I e-mailed a guy at the Tx DOT and he said it was the ACTUAL weight of the vehicle/trailer that counted, not what it was rated for.  I posted the e-mail on here a couple of years ago.  I may still have it.  

I emailed the Trouper and asked him to look over this thread if he has the time and try to explain to us what the law really is.

keeponhaulin

Have you talked to an attorney in Iowa about contesting the tickets using the weight scale print-out?   Please update on the ticket proceedings.  Thanks.

...I too would be very interested in the ticket proceedings.  Heck, I'd even chip in to a "keeponhaulin' legal defense fund" to see where this ends up.  In my opinion there are a few other considerations:

There are two things in play, the requirements of the vehicle, and those of the driver.  As to the vehicle, based on keeponhaulin's description it clearly does not fall under the classification of a commercial vehicle, thus requiring a DOT# and all the associated requirments.  Reference the FMCSA regulations part 390.3(f) and associated guidance question and answer (21).

What is less clear is the requirement of the driver to have some form of class A CDL.  For this situation the federal requirements (which are the minumum to be used by the states) requires any combination of GVRWs over 26001, provided the trailer is over 10001 to have a class A CDL, unless it is an RV, used soley for that purpose.  Reference the FMCSA part 383.3 and associated guidance.  The kicker is that the states may have more stringent requirements.  I'm not sure what Iowa has, but Texas requires a class A CDL, or class A non-cdl for all vehicles of this weight range.  If licensed properly in Texas, this should apply to Iowa.

A couple other comments:

• Removing the VIN plate from the trailer is probably a red flag for any officer.  The FMCSA regulations part 383 guidance actually addresses this, and basically says you're assumed guilty until proven innocent...
• As far as actual vehicle weights and GVWR(s) on the vehicles, the regulations always refer to the GVWR, instead of the actual weight, unless the actual weight is greater.  Seems crazy, but that's the way they're written.
• When talking to government "officials" (I use that term loosely) expect to get a different answer from each one.

One final question for keeponhaulin'.  I don't understand the GVWR(s) of 10,000 lb. for your F-350 and 20,000 lb. for your trailer.  Where did the officer get these?  The truck seems on the light side for a F-350 dually, and the trailer on the heavy.  The scale readings put the truck at 12100 (4540 stear, 7560 drive), which is way over this GVWR.  This could cause DPS/DOT and insurance problems if it is correct.  My guess is that it is not. 

The reason I ask is that after purchasing our F-350 and 40' (OAL) living quarters trailer 1 and 1/2 years ago I've been dealing with the same issues.  The dealers actually incorrectly registered both the truck and trailer weights such that the truck was way under (and subject to a ticket) and the trailer was way over.  The trailer with two 8K axles has a GVWR of 16,000 lb., however they registered it for 29,000 lbs. It took about a year, and hours on the phone to fix these.

Sorry to ramble on...

Regards,

Dave

I'm gonna try to answer everybodies questions.  Have not yet talked to an attorney in Iowa.  Have spoken with several in Texas, and gotten a bunch of different answers, mostly that I have violated at least one of the regulations which I received. Alot of trailers I have looked at, not just horse trailers, do not have a manufactures sticker that has the GVWR on them, some have axel ratings or actual weights.  Don't know why the officer said my F-350 dually had a GVWR of 10,000lbs. when I looked the sticker said 13,000lbs.  I am aware that all the weights in the regulations are either GVWR or GCVR, I just found it interesting that the actual weight of my combined truck and trailer was way less than the 26,000lb limitation and how much more weight the manufacturer states these two vehicles can carry.  I can't imagine what else I could put in my truck or trailer to get there, thought the 6 pairs of shoes were ridiculous.  I have found that the states regulations can be more or less particular than the FMCSA regulations.  I really need one source to tell what they want from me.  I do travel across state and counrty borders and need to be able to do so without being legal in some and not others. Only some states require DOT numbers, Texas and New Mexico do not so hopefully I can get through the next show without a DOT number citation.  This is so frustrating because I keep getting different answers from the "officials" who are there to inform the rest of us and they don't know themselves.  I hope I answered some of your questions. 

 Missed one, gotta look into that GVWR being wrong on the trailer.  Just searched a similar trailer that is same size, didn't look at the extras, and it was rated 2,000lbs less than mine, very interesting.

My trailer is a 3 horse with 10' LQ. The axles are 7k each and the tag says 16,646 for GVWR. If the trailer was rated closer to the 14k I wouldn't be over 26k.

I sent DHMCO (wonderful people BTW, excellent buying experience) an email about it this AM.  They are inquring to Bison about this and will let me know.

I also found that nobody in law enforcement can't agree how to interpret the laws and regulations. I think I'll print and keep in my truck the info applicable to me and even if it doesn't save me a ticket, the officer will know I've attempted to do right.

Ok, I think I have found what type of license I would need here in NM to be legal.  My trailer has a GVWR of 14,000lbs so I would need a non commercial class E acording to this.    I think.

http://wwwdgr.unm.edu/gradlicense/licenseCATEGORIES.htm

Here in TN horses are still considered "livestock" so our trailer IS farm equipment.

I saw somewhere that Iowa has classified horses as something other than livestock but do not know what that is or why.

The following is from Tennessee Code Annotated section 55-50-102

Well if you have an accident...the rules change...they want the manufacturer designated weights not the loaded weights from the bill of lading or the scaled weight of the vehicle...

This is from a state accident explanation booklet...Your State may be different

Gross Vehicle Rating: Record the applicable category for the single vehicle’s

gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or combination vehicle’s gross combination

weight rating (GCWR). This information is found on the certification label located

on the driver's door or door frame, cab behind the seat or driver-side visor. GVWR

and GCWR are manufacturer designated weights, not the loaded weights from the

bill of lading or the scaled weight of the vehicle. GCWR is the sum of all GVWR's

for each unit in a combination-unit motor vehicle and should be used when

recording the weight of qualifying combination vehicles. The use of GCWR to

determine selection becomes especially important when vehicles that would NOT

qualify by GVWR alone are involved in crashes when pulling a trailer. The label

for trailers should be affixed to a location on the forward half of the left side

Use gross combination weight ratings (GCWR) for truck combinations.

But the reason the ICC was invented was to stop one state from enforcing unreasonable rules on another states vehicles, i.e. if horses are livestock in TX, then when being transported thru Iowa by a TX truck and trailer its still livestock...same with the universal CDL...it is issued by a state, but is ultimately controlled by the Feds...i.e. Iowa can make it tougher for their issued license, but they can not enforce their rules over Texas CDLs passing thru Iowa...

And

Is Iowa encouraging people to pull with inadequate trucks in order to stay under the 26,001?

Maybe I should put a gooseneck hitch on my Miata....just kidding.  Nah, just going to avoid Iowa.

Hey Memory....what about those pop-up rv's......they don't have bathrooms.  Does that make them non-rv's?

BROTHER!

 You can see how getting each state to change its' regs for recreational horse hauling is going to be one more pain in the rear,not to mention unlikely.

I think the FED regs need the exceptions,since they are the standard that most states go by anyway.

My trailer IS an rv which also can transport horses;  there is a sticker on the outside that says it is certified by TA Arnold rv stuff etc.  The lq part is bigger than the horse part. 

I don't believe any of the people driving those big rv bus creatures has anything more than a regular (in TN that would be a class D) driving license.

AND when I tagged the dually, nobody said anything about it needing any kind of "special" tag because it is big. 

What is next, every one ton truck has to be driven by someone holding a cdl?  This is a load of crap. 

So, how about it people who live in Iowa, do all of you who have duallys also have cdls?

AND I am still interested in what Iowa wants concerning horses....

dblhocker    Thanks for the message.  I have been looking up (or trying to) the Iowas statutes.  I found the following:

ok I just found the following in the Iowa stuff (in the process of still trying to find the driver license stuff)

Private passenger vehicles are covered under the Tennessee Code as follows:

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That is how it is in Kansas.  My 2003 Titan 16' GN is registered as an RV.  It has a camp potty, bag shower & Crown Royal. 

For those saying "I'll tell them I'm going to a trail ride" I wonder if you need to be careful because if you have a health certificate, which you should when going out of state, and if the Iowa officer ask to see that document, it will show something different: roping, show.

I've driven I-29 for several years going up to South Dakota.  It is the most neglected and unattended stretch of interstate I've ever seen with original to Lewis & Clark era road surface and the midwest's tallest weeds. 

This is how the CDL was explained to me by an Illinois State Trooper.  It doesn't matter what axles you have or what the weight of the trailer on a scale, the CLD requirement of 26,001 is the combination GVWR of the towing veichle and the GVWR of the trailer.  I have a trailer with two 8,000 axles but it has a GVWR tag from the manufacture of 19,600, their thinking that 20% of the trailer weight will put on the towing veichle. The F-350 has a GVWR of 11,800, which put the GVWR of 31,400.

So if the trailer manufactures add 20% to the axles capacity, two 7,000 axles have a combined capacity of 14,000, adding on the 20% of the weight that the truck carries, that makes a GVWR of 16,800, leaving only 9,200 left for the GVWR of the truck, a 2007 Ford F-350 Crew Cab Dually has a GVWR of 13,000. So if you have a dually towing a trailer with two 7,000 axles you willl need a CDL. It seems that the trailer manufactures and truck manufactures are increasing the GVWR to make it seem that we are getting more for your money, but they are creating veichles that will require a CDL.