Posted 2013-06-03 11:26 AM (#152424 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385 Location: high desert, CA.
Has anyone mentioned the sensor on the wheels that signals the ABS?I fht sensor is not giving the computer the correct signals, the truck will buck like crazy. It is not hard to replace the sensors, and I have seen some folks have problems from just snow, or mud getting on the sensor, and it giving the signals crossed.
Posted 2013-06-06 1:23 PM (#152518 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
Had the truck to the shop on Tuesday. They checked the controller and the ABS and found no faults being pulled by the systems. They also said that installing an after market brake controller was not a good idea as it would conflict with the integrated one. Some internet searching has turned up several approaches to install an after market controller, but it sounds like the system will pull errors that can't be worked around. I did take the trailer out and used just the slide bar for braking, and found that even when the gain was turned up all the way, the brakes where not fully engaged with the slide. They worked, but not enough to stop the truck & trailer. Never did get them to "lock". However, the higher the gain the worst the bucking when I applied the truck brakes on the rough road. Trailer goes to the shop on Monday. I'm hoping to be able to tow it with a friends truck this weekend. I don't understand what the difference is between using the slide on the brake controller and using the truck brakes? When you use the slide, only the trailer brakes work?
Posted 2013-06-06 2:02 PM (#152519 - in reply to #152518) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Expert
Posts: 2615
Am I understanding this right when you say that they told you installing an after-market brake controller for the trailer was a "bad idea?" (Such as a Tekonsha,etc)? if so,are they nuts???
Posted 2013-06-06 3:18 PM (#152520 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
Yes, installing an after market controller is considered a bad idea. My understanding is that the brake controller wiring in the newer trucks is tightly integrated with the truck braking system. There is not a way to separate the braking signal given by an aftermarket controller and the integrated one. Without seeing a wiring diagram I don't think I can fully explain this, but I get the general gist of it, and it sucks. What where they thinking? Hopefully the shop will find something wrong with the trailer. If not I'll be trying all of my friends different trucks to figure out which one will work with my trailer. LoL.
Posted 2013-06-06 4:37 PM (#152521 - in reply to #152518) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
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Posts: 489
Originally written by bjhouten on 2013-06-06 1:23 PM
. I don't understand what the difference is between using the slide on the brake controller and using the truck brakes? When you use the slide, only the trailer brakes work?
Correct when you use the switch on the brake controller on the trailer brakes engage not the tow vehicle brakes.
Posted 2013-06-08 8:33 AM (#152543 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Elite Veteran
Posts: 821 Location: Tenn/Ala.
It is fairly common to install an underdash controller in a truck with an Integrated unit. There are many trailers out where the E/H actuator will not work with the IC, particularly the GMs. One simply installs it and connects to the brake pin in the receptacle instead of the factory unit. We have always done it this way so the factory IC can be returned to service later if desired. If a body wanted to, I see no reason why a seperate plug in couldn't be run for a Prodigy and leave the IC alone also if so inclined- but we've not seen the need for this.
Posted 2013-06-08 10:17 AM (#152546 - in reply to #152543) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Expert
Posts: 2615
Originally written by RTSmith on 2013-06-08 8:33 AM
It is fairly common to install an underdash controller in a truck with an Integrated unit. There are many trailers out where the E/H actuator will not work with the IC, particularly the GMs. One simply installs it and connects to the brake pin in the receptacle instead of the factory unit. We have always done it this way so the factory IC can be returned to service later if desired. If a body wanted to, I see no reason why a seperate plug in couldn't be run for a Prodigy and leave the IC alone also if so inclined- but we've not seen the need for this.
I'm sorry if I sound stupid,but,here goes: are you saying that truck manufacturers expect their integrated systems to be enough to stop whatever trailer load a truck owner happens to have behind them?
Posted 2013-06-09 12:37 AM (#152548 - in reply to #152520) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Member
Posts: 7
Location: Pedricktown, NJ
Hi again, I think if you can't get this issue worked out, I really liked what the poster had to say in Post #151709 about taking the "sounded like trailer dealership" for a ride in the truck, and they finally determined that something wasn't right, and they ended up re-wiring the entire trailer. The thing of it is, you know what your doing, you said you have hauled for years with different set-ups and had not had these issues. You just bought this trailer, get them to fix the issue before things aren't under any type of warranty any longer. I believe it could be a case of bad wiring somewhere that just can't be detected with their systems. I'm sure you didn't spend the money to worry about having issues like this. I know the last thing I want on my mind when I'm going somewhere with my horse is getting them their safely. Of all the other things that we as equine owners worry about, the last thing you need to worry about is what your hauling them in. I think you are trying to do everything right... Just don't let anyone tell you it's just something you have to deal with. Really check out that earlier post again, as I'm sure you read it the first time.
P.S. I appreciate what you had to say about the truck manufacturers thinking that their systems should integrate with everything out their. As I'm looking to buy a new lq horse trailer, and have narrowed down my search to a possible 4 Star, I would really like to know how they handle this issue and/or what turns out to be the resolution or problem. I'm sorry I didn't really see if said you were hauling with a dually or single rear axle? Just for my own personal knowledge. Best of luck with this issue.
Posted 2013-06-14 12:03 PM (#152744 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
I'm hauling with a single axle. The trailer was not bottoming out the truck, but I did add the Timbren Suspension to the truck. Keeps the truck from settling so low. I haven't had a chance to tow with another truck yet, but might get to do that this weekend. I took it to the shop, but they didn't get to it, so it goes back next Monday (6/17) evening. One thing and another came up and they couldn't get to it. It happens.
Posted 2013-06-14 4:01 PM (#152755 - in reply to #152546) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Elite Veteran
Posts: 821 Location: Tenn/Ala.
Originally written by crowleysridgegirl on 2013-06-08 10:17 AM
Originally written by RTSmith on 2013-06-08 8:33 AM
It is fairly common to install an underdash controller in a truck with an Integrated unit. There are many trailers out where the E/H actuator will not work with the IC, particularly the GMs. One simply installs it and connects to the brake pin in the receptacle instead of the factory unit. We have always done it this way so the factory IC can be returned to service later if desired. If a body wanted to, I see no reason why a seperate plug in couldn't be run for a Prodigy and leave the IC alone also if so inclined- but we've not seen the need for this.
I'm sorry if I sound stupid,but,here goes: are you saying that truck manufacturers expect their integrated systems to be enough to stop whatever trailer load a truck owner happens to have behind them?
Sorry for the delay. I didn't see your reply.
What I am referring to is there are trailers out there with electric/hydraulic brakes that will not activate/work with the factory built in controllers. We just ran into a '12 GM the other day that didn't recognize when the trailer was hooked up- so it therefore wouldn't send any power back to the trailer. We installed a Prodigy P3 under the dash and all's well. The Tekonsha controllers seem to operate all of the electric/hydraulic units that I recall running across.
Posted 2013-06-18 9:36 PM (#152843 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Location: Canada
My Bucking GM truck. I am having similar problems and wonder about the abs interaction with the integrated controller. 2011 k3500 DRW and a 2004 Jamco trailer. Trailer worked fine from new with my 2005 truck and only problem is with new truck. At first also had non-functioning left turn signal/brake light and thought it was linked.Trailer repair: Replaced plug and redid brakes.Truck (GM Dealer): Replaced both bed and bumper receptacles and redid connector under chassis. They said forward wiring is enclosed and integrated so nothing could be done.Right now: All lights work. No bucking on manual trailer brake activation. Bucking started 3 hours into journey and only occurs under more heavier braking. That's why I'm wondering about the abs. The dealers are very quick to say normal.
Posted 2013-06-19 9:05 AM (#152848 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
My trailer is in the shop and I hoping to get it back this afternoon. If having the brakes serviced doesn't fix the problem I'll be looking for someone to put an after market brake controller in my Chevy 2500 HD. All of this troubleshooting got me more interested in towing capacities. I wanted to make sure I was not towing to much trailer. It took some searching but here is what I found out about the 2012 Chevy 2500 HD long bed Duramax. With a gooseneck hitch it can tow 17,800 lbs. It has a max pin weight of 3,500. The rear axle is rated at 6,200. The Truck combined max weight is (GVWR) 10,000 lb, and the truck weight between 5K & 6K depending on options. The max combined weight for truck & trailer is 24,500 lbs (GCWR). The max weight (GVWR) for my horse trailer is 14,750. So 6K (truck) + 14750 (trailer) = 20,750 lb. I found a truck scale that is on the way home from the trailer shop, so I'll be weighing my rig when I pick up my trailer. My guess is my combined weight is going to be around 16K without horses & hay. Well under the max for my truck.
Posted 2013-06-21 9:30 AM (#152871 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
Latest update. Trailer back from the shop and it's still bucking. The brakes and bearing are in excellent condition with 50% pads left. They checked all the wiring from the pigtail plug to the brakes. He told me I have 8,000 lb axles on the trailer.I took the trailer and got it weighed. Truck and trailer are 17,620 lbs together without horses and hay, but everything else, tack, water, etc... Max combined weight for the truck is 24,500 lbs. Just the trailer by itself is 10,140 lb, max GN tow weight is 17,500. Next thing to do is tow it with someone else's truck and see what happens.
Posted 2013-06-21 8:53 PM (#152882 - in reply to #152871) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by bjhouten on 2013-06-21 9:30 AM
Latest update. Trailer back from the shop and it's still bucking. The brakes and bearing are in excellent condition with 50% pads left. They checked all the wiring from the pigtail plug to the brakes. He told me I have 8,000 lb axles on the trailer.I took the trailer and got it weighed. Truck and trailer are 17,620 lbs together without horses and hay, but everything else, tack, water, etc... Max combined weight for the truck is 24,500 lbs. Just the trailer by itself is 10,140 lb, max GN tow weight is 17,500. Next thing to do is tow it with someone else's truck and see what happens.
Whoever gave you that Max combined for a 2012 2500 Crewcab was being generous...read the following article http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/05/tow-ratings-adjust-for-2013-gm... You need to get your ACTUAL pin weight...AND HOPE your are NOT exceeding your Rear Axle rating...the other issue you need to check is to determine your trailer is LEVEL and not riding the rear axle at the expense of the trailer's front axle...
Posted 2013-06-23 3:12 PM (#152902 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
"The largest drop in tow ratings came in selected 2500 models with 5th-wheel and gooseneck hitches. For example, a two-wheel-drive regular-cab long bed with the Duramax diesel and 3.73:1 axle was rated at 17,800 pounds using a 5th-wheel hitch. For 2013, the rating drops to 14,400 pounds. A four-wheel-drive Extended Cab long bed with the diesel and a 3.73:1 axle saw its rating drop from 15,700 pounds to 10,900 pounds."
The above is from the article you posted, so the 17,800 for the GN is valid for the 2012. The change is weights is due to a change in standards.
With these new numbers anyone that tows anything at all will be buying a dually. :-)
I got the 17,800 number off of the Chevy website and it's listed above. But even at the 14,400 I'm still under. My truck is crew cab long bed duramax. Even if my actual pin weight is 25%, I'm still under the 3,500 lb pin weight and the 6,200 rear axle max. Any way, I towed my trailer with a F350 today, and it stopped just fine. I've got a Dodge 2500 short bed cummins lined up for a test tow in the next day or two, maybe tonight. If that works fine, I'm going back to the dealer to either get them to replace the IC brake controller or add an after market.
Remember that the truck/trailer stops fine on a smooth road, it is only on a uneven surface that I am having problems.
Posted 2013-06-23 4:44 PM (#152903 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Expert
Posts: 2960 Location: North Carolina
There is a fuse for the Chevy ABS. If it's pulled the ABS is disabled, but the regular brakes still function.
If you suspect an interaction between the ABS and the trailer brake controller. Pulling This fuse will confirm or pass the ABS on bucking trailer issues.
Posted 2013-06-24 10:05 AM (#152913 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
Thanks for the info on the ABS fuse. I will look for it. My truck has diesel exhaust brakes and traction control buttons. Disabling these two features (by using the buttons in the cab) does not resolve the problem. I was pleased that I did not have the problem using another truck. I feel like I can get the issue resolved at some point now. I really like the trailer, the truck I'm not so pleased with these days. LoL
Posted 2013-07-02 1:17 PM (#153077 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
Update: Pulled the trailer with a 2007 Dodge 2500 short bed cummins, no problems at all. Went to the dealer after they were not returning my phone calls, and talked with my service rep and the shop manager. At first the shop manager said there was nothing they could do. After I pointed out that the truck was not providing the intended use, and it was dangerous on uneven roads, he said to bring back the truck and trailer for a test drive. It will be a while before I can do that due to my work schedule. I asked about pulling the ABS fuses and the shop manager said not to do that. Hopefully after the test drive, they will be more helpful. Anyone in the north Dallas area have a 2011/2012 Chevy 2500 Durmax with an integrated controller that is willing to two my trailer for about 15 minutes?
Posted 2013-07-03 5:23 PM (#153123 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Expert
Posts: 2960 Location: North Carolina
Refresh my memory ... Is the trailer bucking only on a rough road?
I just remembered my trailer used to buck under heavy braking. I had the truck rotors turned and the issue went away. MY problem was the rotors had spots etched into them from not being used. The rotors rusted & pitted except where the pads protected the surface. This created spots of varying friction.
Posted 2013-07-04 10:15 AM (#153138 - in reply to #151662) Subject: RE: bucking trailer
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560 Location: Mena, AR
Yes, the bucking only happens on rough roads. It stops true on a smooth surface. When I pull it with a different truck(s) the problem goes away. So, I'm comfortable saying the issue is with the truck.
I did get up to the dealer on Wednesday with both the truck and trailer. The shop manager went with me on a test drive. We found a road to reproduce the problem on. He got in the bed of the truck and had me stop. He says the hitch in the truck bed in moving. He said it scared the *** out of him. The hitch was installed as part of the truck purchase. It is a B&W. The dealership contacted the hitch installer and I'm taking the truck in on Monday morning. When I talked to the hitch guy, he sounded pretty doubtful, but that we would inspect the hitch and tighten the bolts if needed. I also have some doubts on this, but it is all part of the process. I don't understand if the hitch is loose, then why doesn't it not happen all the time? So my trailer is grounded till after the hitch inspection. One thing I haven't done, which I will do after the hitch inspection is unplug the trailer from the truck (electrical) and do my test stop.
bucking trailer
