That's what the tag says on the trailer, so that's my story and I'm sticking with it ;-)

I know what my trailer weighs empty as I had to weigh it when I licensed it since I bought it out of state.  I believe my trailer mnfct lists the GVWR as the weight on the axles not the total trailer weight, as the axles and tires are rated way higher than 12,000 lbs.

Yes,they are.Just spoke with an officer from my state's DOT dept.and she said that they all follow the same Federal rules,and,it is true that if you are hauling to/from a show,breeder,ect.it can be seen as a commercial enterprise,and yes,you CAN be fined.So these guys harda-- as they may seem,were really operating within the boundries of the laws,and deciding for some reason to get strict with everybody hauling horses or whatever.

Instead of concentrating on real lawbreakers,I might add.

Well,yes,we DO need to get busy and get this BS stopped.The horse industry as a whole has taken a downturn as it is,so,this won't help if it continues.We need to stand up and holler!!!

This is for farmers...The International Registration Plan (IRP) is a registration reciprocity agreement among jurisdictions of the United States and Canada. The agreement provides for payment of license fees on the basis of fleet miles operated in various jurisdictions.

Well, I have not heard back from as many horse organizations as I had hoped.  American Mule and Donkey will be running my story in BRAYER.  They said they had run an article last year about this. Hopefully I will have more info. tomorrow.  It's a start. 

This is making the "converted" RV that was on here awhile back that everyone was badmouthing look better and better.  Put some air vents on the sides/roof with fans and a full rear door and no one would know there were horses inside. 

Either that or a slide in truck camper and a small stock trailer.

For our horse trailer, we licensed the vehicle as an RV.  So if I get pulled over by the friendly police department or state troopers,  I am going/coming to/from a trail ride in my RV.  I would like to see how many sitations I get then.......

As stated in an earlier post, the FMCSA regulations do provide for an exemption if the vehicle is used for "The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise."

The fact that one may win a few dollars of prize money or increase the value of their horse is the point of contention on whether this is considered commercial.  However, the guidance section associated with this exemption specifically addresses the act of hauling horses to a show where prize money may be one.  Here's the guidance directly from the FMCSA....

"Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject."

This seems pretty clear regarding the applicability of the FMCSA regulations to the vehicle(s). 

If the combination of vehicle weights (GVWR's) exceeds 26001 lbs., the driver still likely needs a Class A CDL.

The following link has a good summary of this: http://www.motorists.org/other/home/dot-numbering-requirements/

Hope this helps.  I've been struggling with this issue for the last year and a half.

Dave

Per the FMCSA web site and motorists.org, you need to comply with FMCSA regs if you take the horses off on your taxes. So, if you are NOT a business and are hauling a large trailer, make sure you have the following in your truck to show the honorable DOT officer:

1. Copy of the FMSCA regulations with the dog-eared page explaining the hobbyist exception

2. Your tax return that shows you claimed prize money as ordinary income and DID NOT take any horse expenses off on your taxes.

3. Make sure you are not exceeding any of your axle, tire, or registration ratings.

If you still receive an out of state ticket for violating FMSCA violations, by all means, fight it!

You hire a local attorney to represent you in court...you are not required to be present...only a legal representative for you needs to be present...a lot cheaper in the long run than what your insurance company will do to you when all those points hit your license...

When I go watch events like The Kentucky Three Day Event, more commonly known as 'The Rolex' I've noticed on some of the bigger rigs that are often parked at the campground at the Horse Park that they have the letters 'Not For Hire' on them instead of a DOT number. I'm wondering if this declaration is all that is needed to let the police know that you are not a commercial hauler? Remember, even that the Rolex level, many of those people riding are still amatuers as they do not train for anyone else or buy or sell horses for that matter.

I've also seen race car rigs on the highway, with the same declaration on the truck. I'm wondering if we are just missing the fact that we need to tag our trucks with 'Not For Hire' to let the police know you are a hobbyist?

Any thoughts, or is this a grey area?

Nope, only seen NOT FOR HIRE, no DOT # on those trucks. Likely as they are deemed personal use, not commercial use. The problem now, is the political people that are putting a spin on the DOT laws for monetary gain/job security and heck more red tape and vehicles to inspect could create a few more jobs for buddies. While at the same time keeping police busy bothering the wrong people.

Now if they want to require a class A non-CDL to make sure the people hauling these outfits are capable of doing so, great.  Frankly, watching some people haul monster camper trailers and drive gigantic RV's I'd be more than quite all right with that. So absolutely no problem there, but they shouldn't have to get a CDL, don't bog us down in the buracracy that was set up to keep businesses on the up and up. Mostly to keep them from having employed truckers driving too many hours before getting rest.

If I had a living quarters trailer I would seriously look into getting it registered as a recreational trailer.

Modified: did a little reading and it seems you are correct about the 'Not For Hire' not being used instead of DOT numbers, but it seems people may be using it without DOT numbers as well. It's all really confusing isn't it?

I posed the following question both to the SC DMV & DOT. Here's what I got.

I am thinking of purchasing a horse trailer with Living Quarters (RV style). The trailer would be used to haul my family horses on camping trips (purely recreational). The trailer has a GVWR of nearly 17,000 pounds. The truck I haul with has a GVWR of 10,500. This puts me over the 26,000 pound requirement for CDL although I am not using the rig for commercial purposes. Would I be required to have a CDL to drive this?

The DOT: As long as this combination of vehicles are strictly recreational

vehicles and not being used in a business a CDL is not required.

 Sgt. J.T. Hayes

State Transport Police / District Five

 The DMV: I contacted my CDL help desk in regards to your question. I was advised 

that you will have to get a CDL, and you will have to get a DOT medical card as well.       

Tracking Number: 1186044

Rodney

This is interesting.  As I have check in my state of KS - I was told, that I am not required to have a CDL - as long as I am hauling horses only with my dually pickup and 3H slant LVG qtr trailer.  I am not required to have a CDL. This is per the DOT.

Okay, I think I have found a loophole.  Here goes, all this information I pulled directly off the FMCSA website, according to 390.3 General applicability section, part (f)" Exemptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules of this subchapter do not apply to-  (f)(2)  The occassional transportation of personal property by individulas not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;" .This would lead me to believe that "occasional" hauling would not make you a commercial motor vehicle.  Who's to say how "occasionally" you haul?   I'm not sure, but that might get you out of the DOT# part as well since you are not a CMV.  Next thing I found is also from the FMCSA 383.5 Definitions under the General section.  The definition of a "Commercial Motor Vehicle(CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle- (a)Has a GROSS COMBINATION WEIGHT RATING(GCWR) of 26,001lbs or more inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING(GVWR) of more than 10,000lbs; or".   Thought you already knew that?  There is a difference between a GCWR and GVWR. Here are the defintions for those also under the 383.5 section "GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle."  Should be on a sticker on the inside of your trucks door. It can also be found on a sticker on the goose part of some horse trailers.  Here other defintion  "GROSS COMBINATION WEIGHT RATING (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination(articulated) vehicle. IN THE ABSENCE OF A VALUE SPECIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER, GCWR will be determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon."

So, it seems to me that if you remove that sticker from you horse trailer, then they don't know the actual GCWR.  Here is how it would apply to my "rig".  When I got the tickets the officer said my truck had a GVWR of 10,000lbs(sticker on the door) and the trailer had a GVWR of 20,000lbs (sticker on the goose of the trailer) for a total of 30000.  Way over the 26,001+ limit.  Like I stated before, I weighed my "rig"(both truck and trailer) at a CAT scale, loaded down with luggage, 2 horses, full tank of diesel etc. and it came out to 22,780lbs.  Well under the weight limit. I'm sure even with one more horse in the trailer it would not exceed the limit. So, I think I will be pulling that GVWR sticker off the trailer, they can take me to the weigh station to get a GCWR.  If the GCWR is under 26,000lbs I should not need a CDL. Could be a temporary fix to CDL/CMV regulation BS. You guys tell me what you think, if that wasn't too confusing.