This may have been posted here already, some scary stuff...More info on population growth....

http://www.superfactory.com/articles/meyer_what_in_the_world.htm

I think that was well written, and very informative. Without a political tilt.

Great read. Very informative.

Conservation is key. No question about it. We should be concerned about the enviroment. Although I can remember everyone saying that we were starting into our next ice age when I was a kid. 20-30 years later we have global warming. I guess what I am getting at is this...I don't believe that the warming is only being caused by us. That being said... Alternative fuels of some kind are going to break through. But fossil fuels are still around to stay for quite a while longer. If we can reduce our dependency on foreign oil by 1% or 99% why don't we do it? Drill here. Create jobs. That boosts our economy. That will bring the value of our dollar back up. And that will bring oil prices back down. And while doing that...work on alternative fuels and other types of power. But realize...even once alternatives are perfected, it isn't an overnight change. We are still years and years away from being indepedent from oil.

Actually the saying goes like this.  "Two of the best times to plant a tree are 20 years ago . . and today."

But your point is well taken.  We can't keep pondering our options . .. we have to start doing something.

Just got back from a week long family reunion in Florida and am absorbing all the information in this particular post.

First comment/thought/opinion: biggest lesson learned from my years as a journalist (before going to law school so i could earn a decent 'wage') was that every article, every newscast, etc may rely on facts, but those facts get so very skewed even when the writer diligently tries to stick "to the facts".  which is to say: all those articles and information cited should not be blindly accepted as 'the truth'.  each article may have some good points to consider, but don't bet your life on any of those articles being totally on point.  (my years as an attorney have taught me not to believe anything anyone says...almost!)

Second thought: i agree that conservation is one answer that we can all take part in and we can all start TODAY.  we used our old diesel ford excursion to drive the 14 hour trip to Florida.  but there were six of us (and at times i felt like a jumbo jet wouldn't have been big enough to keep the peace between the kids!).  but now that we are home, the driver's in our family swallow our "coolness" and share our VW jetta (diesel) which gets 45 mpg...seriously.  it has taken us awhile to get used to driving that small vehicle, esp since most of our driving is on I10, getting passed by numerous 18 wheelers, esp when we were all used to driving trucks.  WE WOULD NEVER HAVE BOUGHT THIS SMALL 'BORING' CAR until the high fuel prices forced us to find a way to conserve...our money.    the only way americans are going to actually get anything accomplished or change their habits is when they are affected directly, which usually means the pocketbook. 

so, we can argue all day about how much fuel is laying beneath us, which political party did or didn't do something they should or shouldn't have, etc and by the end of the day, it is very doubtful any of us is any closer to getting 100% of our facts correct.  but everyone of us can do a little bit toward conserving what we do have, not wasting our resources. so when i finish my bottle of merlot, i will recycle that glass container....

The issue isn't a lack of oil. There is PLENTY of it. Environmentalist have been predicting we'd run out since the 70's. These people have been proven wrong time and time again yet people still buy into them. There is NO Global Warming. None. Period.NADA. The earth has been in cooling and warming cylces from the start....mankind and our presence has had no effect, ill or otherwise, on this planet. In fact- one of the last warming periods came before the industrial revolution. Before AC,areisol cans,CFC's, internal combustion engines. We have no control over hurricans,tornadas,blizzards and yet somehow our daily lives as amercians can warm the earth just like that? Silliness.

Back to oil- face it, its the lifeblood of our ecomony and I for one am not ashamed if it.There is nothing wrong with it. Its just a fact of life and if we like having nice cars,warm homes,cooked food and a job to make it happen, then we have to get over this idea that somehow we can live without oil or live with less. We don't have to develope other sources. The problem can be solved in a snap ( figuratively speaking since I know its a long term outlook) if we wanted to. Another fact- this is a political problem. As long as we have politicans making the laws that reatrd the development of oil feilds, both on and off shore, we will have a dependence on where ever the oil comes from ( right now our biggest source of oil comes from canada and mexico) As long as we have politicans beholden to the wacky environmental left we won't have cheap and plentiful fuels even if we manage to develope alternative fuels ( oh and look where that has gotten us)

Wow. I guess the fact that the north pole will be water instead of ice this summer is incorrect. And since the industrial revolution, the co2 we're producing has no affect on the environment, the overpopulation of some areas doesn't contribute to pollution, the clear cutting of forests in some countries doesn't actually affect the weather patterns, that the large masses of corral that has died won't affect the sea life, that the species we've driven to extinction won't affect mankind? Love Canal didn't exist, superfund sites are fabrications, China doesn't have the worse pollution of the developed nations which is causing major health concerns. There was no Chernobyl, and the radiation didn't really kill thousands, The Exxon Valdez was really a schooner sailed by Ted Kennedy, and all the lawyers and courts are just making things up.

How many more paragraphs of examples to you have time to read?

mankind and our presence has had no effect, ill or otherwise, on this planet.

Please. Where can I buy the rose coloured glasses that you wear?

Gard

Once again ole Gard tries to convince someone of something with a bunch of "babble",

1. What does Chernobyl have to do with global warming?

2. What does the Exxon Valdez have to do with global warming?

3. By the way big guy, China's trash doesn't have anything to do with global warming.

But as usual, the facts don't matter if your a left wing tree hugging wackjob does it? Have you ever heard of sun spots? Did you know there are a lack of them now? How about the sun not sitting on a true axis(wobble), ever heard of that? Probley not............wouldn't want facts to get in the way of your "babble" would we. Now as far as the Artic Seas melting I guess all those people on the coast should run to higher ground because you wackjobs said/believe that the melting of the Artic seas is going to flood the coastlines.

This earth has went through incredible changes in the last million or so years, the Grand Canyon used to be a lake. The Rocky Mountains were formed beneath a glacier. The fertile soils of the heartland were deposited when the waters recided from the melting of the last ice age. We have been able to see some "changes" to this earth in our lifetimes, but nothing as incredible as what has "truely" happened in the history of the earth.

The last decade has seen the earth's average temperature drop .6 of a degree, that erases the last 110 years of warming that had been happening, but that's OK, the wackjobs can't let the truth mess up their story. By the way the CO emmissions you all always want to talk about........... the largest offenders of CO emmissions is cattle, and when they release it, it smells about as bad as your story on "global warming".

lets be clear- the so called sciencists only predicted the ice will melt over the pole. Its hasn't melted at all- yet another silly prediction from people known to be wrong- FACT-according to Dr. Roy Spencer of the University of Alabama at Huntsville, and Dr. Spencer said, "I saw that story.  There's a 50% chance the North Pole would be ice-free this summer?  I'd like to take those odds.  If anybody would bet me a thousand dollars, I would take those odds." And then he said, "Let me show you this.  The latest chart shows the Arctic has more sea ice right now than this time last year.  You can compare the beginning and end of the one-year plots because they got the chart here.  The black curve would have to go all the way to the zero line in order for this to happen, and it ain't going to happen." "...The ice area here is measured in million square kilometers, and at its least last summer in September and October of 2007, it was at about three million square kilometers.  As we speak, in June of 2008, it is at about ten million square kilometers."

Read this Gard and understand- environmentalist have a really bad track record in the prediction department.

Show me eveidence that clear cutting tress has affected the weather patterns- please...ok I'll save you the trouble. It hasn't. There is no globla warming- there is no science to prove it, there are not facts to back it up. Its all a myth,a lie,a hoax. All based on a computer model and has been proven wrong by real science.

If you really want to learn something read this-

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192544,00.html

Now I will state some things I feel strongly about,

We do need to find an alternative fuel source..........soon.

The stuff we put in the air is not good for us............

I enjoy flowers and fruit bearing trees, and I own both.

I drive the most fuel effiencient car I own for most of the miles I drive.......... I will not buy(spend) more on another car that will only marginally increase my miles per gallon.

I think that the carbon offset deal is a hoax/scam for someone/politician, just follow the cash.

It's all about supply and demand, just like the horse business right now. With oil/fuel we need to use less and drill for more. With Horses we need to produce less and expand the market. It is really that simple, no matter how complicated everyone wants to make it.

"Global Warming" is nothing other than a "Climate Change" this earth has been experiencing since the begining of time. Liberals/Treehuggers just hate the things that they are unable to "control or tax".

I would clarify this statement as Anthropologically caused global warming.

(Otherwise known as human caused global warming.)

There has been global warming and cooling cycles for longer than we humans have had industrial processes.  Our current use of fossil fuel is merely releasing solar energy captured by the Earth over a millennia.  Its release is like burning a candle in a room.  There is some heat input to the room, but it is insignificant to the wood stove input, also known as the Sun

Once again HW casts his lot, opening his mouth without reading the facts . The statement I was referring to was "mankind and his presence has had no effect, ill or other wise on this planet." Then HW comes out with these gems:

Those glasses are even better than I thought.

 Here's some ideas to consider:   http://news.mongabay.com/2008/0103-

pollution.html

Another one:  http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2010

HW Bar Gard ... Please refrain from personal attacks.  That's a sure way to get a discussion thread locked. (and deservingly so) 

I would like to use this forum for a civil discussion.  Some of the comments have merit and I would amplify on some of them. 

Let's keep to the facts as we know them and provide sources for further info.