I have been feeding my 27 +++ year old gelding who has cushings and insulin resistance the Buckeye senior texturized feed, along with straight grass hay and limited pasture with a grazing muzzle.  He looks good. He could stand a few more lbs. before winter, but he's not obese causing stress on his old repeatedly foundered feet.

Recently, the price of the feed has gone up to 23 bucks per bag, and the feed store is only open 3 days a week.  I'm looking to switch brands, but I'm not sure there's an equal feed to switch to.  I have a tractor supply and a purina dealer nearby.  Purina's Equine Sr. has too much molassas, and I'm unsure of the quality of the tractor supply feeds (platform & dumor).  I hate to switch Lucky's feed since he's doing so well on it, but 23 bucks plus the 40 mile drive is just too high for a pasture ornament horse.  Does anyone use Dumor or Platform? 

I have tried Purina's Mare & Maintanance, which is a ration balancer low in carbs with no molassas, and found that my horses looked only so-so on it.  I used buckeye's grow & win, which is about the same thing and my horses look great.  I know you get what you pay for, but there has to be a cut-off point somewhere. My other horses (haflinger/belgian 5year old EASY keeper, and 14 yo QH avg. keeper) are not as big of a concern because they have few dietary restrictions.  I suppose they'd be ok on a run-of-the-mill feed.

So, can anyone speak to the quality of dumor vs. platform vs. purina for a low-starch/carb diet appropriate for a senior horse? 

I was considering the Born to Win from purina which is a 30 percent protein balancer, along with beet pulp without molassas.  I'd have to have the beet pulp special ordered to be without molassas, but I think they can do it.  Would the 30% protein be too high?  They make a 12%, but I'm not sure that's enough protein since his hay does not have alfalfa. Advice?  Opinions?

Amanda

I sell feed for a living and would highly recommend Triple Crown Senior. (I do not work for a manufacturer, but for an independant store and mill, but have worked for 2 of the top ten manufacturers in animal nutrition.) It is a much better quality than Purina Senior and higher in fat (10%). Triple Crown is fixed formulation, meaning you get the same ingredients in every bag. Purina uses least cost variable formulation, meaning they use the ingredients that cost the least at the time of production. Dumore and Platform are also manufactured by Purina. All of these product lines were involved in the recent Purina recall for mycotoxin issues. I would not feed any of those products to my own horses.

TC Senior is beet pulp based and balanced for an aging horse. The Born to Win ration balancer would be okay for a younger horse in good health, but I would not recommend it for a horse that needed weight, especially heading towards fall. You would like his weight to be good going into winter.

The total NSC on Triple Crown Senior is 16% so it would work well for a cushings horse. Here in PA we retail the TC Senior for $18.20 per 50# bag.  

My horse isnt in misery. He has had health problems in the past, but is still rideable and looks great.  He's just not up for the 4-5 hour rides we do now, especially not carrying 200lbs of boyfriend and tack.  He'd try, but it's not fair to him.  He has all his teeth, he runs, and bucks in the pasture, has no trouble getting up from laying down, and aside from being on pergolide for his cushings, his only other special requirement is the feed.  I didn't think that my post indicated that my horse was in misery.  If I wanted to kill him off, I don't think I'd ask for advice on feeding him.

Amanda

hey bbmfg3... why don't we put all old souls down at some point... animals and humans,too! how 'bout puttin people down at say... 57ish??? or should we start at 45? and horses at about 8 years old so we don't need to bother with them. Some of us have respect and keep our old friends around until they are unable to thrive.

I have a 27 year-ol gelding and lost a 22 year-old mare to cushings. I feel for you in worrying about how to maintain his health. My old guy has developed a "hay" prefence due to the ease of chewing! This year has been a challange in finding leafy orchard grass. Still on the hunt. Our old friends are a joy to have around.

Do you have orchard grass or ttimothy in your area? It might be worth a try to see if you can locate some. Orchard grass and Timothy has a good level of protein (around 7-11%), but not as rich as alfalfa. Is he able to eat hay? Might be better for him to eat his calories in hay versus a high grain intake even if the grain intake is low in protein. Smaller, slower fed meals are better since they do not spike inuslin as when a large meal of grain is fed.

I'ld like to speak about "fixed" formula versus "least cost"...

A fixed formula means that XX pounds of beet pulp, XX pounds of corn, xx pounds of this and xx pounds of that, etc. etc. are used.  Now, if a "load" of corn, let's say, had a bad season and only barely meets minimum nutrition, well.. that is not taken into account. A fixed formula puts all the same ingredients in regardless of their nutrient value.

Now, taking a company that MEASURES the ingredients in terms of nutrient values and then adjusts the amounts used to ensure that those ingredients meet the standards as stated on the feed tag, that's another story.

I don't believe that Purina uses least cost in its PREMIUM feeds - aka, Equine Senior, Omolenes, Strategy, Ultium, etc.

Major feed companies all spend many dollars on research and many dollars on marketing. Every feed company has had problem loads. THe larger the company, and the larger the quantity of raw grains used, and the larger the volume of shipped product = more publicity when something goes bad. And... it goes bad for everyone, at some point in time.

Regardless of all that -  Purina as another new product out - WellSolve I think it is... you might ask about that if Purina products are easy to get.

Triple Crown is highly recommended by many folks; I believe Nutrena has a low starch feed... they too have had some quality issues in the past.

Equine Senior does not have as much molasses as many people think (myself included). I always thought it was sticky from molasses. It's sticky from the oil used in it.

NSC = Non structural carbs (carbs from non-fiber substance)

Buckeye Safe n easy Textured has 16.1% NSC. triple crown low starch has 15.0% NSC  Senior Glo 9.0%, Moorglo 17.8% Seminole Happy Hoof 15.0% Buckeye Grow n Win 15% Nutrene Vitality Controlled Starches 6-10%  Blue Seal Carb Guard 11.0%  Spillers/ Seminole Safety 1st Perf Pellets low starch 8%, Spillers/ Seminole Meadow Herb low starch 8% LMF Low NSC Stage One 10.0%  Horse Chow 100 has 16% NSC - but again, you have to feed large amounts.

Purina Ultium is 18% NSC and 12% fat. but you have to feed large amounts and it's also expensive.

Oh, there's always Alfalfa pellets - 9.3% NSC, but no fat (use corn or veggie oil).

Timothy Hay 1st or 2nd is 15% Alfalfa Hay is 13.0 - again, although these numbers are low, they constitute a large portion of the horse's daily ration.

That gives you an assortment of low NSC feeds to try..

If you want a high fat supplement, instead of using oil, Purina's Athlete is great. It has no molasses, 14% fat, 14% protein. In the winter I add 3/4 pound of this to my 21 year old QH, along with his other feed. A 50 pound bag lasts a long time at that rate. : ) 1 measuring cup is 6 ounces of Athlete, so I give my guy 2 measuring cups of that a day.

Whoops. forgot about Athlete's NSC. It's 45% - BUT if you only feed .75 pounds a day, that is VERY little NSC actually going into the system as .75 pounds of a horse's 20 pound daily diet is .0375% of the total 20 pounds.

Conceiveably, you could feed alfalfa pellets and athlete, with a multivitamin.

good luck.

I'd keep it simple.  Soak some beet pulp (no molasses), add a probiotic like Yea Sacc.  Some joint supplement (Fluid Flex) as well as some good quality soybean oil, olive oil, or canola oil.  Feed that three times a day if you can't feed/digest hay...if you can, then go twice a day.  Old timer.  Not stupid.  Don't try and over-think things.

Horses need fodder (roughage i.e. beet pulp...soaking it makes it easier to swaller), they need gastric enzymes (probiotic) and they need fat (oil) for long-lasting energy.

Beet pulp is the cheapest, most nutritious, but most underutilized equine feed source around.  We use it as a hay replacement when hay gets too high in winter.

Ask 10 equine nutritionists what to feed your horse, you'll get 40 different answers.  I just know what works for older horses.

Horses can founder and recover and be pain free.  His episodes through the years (even before I got him) were not the horrid ones with severe rotation or sinking of the coffin bone. I work with my farrier, and my horse is barefoot, trimmed frequently, and not in chronic pain.  He is not on any joint supplements, he does not creak crack or pop, he is on medication to treat the cushings to prevent future outbreaks. He no longer has the cresty neck or potbelly. He outruns all the other horses in the pasture, and is the first one to come when called. If my animal was in misery, I would not prolong it.  I can tell that he wants to keep going.  I would also be able to tell when it was time to say goodbye.

I thank everyone for the great advice, but it really seems that Central Illinois is void of dealers that carry these feeds.  How far do all of you travel to get yours? I'm going to do some searching and calling to see who can get what feeds for me.  Keep the advice coming...

How do you all handle beet pulp soaking in winter climates? Keep it inside? Doesn't it have to soak overnight, or I've heard that it is a falsehood that you can't feed it dry.  But some people say that your horse will either choke or explode.  I'm not too sure of that.

Amanda

I soak the beet pulp that I get (it's shredded very finely) for about 30 minutes.  I start soaking it, throw hay, clean stalls or whatever, and then give the beet pulp and grain (it's great for getting them to eat supplements that they might avoid in dry feed).  If I do this AM, I make sure that I have things to do other places around the house or barn.  I don't feed it every feeding, but since we have coastal hay, I usually give something with coarser fiber with the hay. 

I use Safe Choice as my grain and have been pretty happy with it.  I use a bit of the 14% textured feed for flavor but 75% Safe Choice and sometimes oil, sometimes beet pulp (with less grain), and I feed alfalfa.  I've had horses of all ages do well on slight variations of the above.  good luck! 

Angel wrote:

But some people say that your horse will either choke or explode.  I'm not too sure of that.

NO horses will not explode from dry beet pulp. The fallacy is that the stuff will sit in the stomach and suck fluids from the horse and expand, yada yada. Their gut doesn't work that way. When the stomach becomes full, the contents are pushed to the small intestine.

Choke. now that's a possibility depending on the horse. I've seen horses choke an a number of things including pelleted food and hay cubes.  I prefer to soak hay cubes and if I fed beet pulp, I would probably, at least, wet it.

So far as cost. Sigh. There are sugar plants less than 10 miles from me and from the nearby grain elevators. It used to be they gave the beet pulp - no molasses - away by the truck load. People would go there with their pickups and get a full load for free. Then they started charging and soon - beet pulp was as costly as hay cubes since it became a feed commodity for all livestock.

So far as the idiot comment about founder and a horse in perpetual pain. It's amazing how medical science has come so far and now it's known that horses suffer from LAMINITIS before they experience founder. and as AngelMay said - horses can recover from either and be pain free with proper diet, exercise, and treatment.

Good Gosh - I bet there are millions of people that are glad that they weren't "put down" when they suffered a debilitating injury that took diet, exercise,and medical treatment to fix.  

If you go to the triple crown website or call them they can tell you where the closest dealer is.

http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/distributors.php

800.451.9916

Laminitis can also be caused by insulin resistance in the horse (See also Equine Metabolic Syndrome, below. Insulin resistant horses tend to become obese very easily and, even when starved down, may have abnormal fat deposits in the neck, shoulders, loin, above the eyes and around the tail head, even when the rest of the body appears to be in normal condition. The mechanism by which laminitis associated with insulin resistance occurs is not understood but may be triggered by sugar and starch in the diet of susceptible individuals. Ponies and breeds that evolved in relatively harsh environments, with only sparse grass, tend to be more insulin resistant, possibly as a survival mechanism. Insulin resistant animals may become laminitic from only very small amounts of grain or "high sugar" grass. Slow adaptation to pasture is not effective, as it is with laminitis caused by microbial population upsets. Insulin resistant horses with laminitis should be removed from all green grass and be fed only hay that is tested for Non Structural Carbohydrates (sugar, starch and fructan) and found to be below 11% NSC on a dry matter basis. Soaking hay underwater may remove excess carbohydrates and should be part of a first-aid treatment for any horse with laminitis associated with obesity or abnormal fat deposits. This can have the effect of depleting the hay of soluble minerals and vitamins, however, so care with dietary balance is important.

What should I do if my horse has an attack of laminitis?

The first thing to do is identify and remove the cause of the problem and call a veterinarian. Treatment is given to relieve pain and reduce swelling and the horse is put on a carefully monitored feeding program. X-rays of the feet may be required to monitor progress.

Long term management of a horse with founder requires careful attention to feeding to prevent a recurrence. The horse will probably have to be kept off pasture and fed hay. To keep the foot in as normal a shape as possible, corrective trimming at regular intervals by a farrier will be necessary. Corrective shoeing might also be indicated.

Chronic cases can be kept reasonably sound by proper trimming and shoeing and a sensible feeding program. However, if the horse cannot be kept pain-free, euthanasia may be the kindest option.

Since this is standard fare recommendations found in many vet and farrier articles, this might be where the suggestion came from...

Holy Crap - you guys are diagnosing a horse you've never seen!!

How do you know his original laminitis/founder was from IR? (insulin resistance)  Maybe he had a fever from Potomac Horse fever, or West Nile or a virus or any other number of causes. Maybe he had a bad abscess that caused the original laminitis. Laminitis can be caused as we all know from an excess grain load or even a road founder can occur. There are many causes of laminitis and founder. Just because the horse now needs low sugar feeds and forage doesn't mean the horse has ALWAYS required that.

 The horse is 27 years old. The owner must be doing something right. She has stated the horse is not in pain. Are you calling her a liar?

Nothing like taking a simple question and turning it into something awful.

Reread what I said...IF he can't be kept pain free...but Vets/Farrier teams have made great advances in dealing with this problem...so there is a greater likelihood of the horse surviving for more years...It just requires the owner to be more proactive in the horse's managment...