Posted 2006-09-17 5:23 PM (#48672 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Location: KY
"Is it against the law in this country to sore horses feet? Or "block" them? I was just wondering."
The answer to your question is "yes." It is a violation of the Horse Protection Act (federal). And I believe certain "practices" might warrant an "animal cruelty" charge under Tennessee state law.
By the way, a foundered horse is not necessarilty "dead lame." It depends on the animal, the degree of rotation of the coffin bone, the amount of separation of the laminae, whether there is any abscess. Many "foundered" horses can be brought sound by using heartbar shoes. protective padding or padded footwear such as the Sabre sneaker.
As an equine vet once told me, if there were a nuclear holocaust, two creatures would suvive: the cockroach and the Tennessee Walking Horse.
Posted 2006-09-17 9:41 PM (#48684 - in reply to #48674) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Columbia, TN
First let me say that I dont like any cruelty to horses. I don't think they should be sored, I dont, think they should be bled to make them calm and lower their head and I don't think they should be drugged or stood in ice so they can run. The Walking horses are 400% cleaner than they used to be. I have been a ring man at shows for 20 years and the horses feet look good as I have to inspect them before the judge turns in his card but that does'nt make them completely sound. The problem arose because the trainers would run and hide every time the USDA showed up at the shows they would load up and leave. So this ticked off the UDSA and they new they would be at the Celebration and have to show so the USDA was a little unfair in their inspection of the horses especially the ones that ran and hid. Can't blame them much though. The trainers were trying to thumb their noses at the GOV and you can't fight those boys. As far as Frist is concerned he doesn't know one end of a horse from another he is a surgeon. All he was wanting was a fair treatment of the inspection. I am not sure this will get fixed in a year or two. Some of the trainers are just like the Nascar boys they will cheat any way they can to win. This being said I spend a lot of money trying to keep mine perfectly sound so I can go Trailriding and out of any pain. I don't like riding around in a circle.
Posted 2006-09-17 11:49 PM (#48689 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Veteran
Posts: 127 Location: PA
Oh dear.......just a few weeks ago I had put in a post on all of the difficulty I was having just getting my Arabian gelding's ears and nose whiskers clipped for a small local show. He won that day...with furry ears and long whiskers and was barefoot too. (and yes, he did have competition)
My problem seems miniscule compared to wood blocks, chains, golf balls ..............Does it not seem ironic that people will do these things to a horse for money and ribbons but at the same time argue about sending a horse to slaughter?
Posted 2006-09-18 5:37 PM (#48728 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Location: KY
Ice Crm: Thank you for your post. Your insight into the controversy does explain a lot of what went on.
Beth: Even when I show I don't clip the feathers off my twh and don't clip his ears. Sometimes we place, and sometimes we don't. At my stage of life, I am just glad to be able to go. We trail ride alot but sometimes I just want to get dressed up and go to a show. I figure if my horse and I have a good ride in the ring, that is good. If we don't, I try to figure out how I messed him up.
So there you go..............there are horsepeople and then there are people who own horses. I think mine own me.
Posted 2006-09-19 8:17 AM (#48772 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Veteran
Posts: 143 Location: southeast U.S.A.
I believe that this kind of behavior will surely continue, this is obviously human nature as it is seen in so many aspects of life. For some reason certain people seem to have little to no compassion for anything or anyone other than themselves. You'll allways have cock fights,bull fighting,pit bull fighting,etc.It may seem a poor comparison between these things and soring of a horses feet but the truth is it all comes down to the same thing,causing pain of an animal purely for the entertainment and monetary gain of humans.I've found it way to common to meet someone on the trail or at the campground that after about thirty minutes of talking to them find out that they solved there horses behavour problems with a 2 by 4 between the ears! Usually after reflecting back on the conversation with them I would recall that this seemed to be there attitude towards other aspects of life as well.They all seem to have this"I'M THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS" attitude. I personally feel that horses,dogs,roosters,etc.feel pain just like I do and deserve to NOT have it purposely inflicted on them just the same as I wouldn't want it inflicted on myself, but then again,I don't feel as thou that I'M the only thing in this world that matters.
Sure it'll go on, it has since as long as anyone can remember!
Posted 2006-09-29 9:21 AM (#49349 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Member
Posts: 40 Location: Richmond, VA
Nothing makes me sicker than what people do to horses. Any horse subjected to soring, or heavy shoes or chains or ANYTHING that FORCES them to go in a way they wouldn't go is abuse.
It makes me ashamed to be human to see what people will do to innocent animals for "sport".
Unfortuantely, the TWH people and other disciplines like them have proven that they are incapable of self regulating. There is no choice left but for the government to become involved.
Posted 2006-09-29 5:17 PM (#49395 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Now thats a real tree hugger attitude.So for centurys horses that were put to work were abused is what your saying.Horses have been in "chains" and "shoes" of various weights for centurys.The horse is classified as a beast of burden.
Posted 2006-09-30 6:50 AM (#49422 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 301 Location: Catoctin Mtn, Maryland
Houndog: I think you are blowing this subject way out of whack. You call this person a "tree hugger" because they feel that "soring of feet" is abuse. Give me a break. No one is talking about what the hell happened a hundred years ago and you know it. And whatever was done to horses back many years ago was most likely for "survival purposes" not for the frigging "SHOW" or the "MONEY" like you "ALWAYS" seem to mention. Just because things were done the same years ago doesn't make them right today. Women couldn't vote years ago, Blacks were in slavery years ago, children worked in mines and factories years ago. The list is never ending from "years ago".
Posted 2006-09-30 10:09 AM (#49433 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
That person mentioned chains on a horses legs and heavy shoes(other then a keg).Chains don't mean SORING.Special shoes don't mean soring.Chains and special shoes have been on horses for centurys and in less then a hundered years.Special shoes for loggers.Fre house horses had lots of interesting shoes to grab cobble stone etc.Chains and leather been used all over horses bodys with the differant shoes for millinium.I kinda see the argument some of the walking horse world has.A calous does not mean the animal has been sored.It could mean that but not in every case.A OPEN statement of NOT to use chains or heavy shoes on a horse of any discepline for the benifit of showing or to change a way of going sounds like a tree hugger,Fosh or a Peta activist.I dislike most of THAT attitude as much as I do trainers and people that really sore a horse in all the ways it can be done.Both of these type people are at eaither end of the debate.Extremists and thats how I read that persons post.
Posted 2006-09-30 5:02 PM (#49442 - in reply to #49433) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 301 Location: Catoctin Mtn, Maryland
Okay Houndog, it's obvious your a complete "hard-head". The way the post reads, in the real world, is this person is obviously talking about the extreme means being used to alter a horses looks, movement etc, for the benefit of SHOW, good grief. Sometimes people write what they feel about subjects and don't completely EXPLAIN themselves. They don't always dot their eye's and cross their T's like they should. And now you've added Fosh (what is that by the way, friends of the state highway, friends of sh#t heads, friends of sick horses?) and PETA. Your post is beyond comprehension.
By the way, I completely understood what that person was trying to say. So you'd better be carefull what you call people...........because if you knew me you would know that I'm the FARTHEST thing from being a tree hugger or PETA activist. I have no clue what FOSH is, so for sure I'm not that.
Posted 2006-09-30 7:47 PM (#49451 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
The post didn't sound to me like something was missed.Sounded pretty clear.FOSH.Friends of sound horses mainly TWHBEA.They have been heavy involved in the debate thats going on with that breed.Do a web search just type in FOSH.
Posted 2006-10-01 11:05 AM (#49467 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
I have an open mind, but horses and other creatures that we have stewardship over and care for are for OUR pleasure and use.God gave us dominion over the animals which also comes with the responsabilty of stewardship.God put the animals here to serve us and in exchange we must care for them to the best of our ability.We have been given the intellegence and ability to breed form to function into our animals so that they can perform to our expectations.
Posted 2006-10-01 8:31 PM (#49487 - in reply to #49486) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Expert
Posts: 1883 Location: NY
Hounddog- Breed for form to function just for OUR pleasure who is god here??? I say if god did not put it in them then leave the horse as you found it.
Posted 2006-10-02 12:08 PM (#49500 - in reply to #48572) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Regular
Posts: 67 Location: Romulus, Michigan
If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones! In case you don't understand -- EVERY single breed of horse that SHOWS has issues with regard to "inhumane" treatment to get those horses doing what they do. Other breeds should stand behind the TWH people because the government has no business in ours and they'll be in yours next. What's next -- the USDA monitoring "little league" parents?
No one wants a "sore" horse, but give me a break here. Show horses are athletes and they stretch their physical limits just as human athletes do. A good TWH can do a lot -- a lot of action up front and a lot behind.
Posted 2006-10-02 3:59 PM (#49515 - in reply to #49500) Subject: RE: Soring horses
Veteran
Posts: 143 Location: southeast U.S.A.
Originally written by shequila16 on 2006-10-02 12:08 PM
If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones! In case you don't understand -- EVERY single breed of horse that SHOWS has issues with regard to "inhumane" treatment to get those horses doing what they do. Other breeds should stand behind the TWH people because the government has no business in ours and they'll be in yours next. What's next -- the USDA monitoring "little league" parents?
No one wants a "sore" horse, but give me a break here. Show horses are athletes and they stretch their physical limits just as human athletes do. A good TWH can do a lot -- a lot of action up front and a lot behind.
I'm not so sure that I understand ! You seem to be saying We should all stand behind the TWH people for soring there horses feet cause as a society we want to have the right to be inhumane to other breeds as well? All of this on the premise that it would be the objectable for the government to become involved and ruin it for everyone,maybe look into"little league" parents next. I'll have to agree that government involvement will not stop this practice and would likely make a further mess of things. The reason for the problem to start with is people that "stretch their physical limits" with no concern for the wellfare of the animal! As I stated in an previous post and has been stated in other posts since, When it comes to money and/or prestiage SOME people will do most anything and condone most anything for the sake of same.
As for the government monitoring little league parents, Both of my son's played pee-wee (little league) football and I really must say that many of the parents were so out of line that they should have been removed from the spectater stands and made to wait in there cars! I personally told both of my boys this story at the beggining of there stint in football.Here is what I said:
You know when You're sitting at the table Thursday night and want to talk about tomorrows big game and how badly that You and Your team want to win and how hard that you've practiced and want to do your best? There's a boy on the other side of town thats doing the same thing tonight and he's been practicing hard,wants to win,and is willing to do his best,just the same as you! My eldest son was elected player of the year in his senier year by not only the high school that he attended but by the county wide newspaper as well, He took this honor and was picked from all the players in the entire county. Nothing could have swelled my chest any more than to know that he received this honor without disliking his opponents or thinking that he deserved to win more than them, To the contrary,few of the teams opposition(either won or lost!) wanted to leave the field without wanting to meet my son and shake his hand. Seen my son on many occasions knock his opponent on his can and stop and give him a hand up afterwards! He touched the heart of so many that came to the games with his understanding of what the game really meant!
So go ahead and condone soring or any other type abuse that You will, Adorn your mantil with as many trophy's and ribbons as you can acquire,Use whatever tactics that You deem appropriate and try to get the same pride that comes with doing things honestly. Like I told my sons so many years ago, if you're going to have to cheat to win, You might as well have stayed home cause in the long run you'll have lost more that way than if you'd lost on the field. I know that I can't stop You, the government can't stop you nor can the breed associations stop you, I know that You can hide the way that you won from the entire world, but one person that you can't hide it from is Yourself.