing there and he seems more comfortable while being ridden, but I KNOW the spot(s) is NOT good. Hopefully with all the great ideas presented to me, I will find something that works. I will begin trying the suggestions as soon as it stops raining.

Thanks.
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randemtam
Reg. Jun 2007
Posted 2009-03-16 7:13 PM (#101503 - in reply to #101492)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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Is one of the pads you tried a Skito pad? Do you have any pictures?

Edited by randemtam 2009-03-16 7:15 PM
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huntseat
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2009-03-16 8:51 PM (#101516 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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lesliemal, I'm going to come from a different angle:

Have you tried working him in the saddle but without riding him?  (Saddle up and work in the round pen)  If so does the mark appear?

I'm thinking that your riding style might be causing the rub.  Could it be that you ride a little heavy on one hip/heel and that causes the saddle to shift and fit improperly?

If your horse rides head high that could hollow out his back and cause improper fit also.

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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-03-16 9:19 PM (#101527 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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Posts: 368
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Location: Georgia
It is still raining here. I will try and post some photos as soon as it becomes feasible.

I am not the best rider in the world so I will most defineltly try him without me in the saddle to see if I am the problem.

As soon as I can, I will post some photos of the horse and the saddle standing still and with me on board.

Again, I cannot stress how grateful I feel for all of ya'lls help. I am not the worst rider in the world nor am I no way near the greatest and it is nice to have the opininon of people more knowledgeable than I.

Leslie

Edited by lesliemal 2009-03-17 7:25 AM
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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2009-03-16 9:52 PM (#101533 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back




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Location: KY

Leslie

I am quite certain you are a fine rider;  anyone who notices things like you do is certainly doing a lot of things right.  In my ho it is not you, it is something in the way that saddle is made. 

Since it is raining, please turn that thing over and mash (press) with your fingers all under that saddle skirt. 

If you will get some baby powder, put it on the underneath of the saddle, then set the saddle on the horse, that may reveal the pressure points.  Then you can alter a felt pad to relieve the points.  JMHO.

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gabz
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2009-03-17 2:12 PM (#101599 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back



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Ditto what Rose said. If you are concerned - that says a great deal about your horsemanship.

 

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BlazingCreekBar
Reg. Nov 2008
Posted 2009-03-24 9:20 PM (#102029 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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I had a similar issue thru multiple saddles.  Finally after investing in my third saddle and being my third season with the same issue you describe, to my dismay my pal now has white hairs from the damage.  I was so upset.  I went back to were I bought the saddle to discuss this.  The dealer told me I was pulling my saddle to far forward on the whither's.  I thought he was NUTZ.  so we went home and tried his suggestion.  He said to stop placing the saddle were I thought it should go but center it from my center point in the saddle to my horses center point on his back.  Which turned out to be about two inches back than I had always placed the saddle.  Not a real big difference.  Well we are about ten rides in and the hair has not broken yet and.  I am satisfied with my adjustment.  Maybe this can help your situation out too.



Edited by BlazingCreekBar 2009-03-24 9:22 PM
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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-04-25 7:26 PM (#103943 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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Posts: 368
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Location: Georgia
Tried most of the things suggested and was still not satisfied that it was me or the horse. Well I sent the saddle back to Tucker. Turns out the tree was bad in the saddle. They are going to replace it and sent it back to me. Will let all know how the new "tree" works out. Thanks again for all the advice.

As a side note, since I sent the Tucker saddle back and I was without a saddle, I borrowed an Original Bob Marsall treeless saddle from my cousin. Wow! I really liked and my horse moves out really well under it. I have decided I want one for sure.


Edited by lesliemal 2009-04-25 7:34 PM
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BlazingCreekBar
Reg. Nov 2008
Posted 2009-04-26 4:56 PM (#103976 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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Very interesting... I have noticed my guys back is improving and the white hairs do not look as bad. Since I slipped my saddle back to the center of his back. The ride seems better and the sweat is more even. I wish you the best with your Tucker.
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Rockinghorserun
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2009-04-26 9:23 PM (#103988 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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The weather is hot and the horses are shedding.  I have a gelding I have been riding for years and the same saddle for 3 years.  Last week went on a weekend beach ride and rode for 5 hours.  I use a pro built up pad that rinses off easily. When I took the pad off he had matted hair right at the edge of the pad.  When I went to pull it off he dropped his back about 3 inches.  The shedded hair had rolled up and matted with his still attached hair and dried. This caused a friction with the edge of the saddle pad on both sides at the loin area.  I hosed him off and tried to remove it but he was too sore.  Finally by Thursday it was all cleaned up and no soreness. I went camping again this weekend and rode 3 hours (in the HEAT) with the same issue at the end of the ride.  I can't wait until they are completely shedded out.  I will be riding him with a different pad for the next couple weeks.

Edited by Rockinghorserun 2009-04-26 9:40 PM
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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2009-04-27 10:20 AM (#104017 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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couple of things- unless your vet is truly knowlegable about horses and saddles, I wouldn't bother. It takes a persons who knows horses,conformation and saddle trees and most vet just don't know much about it.I had a arabian gelding with a low back- some would call it sway. The saddle was bridging and the only thing that could fill that viod was a pillow. I put on a saddle pad then added a small pillow in the middle. Problem solved.In my years of horse ownership, this was the only horse that had a hard time with saddles fitting properly.I own one western saddle, an older Royal King I bought on ebay,it has sat on at least 5 of my own horses and it works. For my arabians, I do try and find saddle with shorter skirts otherwise they are hanging over their hips. Unless a horse has a really unusual conformation,the majority of saddles offered will fit,perhaps not perfectly but enough so they should not have serious problems.To your situation- I wonder if it has anything to do with the horses conformation, the way it travels or the way you sit????
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randemtam
Reg. Jun 2007
Posted 2009-04-27 8:19 PM (#104055 - in reply to #103943)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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As a side note, since I sent the Tucker saddle back and I was without a saddle, I borrowed an Original Bob Marsall treeless saddle from my cousin. Wow! I really liked and my horse moves out really well under it. I have decided I want one for sure.

Tell them to keep the Tucker and order a BMSS...LOL I love my treeless saddles. I had to part with my BMSS in order to purchase a Freeform but my friend LOVES the saddle. Good luck. 

 

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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-04-28 5:24 PM (#104134 - in reply to #101379)
Subject: RE: strange spot on horses back


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Posts: 368
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Location: Georgia
"Tell them to keep the Tucker and order a BMSS...LOL I love my treeless saddles. I had to part with my BMSS in order to purchase a Freeform but my friend LOVES the saddle. Good luck."

I wish I could make Tucker take the saddle back and give me my money back but they don't do refunds...I would have to take it back to the dealer..and I hate to bother her because she was so gracious with her time when I was looking for a saddle to fit the horse. I told the folks at Tucker I would give them ONE chance to make it right. I will see how it looks when it gets back.

In the mean time..I DID go ahead and order an Original Bob Marshall..I tried to find a used one but there are not many out there. Now I will have 2 dang high priced saddles! UGH!! but at least I know the Bob Marshall will work on many many horses. And the Bob Marshall was NOT as pricey as the Tucker.


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