Posted 2007-08-20 5:42 PM (#66169 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Veteran
Posts: 235 Location: Keymar,Maryland
All good points, good thoughts. I have no problem with slaughter and don't intend to tell anyone what they should or should not eat. Having said that I believe slaughter is a back end solution to a front loaded problem. Everyone has got it right. Too much breeding, and too much junk. All of our horses are grade or breeding stock. I don't need anything fancy to trail ride on. Virtually all of our dogs have come out of the pound and they have all been excellent. In a different twist wife wants a big dog again ( our's died last spring) as I'm often away and late. She found a breed she likes ( Anatolian Shepherd), the breeeder belongs to a " Code of Ethics". You must meet her in person, meet the dogs (they are not for everyone), and place a non refundable deposit. When she has enough deposits she will breed the dogs. Seems everyone regardless of animal should adopt something similar. No more puppy, horse, cat mills. Personally except for a few I've never seen how anyone makes any significant money in backyard breeding, one vet call and there goes the profit margin unless you intend to start the horse and add some kind of discipline value to it. Dismounts soapbox. Rich
Posted 2007-08-20 11:32 PM (#66176 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378 Location: Nebraska
The horse industry depends on the buying and selling of horses, but it also depends on being profitable. With the rule changes in breed organizations such as embroy transfers, and frozen semen, horse production has been up. Unfortunately not all of the horses become marketable, and if you are in the business of breeding and raising horses, an unsold horse becomes a libilitiy. And when the cash value of horses has no bottom limit, guess which horses become abused, neglected, and unwanted. I still think a cash incentive for responsible breeding and higher fees, is a long term solution. Thank you for your time.
Posted 2007-08-21 4:19 AM (#66181 - in reply to #66176) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Location: Brighton, Colorado
Neglected horses are part of the "race to the bottom" market. Increasing the fees and prices of organizations will only hurt those who are already responsible owners (taxing them) and nothing for those who are not. The "race to the bottom" are relying on selling quanity vs. quality, the super store mentality. So basically it would distinguish a line between those who can afford it and those who can not.
Posted 2007-08-22 8:36 AM (#66245 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Location: KY
So called back yard breeders are not producing the 50,000 plus unwanted horses per year. I do not understand the mentality of the anti slaughter people. If they do not want to send their horses to slaughter, then fine, don't do it. Whether I want to slaughter and eat my horse is my business and not the business of someone else.
The Wild Horse Protection Act is a perfect example of failure to envision the big picture and the logical progression to a very poor conclusion....that is, wild horses being held in corrals for years and years.
Posted 2007-08-22 12:02 PM (#66268 - in reply to #66245) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Expert
Posts: 2828 Location: Southern New Mexico
I agree with the slaughter thing. I don't like it, but I think it was necessary. I've also suggested a overpopulation plan for the mustangs but everyone thinks I'm nuts.
When ever they bring in or come across a herd, geld all the studs/colts. No foals for a few years with nature taking its toll on the herd will bring down the numbers. Do this every few years or so until the population is down to where the plains can handle them. Once the population is down where it needs to be, be selective about the colts you leave whole.
There would be no need for holding pens or adoptions.
Posted 2007-08-22 12:33 PM (#66272 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Veteran
Posts: 235 Location: Keymar,Maryland
A good idea Teri. Technically there are no " wild" horse herds in the US. They are feral, once domesticated, escaped and reverted. Also, while this may elicit flaming, horses are not indigenous to North America, actually an invasive species that these days every governmental body seeks to keep out ( snakehead fish, clams in the great lakes, etc.) Actually feral horse herds could be wholly eliminated except for the public outcry, and the lands would be in much better shape, reduce gov. regulation, taxes, etc, etc,etc. ( Hides under desk, Rich)
Posted 2007-08-22 12:41 PM (#66274 - in reply to #66272) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Expert
Posts: 2828 Location: Southern New Mexico
So I'm not nuts, someone agrees with me!!! I agree about the invasive species. We went to yellowstone this summer and there is a fish in the lake that if you catch and release it you can get a HUGE fine. I don't remember what it was, but they are using gill nets to try to kill it and if you catch them you are supposed to keep or kill it. I asked the ranger how a non native fish got in the lake and they said "someone put it there". I just figured it was one of those evasive government answeres for " we screwed up".
Posted 2007-08-22 1:16 PM (#66278 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489 Location: CA
Okay, here's a wild idea. You know how the animal shelters keep dogs, cats, rabbits, etc in a holding area, hoping someone will adopt, euthanizing after a while? Well, how about doing that for horses? It could be a business where you pick up unwanted horses, assess them, include vet for euthanizing (if necessary), and a tallow company for disposal. Actually, it could be run and advertized by tallow companies. Oh, and all studs would be gelded! I know, this sounds impractical, but maybe there's a way it could be profitable "enough" for the tallow companies. Just another one of my crazy, half-baked ideas with a slightly different slant from the rescue organizations.
Posted 2007-08-22 1:43 PM (#66283 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489 Location: CA
Yeah, I know. I was just thinking that the individual horse owner wouldn't be making a profit from "Old Gray", the tallow companies don't sell the meat for human consumption (do they?), and it would reduce the number of horses being starved or abused due to lack of money. The pick-up would be free. It seems there is no real good solution. I hope my horses realize how lucky they are! We keep them after their useful time is long gone....I sometimes think they "pretend" they're lame just so they can kick back in the lap of luxury!
Posted 2007-08-22 5:23 PM (#66295 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Location: KY
Terri I also agree with your "gelding" management idea.....as well as Rich on the issue that the horse is not native.....But, why not pack the meat? If the horse is slaughtered or euthanized, either way it is dead...... And slaughter can be handled humanely..........
Romantic fantasy notions of "do-gooders" make a lot of mess..........
Posted 2007-08-23 6:49 AM (#66338 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Member
Posts: 18
Location: Texas
from my understanding you cannot slaughter a horse for human consumption...however, the slaughtering of horses for animal consumption (ie: large cats in zoos, dog food...even though its rarely used for that anymore) are permitted...I think most of, if not all of the slaughter plants closed because they were providing meat to be shipped to europe...however, a lot of the horse buyers that used to buy up sale barn horses and take them to the nearest plant continue to buy them up and haul them to mexico...so the horse that would have had to endure a 2 hour trailer ride, now has to endure a 20 hour trailer ride....and lets just say that trip isnt exactly as luxurious as shipping w/ Equine Express...while I have romantic desires (every horse has a proper home and proper care)...I have a realistic outlook (something must be done with the "undesirables")....until the horse community takes responsibility for the situations they create...it will continue to be an ugly problem....
Posted 2007-08-23 5:08 PM (#66372 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Regular
Posts: 91 Location: Small Town, Texas
Terri, Rich and Superfly I think you all hit the nail on the head.
We were at the horse custion last night and all 3 kill buyers were there. One even had his big 18 wheeler with the big 2 floor stock type rig there There were the horses penned in the back all beat up from trailer ride. Atleast they do unload them for the day while he is here. Then back on the truck they go with more that are bought. I am actually friends with one of them but just can never bring this up with him but I sure wondered where they were going. Then on the way home my 14 year old son said you know mom the slaughter may not be legal but they are trucking them somewhere to slaughter.
I hate this issue and I would hate for my horses to end up there but we must be realistic and for the industry when these buyers were buying big time at our sales they sure could run the price up on a horse. So everyone was very happy.
Posted 2007-08-23 6:47 PM (#66379 - in reply to #66372) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Expert
Posts: 2828 Location: Southern New Mexico
I thought it was illegal to use a double decker trailer for horses. I also thought the anti slaughter law banned transport out of the country with the intent of slaughter.
Posted 2007-08-24 12:19 AM (#66385 - in reply to #66379) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Member
Posts: 18
Location: Texas
Pennsylvania, (PA) and New York,(NY) have the strongest laws in the United States that ban outright the use of the inhumane double deck cattle trailers to transport any horse no matter what its final destination. Vermont, (VT) and Massachusetts, (MA) also have outright bans of the inhumane double deck trailers for horses.Several other states have legislation regulating the use of double deck trailers to transport horses including, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Minnesota, and Virginia. The regulation allows for the trailers use as long as the trailer meets certain requirements. Im not sure if there has been any additional states added since the above was posted on an equine welfare website... the bill does state that its illegal to transport with the intent to slaugter...but proving that truck is bound for slaughter is impossible unless you stop him pulling into the slaughter yard and off loading....while most intelligent people can put 2 snd 2 together...unfortunately thats not how prosecution works...."beyond a reasonable doubt"....about all you could hit them with is cruelty if there are unsuitable hauling conditions....but even then its HIGHLY unlikely....the time it would take to hold them on the side of the road...obtain a seizure warrant...and find a place to house only God knows how many horses on a truck would work its way into a 4th amendment violation....then it makes it to court and and the driver claims he purchased all these poor horses at auction where they had been abused and is taking them home to rehab....yeah right...but its a defense that will unfortunately stand up in court because you likely cant prove it otherwise
Posted 2007-08-24 7:36 AM (#66390 - in reply to #66388) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Veteran
Posts: 294 Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Technically, horse slaughter has been going on for tens of thousands of years. It was a great favorite of Cro-Magnan man. Personally, I don't want to eat horse-just can't imagine it tasting that good-but if someone else wants to that's fine with me. I am a beef eater and millions find that offensive. And yes, slaughter still goes on, they now ship the horses to Mexico for most of it. So rather than get Congress to institute better laws on pain free slaughter, we outlawed it and the horses now suffer immensly by being trailered long distances, usually without food and sufficient water; and then are killed by who knows what kind of methods.
Posted 2007-08-24 10:59 AM (#66396 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489 Location: CA
So sad. I just got an e-mail from a good friend looking for temporary housing for 2 paint mares with newborn foals who were headed to the killers. What happened? Did the foals not have the right color? Did the breeder not have enough money to vet and feed them? I asked the hubby if we could help out....He said "NO WAY!". Darn. He knows me too well. I'd get attached and we'd end up keeping the little buggers!
Posted 2007-08-24 1:09 PM (#66403 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Veteran
Posts: 219 Location: Mt. Clemens, MI 48043
This is the only information I have received about the horse slaughter. There are web sites that will bring you up todate. I belong to CANTER but not every horse can be adopted. Sometimes people do not see the big picture - straving animals, not enough money, time or personnel to take care of them. I live day by day with my paycheck. I understand what it means to either pay a bill or feed my animals. I wish I could win the lottery then I might change my mind about things. I cherish my animals they seem better than my family.
Horse Slaughter to End in Illinois!!
SPRINGFIELD, ILLINOIS (May 16, 2007) – The Illinois Senate today voted 39 to 16 to ban horse slaughter for human consumption, following the measure’s overwhelming approval last month in the state’s House of Representatives. While meeting with the Society for Animal Protective Legislation (SAPL) and Bo Derek, Governor Rod Blagojevich reaffirmed his support and promised to sign the bill immediately upon passage. DeKalb, Ill. is home to the Cavel International Inc. horse slaughterhouse, one of the three foreign-owned plants remaining in the United States. It is the only plant actively killing horses, but will have to stop immediately once this act is signed in to law.
“Passage of this bill is an historical step for improving the welfare of America’s horses,” said SAPL Deputy Director Chris Heyde. “We are grateful for the leadership of Senator John Cullerton, as well as Representative Bob Molaro, Governor Blagojevich and the Illinois Department of Agriculture in finally putting an end to the practice in their state.”
Illinois Department of Agriculture Director Chuck Hartke stated that horse slaughter “is inhumane because our society considers horses to be companion animals or pets.” He continued, “There is no domestic market for horse meat for human consumption and therefore no need to continue this practice in the state of Illinois.”
Dedicated activist and actor Bo Derek played a crucial role in raising awareness for the bill, traveling to Illinois with SAPL again this year to discuss the issue with state lawmakers. “Horses are an essential part of the American spirit,” she said. “As a lifelong equestrian and horse owner, I am overjoyed that the Illinois legislature has voted to protect these magnificent animals from this inhumane industry.”
In the US Congress, the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act has been introduced as H.R. 503 and S. 311 to end horse slaughter for human consumption and prevent the animals’ export for the same purpose. Passage of the federal legislation is critical now to ensure America's horses aren't simply exported to an even worse fate outside of the US. For more information on the national bill, please visit www.saplonline.org/horses.htm.
As the legislative arm of the Animal Welfare Institute, the Society for Animal Protective Legislation is the unsurpassed leader in obtaining laws to benefit animals in need, including the protection of domestic and wild horses.
Posted 2007-08-24 2:39 PM (#66410 - in reply to #66396) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Expert
Posts: 1989 Location: South Central OK
Gemm, your friend while having good intentions shouldn't have bought horses without having a home already secured...these are the types of situations that make people realize horse slaughter is a necessary evil, whether we want to admit it or not. Another example of piss poor planning and bad breeding causing animals to pay the price for human stupidity.
Just because a horse has color does not make it a paint, it makes it a pinto. Just because a horse could make babies doesn't mean it should! Breed junk and you get junk.
I lived near the Kaufman slaughter plant and it never caused any issues, instead it was a business that took care of a large problem.
Posted 2007-08-24 2:42 PM (#66411 - in reply to #66086) Subject: RE: Unwanted horses
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1069 Location: MI.
I am disgusted to see so many horses being sold as breeding prospects when phenotypically they are of mediocre quality. I'm so sick of hearing he/she is by/out of this and that! Pedigree is warranted but the horse has to be a positive representation of it. What the heck is standing in front of you right now? Do these people ever ask themselves this? Apparently NOT! Do these people research two, three and four generations back to find out the positives and negatives within the pedigree? How on earth can one breed up if you're not educated with this? Why breed?..........I know, even when educated, mother nature isn't always cooperative along with other issues associated with horses that can no longer be used. Slow down on the breeding..........Some people need a major reality check. We need to get back to what the horse truely represents and the major sacrifices they have given to man. They deserve respect..........They've more than earned it.
Unwanted horses
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Did the breeder not have enough money to vet and feed them? I asked the hubby if we could help out....He said "NO WAY!". Darn. He knows me too well.
I'd get attached and we'd end up keeping the little buggers!