Posted 2008-10-23 9:17 AM (#93467 - in reply to #93452) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 2957 Location: North Carolina
Originally written by FrancaV on 2008-10-23 12:46 AM
Obama has already proven to be a liar. He said he would accept federal funding for the general election if his opponent would. McCain did, Obama didn't.
Obama's word is zilch...
They are plenty of lies to go around. If you deem Obama to be a liar you must do the same for McCain. And Ms. Palin. In fact, my informal tally shows more lies on the McCain campaign side. Which of the vast numbers of lies on either side are more serious I leave to each person to decide on his own.
FrancaV It seems many times I post factual instances the retort is..."Yeah.. Everybody does it" That is hardly considered rebutal. More like a childish "Ya Momma ..."
Please post specific example of a McCain lie. And a Palin lie. My Obama commitment reneg example is well documented.
Posted 2008-10-23 10:01 AM (#93471 - in reply to #93467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
If you deem Obama to be a liar Please post specific example of a McCain lie. .
That's an easy one. Check out any of his political advertisements of which "he approves". Then review the truthfulness of the "facts" of that add when they are reviewed by the national news agencies. The differences are major. Obama's a liar, no, McCain's a liar, no he's............ The dog is biting his tail
Posted 2008-10-23 1:54 PM (#93485 - in reply to #93467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Regular
Posts: 92
Originally written by hosspuller on 2008-10-23 7:17 AM
FrancaV It seems many times I post factual instances the retort is..."Yeah.. Everybody does it" That is hardly considered rebutal. More like a childish "Ya Momma ..."
I completely disagree. You can't have it both ways. If you call one person a liar based on certain criteria, you must call other people liars who meet the same criteria.
Please post specific example of a McCain lie. And a Palin lie. My Obama commitment reneg example is well documented.
This covers only through Sept. 25th. There have been plenty more since, on both sides. This is what politics has become, and the closer to the election, the worse it gets. Disheartening, to say the least.
Posted 2008-10-23 2:44 PM (#93487 - in reply to #92467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Have any of you voted yet? I voted last Friday.... I think I'll go vote again tomorrow!!! LOL! The folks working the polls never asked for any I.D. They asked my name and my birth date and handed me the appropriate ballots.
Posted 2008-10-23 3:22 PM (#93491 - in reply to #93487) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Regular
Posts: 92
Originally written by retento on 2008-10-23 12:44 PM
Have any of you voted yet? I voted last Friday.... I think I'll go vote again tomorrow!!! LOL! The folks working the polls never asked for any I.D. They asked my name and my birth date and handed me the appropriate ballots.
You didn't have to sign some sort of log book and write down your address? These things seem to be handled differently in every state. Perhaps even in every county within every state. Not much hope of controlling voter intimidation and fraud that way. To quote the title of the thread ... whatta mess!
In our little corner of the world we never seem to experience long lines or any other sort of drama. I walk right up to a table, show my driver's license to a poll worker, sign the log book next to my name and print my address, pick up my ballots and head to a booth. Mark my ballots with pen provided, and hand them over to the poll worker who tears off the stubs and presents them to me along with my "I voted" sticker. I watch my ballots drop into the box and away I go.
Posted 2008-10-23 7:51 PM (#93505 - in reply to #92467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 522 Location: Tucumcari NM
Lying is an integeral part of politics. It is genetically impossible for a politician to tell the truth. I am so disgusted with it all that I could just spit, but that would be as useful as crying, which I have also considered!
Posted 2008-10-23 9:11 PM (#93513 - in reply to #92467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544 Location: Claxton, Ga.
Talking politics is like arguing with your wife. You will never win. It's just a loosing battle. Someone always thinks they won the argument but in reality, nobody wins. This has been the worst election in years.
Posted 2008-10-24 9:38 AM (#93532 - in reply to #92467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Lately I've been having this really bad dream. Palin is standing in the woods, resplendent in one of her zillion dollar outfits, holding a machine gun aimed at a moose, that looks like a scared "Bull Winkle" character caught is a car's headlights. She is giving another speech to reporters, complete with her "gees" and "gollyies", and ends up with a nod, wink and "bieyeee".
She must have the same speech writers John has used throughout his campaign, as her talks include the relevation that she is the most qualified person to be president. Also omnipresent are the exaggerations, half truths and outright falsehoods, that have plagued the advertising of his candidacy.
When I think of Sarah's big beautiful eyes, looking directly at me over the sights of a rifle barrel, I shudder. This is not the image I had considered for the leader of the free world.
Posted 2008-10-24 11:59 AM (#93543 - in reply to #93532) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 2957 Location: North Carolina
Originally written by gard on 2008-10-24 4:22 AM
Lately I've been having this really bad dream. Palin is standing in the woods, resplendent in one of her zillion dollar outfits, holding a machine gun aimed at a moose, that looks like a scared "Bull Winkle" character caught is a car's headlights. She is giving another speech to reporters, complete with her "gees" and "gollyies", and ends up with a nod, wink and "bieyeee".
She must have the same speech writers John has used throughout his campaign, as her talks include the relevation that she is the most qualified person to be president. Also omnipresent are the exaggerations, half truths and outright falsehoods, that have plagued the advertising of his candidacy.
When I think of Sarah's big beautiful eyes, looking directly at me over the sights of a rifle barrel, I shudder. This is not the image I had considered for the leader of the free world.
Gard
Gard ... As there is no reasoning with you, I'll leave you to your dreams... When the oceans stop their rise, and the rainbows glisten, and the Earth heals while Obama speaks on... and on ... and on ...
Meanwhile, great frauds grow from Acorn... Nourished by taxpayer sweat and tears.
Posted 2008-10-24 12:11 PM (#93547 - in reply to #93543) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Gard ... As there is no reasoning with you, I'll leave you to your dreams... When the oceans stop their rise, and the rainbows glisten, and the Earth heals while Obama speaks on... and on ... and on ...
Meanwhile, great frauds grow from Acorn... Nourished by taxpayer sweat and tears.
As I've said to a previous poster, and apparently it bears repeating to our forum's self appointed moral authority:
Thank you for your posting of unbiased and truthful discussions. It is a welcome respite from the normal histrionics, rhetoric and misinformation that normally prevails.
Thank you for leaving me with my dreams. With our current recession only forecast to worsen, they may be all I have left.
Posted 2008-10-24 12:14 PM (#93548 - in reply to #93532) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Veteran
Posts: 296 Location: Tennessee
Originally written by gard on 2008-10-24 9:38 AM
Lately I've been having this really bad dream. Palin is standing in the woods, resplendent in one of her zillion dollar outfits, holding a machine gun aimed at a moose, that looks like a scared "Bull Winkle" character caught is a car's headlights . . . . When I think of Sarah's big beautiful eyes, looking directly at me over the sights of a rifle barrel, I shudder. This is not the image I had considered for the leader of the free world.
I gotta admit, this is about as rational as most of the other reasons people cite for voting for Obama. ;-)
Posted 2008-10-24 12:23 PM (#93550 - in reply to #92467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
Lately I've been having a dream also............it's is of a very well spoken guy that has pulled the wool over the eyes of America. Seems that this guy while very sharp dressed and rehearsed in his speaches has a long list of friends that lets just say are somewhat shady. One was his preacher of 20 years, that just seems to want to see very bad things happen to all of America, and spews out some very foul words for a preacher. Another of his fiends spent his days as a young adult trying to blow up the Capitol and Pentagon killing a few police officers along the way. One more of his friends has gotten caught up in a "slum lord" court case, after buying this well spoken man a house in downtown Chicago. This well spoken sharp dressed young man also seems to have an issue with his citizenship that could be in front of the Supreme Court next week. By the way this well spoken young mans wife says that America is "just a down right mean country". The dream gets a little worse towards the end, when the well spoken young man starts talking about repealing a tax cut that has had the country somewhat propped up for the last 6 years. He thinks it is smart to tax small businesses in the face of a recession. But the worst part about this dream is that a vast supporting cast that thinks anyone who doesn't agree with him is either a racist, a redneck, or is just clinging to thier guns and religion because they don't know any better. Someone please tell me when the dream ends,............. oh, I get it, all of Americas dreams will end if we elect this quanzisolicialist left wing wacko.
Posted 2008-10-25 10:39 AM (#93610 - in reply to #92467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
McCain was asked the question; "Are we better off than we were 8 years ago?
His response was, and I quote verbatim:
" I think we are better off overall if you look at the entire eight year period, when you look at the millions of jobs that have been created, the improvements in the economy, etc."
Posted 2008-10-25 11:18 AM (#93613 - in reply to #93610) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
Originally written by gard on 2008-10-25 10:39 AM
McCain was asked the question; "Are we better off than we were 8 years ago?
His response was, and I quote verbatim:
" I think we are better off overall if you look at the entire eight year period, when you look at the millions of jobs that have been created, the improvements in the economy, etc."
Apparently he hasn't watched the news.
I am much better off today than I was 8 years ago,....................
Posted 2008-10-25 11:28 AM (#93614 - in reply to #93610) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Originally written by gard on 2008-10-25 10:39 AM
Apparently he hasn't watched the news.
That is the biggest problem right there. IF you talk gloom and doom enough, people start to believe it. The news has been telling us for three years how bad it is. Now people are starting to believe it. So they panic. They withdraw cash from banks and sell stocks. That creates panic. And panic is the last thing that we need to do.
Am I better off than I was eight years ago? Yes. Should I work my butt off to support those that aren't and don't want to help themselves? No. I have my own children that I support. Should I help someone that wants to keep up with the Jones and over extended themselves? No. They created their own bed. It is time for them to lay in it now. And those that are in a panic need to stop and take a few breaths before they react any more.
Posted 2008-10-25 4:23 PM (#93624 - in reply to #92467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
You two are fortunate indeed to be better off now. Around my part of the country it isn't the talk of doom that is the problem, it is the actuality of the problems that are now being manifested.
The contractor who spent the last month on my projects, has gone to a new job that will only take a week to finish. Beyond that he has no new jobs waiting. My wife's best friend is a realtor. Normally she handles four to five closings a month, this month she closed on one and presently has no possibilities next month.
Not too far away is a GM assembly plant that is now scheduled to close, a loss of almost two thousand jobs. By the holidays, additional layoffs announced by many major firms will number in the hundreds of thousands.
Our local food banks are overwhelmed with the amount of aid that is being requested. The Red Cross and Salvation Army are financially tapped out. All of them are hurting by the drastic down turn in donations. Many of the children in our schools have little or no medical care, because their parents can't afford the insurance.
When construction is being performed on your house, strangers will stop to see if you need any more workers. The local stores are bracing for a poor winter sales period, in which typically 1/3 of their profits are generated. Our local colleges are low on students, caused by the tightening of credit. This summer's graduating class has a high number of non working graduates with fresh diplomas. There are few new jobs to be had.
These events are not theories that I've read about, they are real goings on that are happening here and now. You and I are fortunate to have dodged the bullet, but many have not.
To pretend that all is well because you have a job is not realistic. Yes HW, I do watch the news. You should try it. You will find it is much more comfortable than constantly pulling your head out of the sand.
Posted 2008-10-25 5:22 PM (#93625 - in reply to #93624) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
Originally written by gard on 2008-10-25 4:23 PM
Yes HW, I do watch the news. You should try it. You will find it is much more comfortable than constantly pulling your head out of the sand.
Gard
Let me tell you something acewipe, if your not better off today that you were 8 years ago it's your fault not W's. You talk about all this doom and gloom makes me want to puke. Get up off your ace and get to work, we live in the greatest nation in the world. I don't have any time for a pitty party. I didn't get what I have by complaining, I've been knocked back a time or two and I just got up and dug harder. If you are looking for a handout then you are part of the problem, not the solution, and if you think that either one of these boneheads running for president are going to make your life easier, then you really have some issues. I'm going to go make a Patron margarita, that's right $50 a bottle tequila, times are rough around this house. You keep crying to the government thinking they will help you out, see how that works for you.
Posted 2008-10-25 6:17 PM (#93626 - in reply to #92467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Expert
Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
Just one more item, we had a fire on our road yesterday and a young family's home burnt to the ground. We were all gathered around as nieghbors do talking about it last night and I introduced myself to this young man and told him if he needed anything to stop by and I would do what I can. This morning I had a knock on the door, seems this young man who's house burnt down just yesterday was out at 7 am this morning looking to do some extra work, you can bet I found something for him to do, and when I paid him this afternoon, he ended up making about $30 an hour today, cleaning out a fencerow. I think everyone likes to help people that are trying to help themselves. So you just keep on argueing about this stuff if you want, I'm done.
Posted 2008-10-25 11:02 PM (#93640 - in reply to #92467) Subject: RE: Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
Regular
Posts: 92
Well now ... what was a reasonably civil discussion has taken a nasty turn.
I, for one, am extremely tired of all of the smug, self-righteous people out there who think that just because they have jobs and are doing OK that everyone else should be doing OK also. And that if people are not doing just fine that means they're all just lazy, good-for-nothing slobs. Time for a reality check, folks, and also for a healthy dose of compassion because nothing could be further from the truth. If you think everything is just fine and dandy economically, you are the ones in dreamland. Apologies to those who tried to keep this discussion relatively sane but I have no tolerance left for the nastiness in this thread.
Whatta Mess ! and how did we get in this basket?
