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Commens on the Derby?

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-05-04 8:44 AM (#83082)
Subject: Commens on the Derby?


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heritagelanefarm
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2008-05-04 10:21 AM (#83084 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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Had tears in my eyes watching the tragedy of Eight Belles. Running/reining, cutting, pleasure riding, etc., on undeveloped limbs is something I do not understand! The other sport to have a record number of euthanizations for the season is top level three day eventing, specifically the cross country. At the Rolex held April 24-27 at the Kentucky Horse Park, 2 horses had to euthanized after falls. One of the riders involved was flown out by helicopter, broken ribs, both lungs collapsed, etc. (Horse City.com, Triumph & Tragedy). That brings the season number to 9. Because of the high number of equine fatalities, a summit was called, held in Denmark. This was prior to Kentucky. Steps are being attempted by gaining a consensus to prevent horses making the leap to this level that are not ready. (Paper Horse, May, 2008  issue). As a spectator at the Atlanta Olympics on the Cross Country Course, it was clear, even to this untrained eye that a number of the horses did not belong at that level of competition. It was, by and large, those from small countries.

Brenda

Yes, I know, $$$$$.

Brenda



Edited by heritagelanefarm 2008-05-04 10:42 AM
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-05-04 12:01 PM (#83091 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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These horses are being used too hard at too young an age. They are often broken down by the age of four or five. It's criminal

Gard

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-05-04 1:50 PM (#83097 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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Was the first part of my post deleated? Seems lke something missing since I first typed it.
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belleabres
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-05-04 2:06 PM (#83099 - in reply to #83084)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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AMEN ! excellent post. What would change the age of a race horse? or a reining horse, how did it get to be that it was ok to destory these babies, didn't they use to race horses at older ages. Who could change it? everything always comes back to money. still  maybe there is hope, the turf has been improved. Something else, is there no weight limit these young horses in reining have to carry? at least the race horses have that. just a thought or two on a very sad subject.  cj
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kershawsowner
Reg. Jan 2006
Posted 2008-05-04 5:06 PM (#83104 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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all for the love of the all mighty dollar
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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2008-05-04 5:22 PM (#83106 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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Multiple stuides have found that bone density and strenght improved when young horses were subjected to training at eariler ages than those horses who were older before put into training. So calling this Criminal is a bit of a reach.

Its a unfortuate event when something like this happens but if you didn't notice the other 19 horses didn't break down. If racing its self was that bad, you'd have seen 3-4-5 more drop like flies. But you didn't. You probably didn't see all those other races on the Churchill card where again all horses cross the finish line and went back to barn in good shape.

Horses have been know to injury themselves playing in a field,training for competition,in the breeding shed,or at work. The fact is - shit happens. Its bad for the racing industry that this happened on national TV- you get knee jerk reactions like ban the sport,ban 3 yr olds from racing, whatever.

When race horses are injured, it is likely in the best interest of the horse not to race again and find a different career. I find this to be far more humane that trying to get the horse sound enough, only to have a more catastrophic injury end their life and there is always the financial factor- some horses have more value as a breeding animal than the wait and see approach to injury rehab.We all face financial conserations with our horses yet racing always manages to get a bad rap...all about the money. Everything in life has something to do with money....

 

anyway, I am not someone who stands up and demands other give up a sport just because i didn't like something that happened just as I don't want someone doing that to me.

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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2008-05-04 5:51 PM (#83111 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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Unfortunately every episode like this breakdown and euthanization...is just fuel to PETA movement against the equine community...

 

And this years ROLEX...didn't help any...with two horses being put down...



Edited by PaulChristenson 2008-05-04 5:53 PM
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IcePonyGoddess
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2008-05-04 7:26 PM (#83114 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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Race CARS....not horses and dogs.
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notfromtexas
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2008-05-04 7:35 PM (#83116 - in reply to #83114)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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Originally written by IcePonyGoddess on 2008-05-04 7:26 PM

Race CARS....not horses and dogs.

It's not just racing.  A horse can break down doing anything.  As was said, it's often to do with starting a horse too early...backing a QH or a TB at 16 months so that they will be ready for the 2 year old races or the snaffle bit futurities.  Why do they do it?  MONEY.  A possible solution would be to offer more money in "older" classes.  The so-called senior classes for 6 year olds, for example. (And it is just crazy to call 6 year olds "senior" horses). 

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loveduffy
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2008-05-04 10:46 PM (#83135 - in reply to #83116)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?



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Unfortunately horse could die at any time, a horse died on the trails last year, just fell over, nobody know why. sport horse are at bigger risks  and when you play at there leave you gamble it all
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Frankie001%
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2008-05-05 7:03 AM (#83145 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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Heard about the two horses that were put down and both horses were owned by Barbaro's owners.  Our horses are in a barn where there are race horses.  These horses are trained every day, basically they have to run to earn their keep or they will be sold.  The ages range from 2 years to 5 years.  All run at the track one time or the another.  We have seen two different trainers, each with their own staff, each with their own training style.  We also have seen horses with their knees blown out, and other problems.  I have read up on certain horses like Seattle Slew.  His owner did not run him to death.  A example of trading horses is our horse.  She raced but did not win, was sold and went to Michigan.  The new owner wanted her for breeding and tried.  The vet said she was to young and she should wait for her to mature (she was two years old).  She did not want to.  She sold her to us.  We do not run her at the track, nor did we want to breed her at the time.  She grew and her legs are strong and she is healthy (she does crib).  The trainer who is racing horses where we are at also saw our horse.  We bought her first and that is what saved her from a life of running all her life or being breed just for because of her pedigrey.  Owners could wait for the horses to be trained later but why?  Alll equine owners know how much it cost to raise, train, and feed their animals.  So getting the money back makes sence and is needed (sometimes at the cost of the animal).  Having the horses insured helps but you really lose alot more.  Some owners do not even see their horses only when they are on the track, at the winners circle, or the money is sent to them.  There could be changes if the racing industry wanted it.   

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arinekhen
Reg. Apr 2008
Posted 2008-05-05 2:17 PM (#83191 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?



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I'm so new to horses, I just don't know what to think for certain. My first reaction after the race was, to hell with this sport; they just push them too damned hard, too damned early, and for no good reason. I know it's entirely possible for a horse out in a pasture by itself to do itself in accidentally. But it isn't being pushed to the limit by someone else, is it? I then tried to think about this in terms of those horses who are injured while actually working on a ranch or something, asking myself, does racing count as working? But I don't think it does: I think racing is an unnecessary risk for an animal that gets no choice in the matter. Race cars drivers get a choice, horses don't. Now, would I condemn a rancher whose horse was fatally injured while working? Absolutely not - unless I thought they'd been negligent. I believe horses are a gift, and that we are meant to reap the benefits of that gift. We would not be a civilization without them. But I also believe that we will be held responsible for their misuse. Anyway, I never came to any hard conclusions, but I think the feeling I'm left with is this. I'd automatically trust a rancher to do what is best for their horses, until they demonstrate they're not worthy of that trust. On the other hand, I'd automatically DIStrust a race horse owner or trainer, until I saw evidence that they actually give a damn. Not a fair attitude, perhaps, but that's what the last few years of competition injuries has led me to.

I'm looking forward to seeing what more of you have to say about this.
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-05-05 2:17 PM (#83192 - in reply to #83145)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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 There could be changes if the racing industry wanted it.   (quote)

As long as there are thousands and thousands of dollars to be made,they won't want anything but that.



Edited by crowleysridgegirl 2008-05-05 2:18 PM
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JacciB
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2008-05-05 2:38 PM (#83194 - in reply to #83192)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?



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Originally written by crowleysridgegirl on 2008-05-05 2:17 PM

 There could be changes if the racing industry wanted it.   (quote)

As long as there are thousands and thousands of dollars to be made,they won't want anything but that.

I agree, there could be changes made IF the racing industry wanted it.  I don't mean to change this thread, but being an owner and shower of TWH I have seen changes within the equine community with regard to the TWH.  IMO abuse is abuse regardless of the breed, sport or activity for which the horse is being used.  Does an injury automatically indicate abuse?  NO!

Has the emphasis changed from participation due to a love of the sport or animal to the all mighty dollar?  IMO  YES!

Safe and Happy Trails to all.

JacciB

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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2008-05-05 7:17 PM (#83207 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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Racing isn't a perfect sport but in the name of horse health, many tracks have spent millions replacing dirt with polytrack surfaces. The early results have shown fewer break downs but itstoo soon to make the determination that the new surfaces will reduce injuries signifigantly.

These type of catastrophic breakdowns are rare but they do happen. 19 other horses finished the race sound and healthy as well as all the other horses that raced that day.

 

As I have posted before numerous studies have shown bone strenght and density is greater in race horses started at an early age VS those started later. its actually benefical for horses to be started young.

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-05-05 7:32 PM (#83208 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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I wonder how many really did finish sound.Swollen joints,bad sore the next few days etc.
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notfromtexas
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2008-05-05 8:26 PM (#83210 - in reply to #83207)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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As I have posted before numerous studies have shown bone strenght and density is greater in race horses started at an early age VS those started later. its actually benefical for horses to be started young.

It's beneficial to be started young perhaps, but not to the extent that most horses are.  My old QH colt was backed at 2 y.o., worked under saddle lightly for a month, then put back to pasture for a year to mature.    Every horse will be different, of course. 

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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2008-05-05 8:33 PM (#83212 - in reply to #83210)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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Did some come out of the rce with bruises,bumps or some filling? Perhaps. but they did not break both legs or even one. The point is while these break downs happen they are not the norm and it doesn't not justify radical changes.

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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-05-05 8:41 PM (#83214 - in reply to #83212)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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cowpony01
Reg. Mar 2006
Posted 2008-05-05 9:26 PM (#83216 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?



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What I think is a bunch of horse poop on the article I read is they are trying to blame it on the track and try to make tracks better, that's just plain bulls**t!!!!!

Put a halt on racing at such a young age and set the minimum age higher maybe even 6 or 7 years! Are these people that are considered the best among breeding Thoroughbreds and the best trainers experts or idiots? I belive also in my opinion that they have more money to throw around and wast than anything else.

They also stated in the article I read the the breeding for stamina was down and how do the fix that? Well duh! quit inbreeding, this is something I belive you will see change if the environmentalist and animal rights people get ahold of, this or those like PETA.

I IMHO, it all falls back on the age of the horse racing so young..............

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N2ridin
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2008-05-05 10:21 PM (#83222 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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I have REFUSED to watch a horse race since the great filly Ruffian broke her leg.  I'll never forget that sight and for that reason, I did not see this years Derby.  I hate it, I hate it, I hate it !  Too young, too fast, and too hard.  The whole thing sucks.
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calamityj
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2008-05-05 10:41 PM (#83228 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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This is a pretty volatile subject... I think it used to be even worse (like in the 50's and 60's) when they just shot them right there on the track! They do try to save them if they can, now. Most horses must be conditioned early to the sport in which they are intended (by their owners-obviously they have no choices). I still cried when this filly gave It All til her last breath..
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genebob
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2008-05-05 11:16 PM (#83232 - in reply to #83082)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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I think the problem is that these horses are bred more for speed than for soundness. Those of that ride working QH's are looking for a horse that is bred for soundness, doesn't have to be real fast but can go all day. the other part of the equation is that these horses are athletes. Just like humans, accidents happen. One part of your body may be predispositioned to failure. How many football players blow out their knees? Horses aren't any different other than they need four legs and really can't use crutches very well.
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-05-05 11:31 PM (#83235 - in reply to #83232)
Subject: RE: Commens on the Derby?


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I've seen this happen on a much smaller scale money wise and otherwise in our chosen breed,the foxtrotters.Old style ones in their pictures were solid ,stocky built ,working all -around horses.They were crossed with the finer boned walkers to refine their confirmation.The show horses that I see in the ring at Ava,MO are so fine boned and delicate,like little china dolls,almost.Delicate,dainty,pretty,but I can't imagine riding them in rocky steep hills for miles and miles even though they have to be in top condition to go around and around a ring for 30 minutes or more in a class and holding a foxtrot for a long time when called. I prefer the stockier built horses for trail riding as we do,but they are not easy to find in the breed.And not revered nearly as much,I don't believe,as their ancestors were.The inbreeding of these "show" lines has changed their confirmation from its' original by a long shot.
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