With a Landcruiser there is NO way I would even consider hauling with the horse in the rear stall.  I have no problem hauling with an suv (see sig), but proper loading is a must or you will end up being another of those people who think suv's are "unsafe" for hauling horses.

You may want to contact both manufacturers in reference to using a WDH on their trailers.  Aluminum trailers are funny about that sometimes.  You will also generally need a 36" tongue, 30" was much more common when I was trailer shopping.  Be prepared for some just plain stupid comments from the trailer manfacturers about WDH though.

Good luck.

No wonder,it's a HART!

The Toyota has a wheelbase of 112"; the Escalade has 116".

I wouldn't pull a 3H BP with either of them

I know people do it. But I wouldn't. that's why I have a 3H GN with an F150 with 145" wheelbase.

I'm trying to think of any photos of horse trailer wrecks I've seen that involved a GN jack-knifing or rolling onto its side. hmmm....  can't think of any.

Enough with the scare tactics.

And you're joking about the GN not jack-knifing or rolling.........right?  Think harder.

I have a Crew Cab Duramax, and an Escalade with a 6.0, I have pulled the same trailer with both vehicles with three horses loaded with "absolutely no problems" no funky hitches just lower the trailer on the ball. The Escalade handles the trailer better than the CC due to the air ride rear. If you think you have to have a Freightliner to pull three horses then go ahead and buy one, before the days of these modern trucks I pulled three horses in a stock type BP with a 6 banger Ford F-150, never wrecked, never got stuck, always made it home just fine.

Blasphemy!!!!  Don't you read the internet forums?  You must have a dually and a GN to be safe.

....... I do read the internet,............for comic relief........

Read my signature.

Show me some photos or news articles. Everytime I read a thread about a horse trailer accident - it's a BP. Sometimes with WDH. 

I'm not saying everyone needs a dually and a GN. I use an F150/5.4 for my 3H GN with 4' shortwall. I sure as sh** don't want to haul in the mountains or snow storms with 3 horses in it, but I'll haul 2 horses in reasonable terrain and reasonable weather.

But hey. If I never drove through cities or mountains or in snow or heavy rain or high speed interstates, bumper-to-bumper, etc. etc.,  I guess I'd be fine with a little short wheelbase SUV and a 3H with a big DR and then ask.. HOW DO I LOAD THIS THING?

ANd.. Gee Chad... weren't YOU the one that said ... NO WAY.. not with a Toyota? Oh. whoops. That was NOT PUT A HORSE in the last stall.. Oh Gee...  and don't drive when it's raining, or when it's dark, or through mountains, etc.

I'll keep you in mind next time I read about an accident other than a BP.....not all of them make the news/web.  There have been several local wrecks here over the years.  No body generally makes that big a deal if a little pickup hauling cows goes over.

Yes, I did say not in a Toyota.  Had nothing to do with it being a Toyota or an suv, or a "short" wheelbase.  The fact it is smaller/less powerful is why it is rated at only 6K, not why it's unsafe to haul the 6K.  Being loaded at the working limits, be it the 6K of my previous Trailblazer or the 15K of the Dmax, requires full attention to EVERY detail.  The 900# tongue on my trailer squatted the TB to the axle bump stops and required time at the scales to get the WDH properly set up.  The same 900# barely squats the Dmax at all, requires less of my attention.  Now load the tractor on the equipment trailer and its pushing 2000# tongue weight........I have to start thinking harder with that load.

When my wife learned to tow she was also very timid in inclement conditions.  To me it makes no difference, if I have to drive in foul conditions and the rig is set up properly I'll be fine.  I can tell you after driving all day in bad weather not a single one of us gets back to the terminal and thinks, boy I sure wish I could just drive this big rig home instead of my smaller car.  A larger/heavier vehicle will take longer to stop in the snow/rain and from high speeds.........so I fail to see why it would be more desirable?  A larger truck may make you 'feel' better, and you may like it 'better', but you'll never prove it is 'better'.

Now if you can afford/want a larger truck where you dont have to think, know, or understand how to properly load a trailer or maybe just dont want to be bother with worrying about every little pound, then so be it.  But using a smaller vehicle does not mean you're automatically unsafe, just because the average jane/john doe is uncomfortable with it.

Edit;

http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=10021

I'm guessing that one was not a BP.

My friend has a 3 horse Sundowner BP with big dressing room.  My horse just loves that trailer.  I have not hauled in a 4-Star so can't comment on them.  I did look at one for sale and thought the Sundowner was a much nicer trailer.  Not sure about the one you're thinking about, but the '95 Sundowner my friend has is a heavy trailer.  

Now, regarding loading, I pull a 2 horse GN with LQ and put all my hay, grain and the portable corral in the first stall and the horse in the back.  It hauls great and I have never, ever had that trailer sway or feel unsafe.  On the other hand, the BP trailers I've had did have some sway at one point or another which is why I now pull a GN.  I haul over big mountain passes and travel quite a bit on the highways across Washington, Oregon and Idaho and always feel safe with the truck and trailer combo I have (Chevy 3/4 4x4 , not a dually).   When I hauled with a BP, the horse was in the first stall.  Hay and stuff was in the tack area and whatever could be moved easily was in the last stall.   I personally would never haul with an SUV though, because of the roads I travel, but I think for non-freeway speeds and around town it might probably be okay.  I was always told that it isn't so much about the hauling as it is about stopping - the few SUV's I've seen hauling a 3H BP seemed to be dwarfed by the trailer - a serious case of the tail wagging the dog.   But, that's just my opinion.  I am a GN lover now though, so am a bit prejudiced :)

http://www.kmbc.com/video/18299077/index.html

chadsalt... I couldn't get yours to play, here's another....

http://www.kansascity.com/679/story/941048.html

http://videos.kansascity.com/vmix_hosted_apps/p/media?id=2543667&f=mokas

 That's two lucky people.....

Quiz time... What make trailer is that?  Exiss?

Yeah, I went through two or three before the one I posted would play for me.

Cant be an Exiss.......dont they burst into flames?  I think I read that on the web somewhere.

That's funny, When I haul 1 horse on a long trip, I have loaded the horse in stall #2 for 20 years and have never had a problem loading the hay, grain, etc in stall #1 with my GN. I trailer over 6000 miles a year, across every kind of terrain the Northwest has to offer including some biga$$ mountain passes. Before I got a GN I hauled the same way in the BP. Honestly, whether the horse was in stall #1 or stall #2, the BP was not as stable as the GN.  

I do see how it would make a bigger difference in a 3horse trailer.  When my friend hauls in her 3 horse, we put her big horse in front and my smaller guy in #2.  #3 goes empty.

I didn't read all the posts on this thread, but most of them.  Here's a "rule of thumb" that I use for BP trailer loading.  Park the vehicle on level ground and measure hitch height before loading.  Load the trailer and measure hitch height.  If you have lost more than  25% of the measurement, you are probably front heavy?  If you have lost less than 10% of hitch height, you are probably tail heavy.  If the truck and trailer look like a "sway back rented mule" then you are front heavy.  If you are driving and the trailer is wagging along behind you, you are tail heavy. 

LOADING A TRAILER IS A BALANCING ACT!!!!  Even if it's an 80K GVW 18-wheeler!  Watched a big rig trailer fold up in the middle like a napkin on a coffee table with paper towels up front, powdered soap in the middle and coffee filters in the back next to the doors.  Guess what?  The insurance company told them to have a nice day.  The trailer manufacturer laughed at the trucking company when they mentioned warranty on the trailer and told them to fire the loading dock supervisor.

Too much tongue weight and you lose steering and front brakes.  You also run the rish of exceeding the weight limits of the hitch and the insurance won't pay you a dime after an accident if they figure out you are too stupid to load the vehicle properly.

Too little tongue weight and the trailer will eventually take control of the truck and you will find the trailer taking you new and interesting places that you never thought you wanted to go!  Because "the tail is wagging the dog" without enough tongue weight on a BP trailer.

It's a balancing act no matter which way you turn the cube.

Happy trails,

deranger

Well that's an interesting "rule of thumb", but I fail to understand this "fixation" on the squat of the tow vehicle.  Proper trailer loading has NOTHING to due with vehicle squat.  The trailer is its own vehicle, with its own proper loading.  This will produce a proper tongue weight, makes no difference what it does to the tow vehicle.....it is still the proper weight.  In this country most trailers rely on the tow vehicle for support, Brenderup comes to mind for those that dont. 

I'll use my truck/trailers as they are prime examples;  900# tongue weight squats the Dmax just a little, it squated the Trailblazer to the bumpstops.  900# is 15% tongue weight, the heavy side of normal for a BP.  According to your logic I need to lighten the tongue weight to haul with the Trailblazer?  NO.  What I need, and used with great results, is a WDH. 

My deckover trailer loaded with the tractor is pushing 2000# tongue weight.  The Dmax squats pretty good, that weight would probably lift the front of the Trailblazer off the ground..........neither of these conditions have ANYTHING to do with the properly loaded trailer, they are vehicle deficiencies.  If I could move the tractor back enough to not squat the Trailblazer, it would be around 3% tongue weight, on the Dmax about 6%.  Care to imagine how that would haul?

Where is Reg when you need him?  He could explain the math better than I can, so I wont try.

All that being said; if you only drive one truck and know about how it squats with a tongue weight and use squat to 'guesstimate' a proper tongue weight for a known weight of trailer, I guess thats a resonable "rule of thumb".  I prefer a Sheline scale when in doubt.

This statement; "insurance won't pay you a dime after an accident if they figure out you are too stupid to load the vehicle properly." is also another internet myth. Being overloaded is no different that driving drunk, or running a stop sign. They will still pay, probably wont renew the contract though.

Edit;

What does breaking a trailer have to do with "balance"?  Sounds like an overload issue to me.

Please try to disagree with courtesy instead of barbed sarcasm.  Sarcasm usually looks good only to the person using it. 

While I have no doubt that I am blunt and to the point, there was no sarcasm intended in my last post.

You're right. . . . . it was just "barbed".

After research early this year on my own trailer problems, I did read something about "balancing act" either in my trailer books or running gear paper work.  But here is some info from the largest axle manufacture straight from the wesite.  DEXTER AXLES.

Tip #11:  It is very important to pull your trailer so that it is running level. If the hitch is too high or too low, the trailer axle(s) may be unevenly loaded and can result in premature tire or axle failure.

Tip #13:  When loading your trailer, make sure enough weight is being carried on the hitch to ensure proper weight distribution and good handling.

Tip #21:  The location of the load on a trailer will affect the ride characteristics. Too little load on the hitch can cause the trailer to wander or sway. Too much hitch load can overload your towing vehicles? suspension.

So in a round about way you are trying to balance the tow vehicle and trailer loaded!

My, my..........did someone get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Dear chadsalt,

F.Y.I., an insurance company is not required by law to pay up when the insured is grossly negligent in the operation of a motor vehicle involved in an accident that is the fault of the insured. Example: "driving too fast for existing conditions" was written on the ticket from losing control and hydroplaning into a ditch. No other vehicles involved and the insurance company didn't pay.  No, I wasn't driving, I was the body shop manager that took the vehicle in for repairs.  They don't have to pay and then fail to renew.  They can drop you on the spot and make you buy state sponsored insurance.

In my old age I've come to understand that a response like yours is usually generated from an overdose of caffeine and too much red meat.  You might want to back off on the coffee?  Just a thought...............

Happy trails,

deranger