Posted 2008-04-04 2:13 AM (#81113 - in reply to #81103) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Veteran
Posts: 296 Location: Tennessee
International builds the 6.0 for Ford also, but all they supply are the block, crank, and rods. Heads, turbo, injection, etc is pure Ford subcontract and it is rumored the engine is produced in Pakistan and South America.
2L, if the 6.0s were built overseas, why do they all have stickers on them that say the engines were built either in Indianapolis IN or Huntsville AL? Seems like Ford would be in pretty serious violation of FTC place of origin laws if the 6.0s weren't really made in the U.S.A.
Posted 2008-04-04 8:58 AM (#81141 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 406 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Here's little snip from the Diesel Stop.True or not, your decision.
I don't think it is accurate to say the HEUI injectors were developed by Caterpillar. I have never done any research to confirm what I was told but the people who told me should know. It is a long story, here is a short version. In the late 80's IH was looking for a fuel system for the future. They had talks with different fuel system mfgs and one of them was CAT. Caterpillar has their own fuel system mfg facility. IH had chosen to source their systems from other mfgs instead of manufacturing their own. This was a business decision. When talks began with CAT nothing resembling the HEUI system existed. The design and development of the HEUI system was a joint effort between IH and CAT. CAT's role was primarily hardware and IH the rest. Development took 7-8 years. These injectors were used by IH before they were used by CAT. The T444E may have been first. It has been a long time since I was provided this info, I hope I have remembered accurately.
Pretty much the story. The only part you left out was how CAT raced over to the US Patent office without telling their developement partner (and principle intellectual contributer) IH. That "sneaky little side trip" by CAT to the Gov't office really riled some folks at IH. Years later, insiders still fumed. But the business deal was struck, and continued despite the debate over who really earned the patent rights.The T444E was the first medium duty diesel engine to fully incorporate HEUI injectors and the electronic engine sensors and controls that drove them. HEUI technology was first brought to market on that engine, with introductions into heavy diesel engines made by both CAT and IH following quickly afterward.
The 6.0l Powerstroke, is, as I recall, the Navistar VT 365. Yes, Ford has changed minor items, and major things such as the fuel delivery system. But the bulk of the engine is the VT365.I'd bet I could buy a Navistar VT 365 long block, swap the engine controls, water pump, accessory mounting brackets, drop it in and call it the 6.0l Powerstroke.
Posted 2008-04-04 9:40 AM (#81150 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
The new 6.4 in the 2008 Ford pickups have the twin turbo setup. I guess, to make the required HP, hold down emissions and for quicker acceleration. The same engine in a Navistar International trucks has a single turbo.... Different emission standards for the bigger trucks along with a lower HP rating and probably more longevity.
Posted 2008-04-04 5:57 PM (#81194 - in reply to #81153) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by hounddog on 2008-04-04 10:52 AM
The 6.4 deput was a wimper compared to the 6.0 in 03.Not many issues.Ye think Ford was on its P and Q ?
The fact that Ford is dumping the 6.4L after 2 short years appears to be more than "gossip" and if it holds true, it will amount to more than a "hill of beans" to those who bought them. IMO, their customer's trucks will suffer from severe depreciation compared to comparable models.
Posted 2008-04-04 6:17 PM (#81198 - in reply to #81194) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Veteran
Posts: 296 Location: Tennessee
Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2008-04-04 5:57 PM
The fact that Ford is dumping the 6.4L after 2 short years appears to be more than "gossip"
It's only been 1 year, and do you have a link to this "fact"?
Posted 2008-04-04 6:21 PM (#81199 - in reply to #81198) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by Towfoo on 2008-04-04 7:17 PM
Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2008-04-04 5:57 PM The fact that Ford is dumping the 6.4L after 2 short years appears to be more than "gossip"
It's only been 1 year, and do you have a link to this "fact"?
There's a couple articles floating around about Ford's upcoming partnership with Peugot to build diesel engines. A "commercial" diesel is mentioned in the articles.
The 6.4L is not 2010 emmissions compliant. With Ford & IH's demise, one need only connect the dots to see that Ford is dropping the 6.4L after a whopping 2 year run, abandoning yet another red haired stepchild diesel, and moving to another new one in 2010.
Only thing that could save the 6.4L is if Ford & IH kiss & make up and do something to the 6.4 to make it pass 2010 regs.
Posted 2008-04-04 6:27 PM (#81200 - in reply to #81199) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Veteran
Posts: 296 Location: Tennessee
Ford and Peugeot have been building diesel engines in partnership for years. These are small passenger car engines sold in Europe and other countries, not SuperDuty engines.
Posted 2008-04-04 9:47 PM (#81216 - in reply to #81205) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Veteran
Posts: 296 Location: Tennessee
First story is over a year old and the idled Navistar plant that makes 6.4 engines is clearly no longer idle. Second story from June '07 is about small passenger car diesels for Euro market. Third story from 2005 and is also about Euro car diesel engines.
I searched before I asked if you had any links but didn't find any info that says Ford is dumping the 6.4. I also read five or six truck forums every day and have not seen any such info. Just wondering where you read it.
Posted 2008-04-04 11:08 PM (#81222 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Member
Posts: 21
Location: Poolville, Texas
The biggest advantage that Ford has right now is mileage. Because the odometer spins when you drag them behind a wrecker, helps increase percieved economy. Gotta be careful no fuel leaks out while being towed. Need all of the help that they can get.
The engines are marked where they pass emmissions.
Recieved our first Freightliner M2-112 this afternoon with the 450 HP Mercedes. Built in North Carolina, with a Mercedes, er, Detroit diesel series 60, I meant a Mercedes built in Brasil, oh yeah I meant, North Carolina. Who knows, who cares? I'll bet it will outpull the 450 in question.
Bottom line is Peugot, Cummins, I dont care if it is a Briggs and Stratton. When you are trying to operate on a 17.00 net profit per vehicle, you are already in trouble. And you don't have to surf the chatrooms or be the head checker at WalMart to figure that one out....
Posted 2008-04-05 8:29 AM (#81238 - in reply to #81222) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Veteran
Posts: 296 Location: Tennessee
No doubt if Ford goes under they obviously will discontinue the 6.4, but that's not what Paul said. He said that it was a "fact" that Ford was dropping the 6.4 after 2 years. It may be a fact, I don't know. That's why I asked if he had a link. So far no link. Where I'm from it's called "rumor" unless you have some proof.
Anyway, I'm not saying Ford will live or die or is better than other trucks. I'm saying that engines that are made in Pakistan or S.A. cannot be marked "Made in USA" without breaking the law. Like you said yourself in your post, "rumor."
Posted 2008-04-05 8:25 PM (#81289 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544 Location: Claxton, Ga.
No one has said what will happen to Ford Superduty trucks in 2010. It is all speculation. No one will know for at least another year and a little bit. Just my .02cts
Oh and whoever said the GM/Isuzu was the only proven diesel is hilarious. Far from the truth. If Ford would put a Navistar I-6 in the truck they would have a huge improvement. Same deal with the GM/Isuzu.
Posted 2008-04-05 8:55 PM (#81290 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Member
Posts: 21
Location: Poolville, Texas
Spooler
It may be hilarious, but it is the truth. As far as total reported percentage return to dealer for motor warranty. It doesn't matter what motor ford goes to, it still is not going to work, as long as it has to pass current emmissions AND fit under the hood AND run on the low sulphur fuel. None of them are. Have you folks noticed a drop in your economy since the switch to the new fuel?
I sure appreciate the comment about the inline 6. I have customized and handled a little over 2000 of them. But "IF" is a pretty good sized word.
I mean we ought to all be driving Fords, they can stop a cargo plane with a half ton.
Posted 2008-04-05 11:33 PM (#81298 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544 Location: Claxton, Ga.
2Lcustomtrucks
I don't drive a Ford that's for sure. I sure don't think that GM/Isuzu is the best package. Have they came a long way since first introduced, YES. Do they have more work to do, Yes. Is it the best truck, No. Reading stats off to me doesn't mean much. I can take any data you give me and make it look any way I want using my own formulas. Fact!! It's just like opinions. Everybody has one and I don't like getting into truck brand issues on a forum. It helps no one. The best advice I can give someone about buying a diesel truck is study the problems that are unique to everyone of them. Deciede how you are going to use it and what problems you think are acceptable to deal with. Then buy what you want. All the big 3 are lacking in one way or another.
Posted 2008-04-06 12:18 AM (#81299 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Member
Posts: 49 Location: Decatur, Texas
The only problem I am having with my Dodge is not having a mega cab in the cab-n-chassis model! I wanted the better 6 speed auto and Dodge only has it in the C&C model.
GM 3500 would not hold the weight, does great with no load, but add almost 17-k lbs. and thats all she wrote. Ford is not bad, I just WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER ONE unless they put the 7.3 back in them.
The trucks that 2L sells is what I need, but funds do not justify buying one yet!
Posted 2008-04-07 7:54 AM (#81364 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Rockin TK - I have to disagree with you on the DMax. On my third since 2002. Loved all three. And each one has been better than the last. Had one that GM replaced the injectors under warranty. Other than that, no issues. And I am pulling 17-18,000 every time I am loaded up.
I am going to get beat on for the rest of what I say, but oh well...
As far as Dodge...great engine but in my opinion the rest of the truck will fall apart around it.
Posted 2008-04-07 8:21 AM (#81366 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
But the rest of the truck dosen't fall apart around it.Lots of real high mileage Dodges out there with darn good interiors and bodys.Most hot shoters out there are in what? Dodges.
Posted 2008-04-07 8:35 AM (#81368 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Yep. You are right. I know a lot of hot shotters. And they do drive Dodges. Most of those guys will tell you it is for the engine. Around here anyways.
Posted 2008-04-07 8:43 AM (#81370 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Well I'm sure its for the engine foremost.Thats obvisous.But the rest of the truck holds up pretty good.Overall its a good package.My new Exiss trailer delivered to me from OKA.was brought in by a 05 Quad Cab Dodge 4x4. It had 556k and change on the odometer.Interior look used but not falling apart or shot.Body and rest of the truck was same way.
Posted 2008-04-07 8:58 AM (#81372 - in reply to #80966) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
I've had two of them. A '96 and a '99. The '96 ran great, relatively problem free. Not a bad truck. Hated the '99. A little over a year and 50K, I literally could not carry on a conversation in the cab at 70. Switched back to GM with an 02 DMax and I am on my third now. Loved all three of therm. I've looked at the newer Dodges, but it will be near impossible to get me to switch back. Never say never though...
Posted 2008-04-07 12:28 PM (#81389 - in reply to #81199) Subject: RE: Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
Location: Colorado
Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2008-04-04 5:21 PM
Originally written by Towfoo on 2008-04-04 7:17 PM
Originally written by PaulChristenson on 2008-04-04 5:57 PM The fact that Ford is dumping the 6.4L after 2 short years appears to be more than "gossip"
It's only been 1 year, and do you have a link to this "fact"?
There's a couple articles floating around about Ford's upcoming partnership with Peugot to build diesel engines. A "commercial" diesel is mentioned in the articles.
The 6.4L is not 2010 emmissions compliant. With Ford & IH's demise, one need only connect the dots to see that Ford is dropping the 6.4L after a whopping 2 year run, abandoning yet another red haired stepchild diesel, and moving to another new one in 2010.
Only thing that could save the 6.4L is if Ford & IH kiss & make up and do something to the 6.4 to make it pass 2010 regs.
I wonder what Ford does to the 6.4 liter that it doesn't comply with the 2010 regs. International announced last fall that all their engines will be 2010 compliant, and without using the SCR technology, which looks like a real can of worms. SCR has to do with urea injection to reduce NOX- I believe I read that CAT and Cummins will use this in order to meet the 2010 requirements.
I have heard the rumors about Ford and "their own" diesel engine in the near future, but so far, that's it- just rumors.
Lookin at a truck.... well kinda!
