I plan to replace my little stock trailer with a 2H.  When I do, i know I am going to be asked to share a ride to nearby trails (5-15 miles) with riding friends from my barn.  I have no problem doing that, and in fact like having people to trail ride with - but I am worried about liability.  I have "heard" that by accepting help with gas money that you can invalidate your insurance as that is construed as commercial hauling.  I have "heard" that you can be on the hook in case of an accident, even if you are not at fault.  I don't mean to sound paranoid, but I don't want to lose my retirement savings over doing a favor and hauling to a little trail ride!  Can someone tell me how to find the facts on this?  Is it best to discuss with my insurance company?  Should I get something from them in writing?  I know people say they never give rides except to close friends, but with the price of gas, it makes sense to horsepool if we can.  Besides, close friends or not, in an accident, it is the insurance companies that go after you, not your friends.

thanks

I am not an attorney and my opionin is very uneducated on this subject. And this is not something I've worried about or explored. 

But I haul friends with me all the time. I also ride with them on many occassions.

With some,  I don't give them money for gas, since I know I won't get any money from them when they drive. We just take our turns.

With others I'll let them fill the tank with fuel.

In the big picture, it's been 40 years since I had an auto accident. I don't know of any accidents that my friends have been involved in. I would not load my horse or myself in a vehicle driven by somebody who I thought was reckless. Nor would I ride with somebody who I thought did not take care of their vehicle.

I have had or seen numerous horse wrecks. I am more concerned about my riding partners being able to help me if I got hurt and my being able to help them if they got hurt while riding a horse. We often ride on very remote trails, often in wilderness areas. It could take several hours for a rider to just get back to the trailhead and chances are the cell phone won't have a signal there. Medical help could take hours to arrive.

I usually have room in my trailer. So it's not uncommon when we go for extended trail rides to have somebody ask if they can throw an extra horse in my trailer. I've met some nice folks while sharing a ride. While I may not have known them prior to the ride, they are usually friends of friends who invited them, not total strangers. In fact I recall one ride where I was asked to pick up Mitt Romney, his wife and their two horses. It was a great opportunity to spend a day with a prominent individual.

I guess what I'm saying is that there are so many other things to worry about. I choose not to worry about this.

Friendship is a very fleeting commodity, when an injury or damage is incurred. With the assistance of attorneys, "facts" are changed to suit the cause, and the best of intentions can be presented as immoral plots.

When we first built our boarding facility, many of our boarders were friends. One, an experienced rider and multiple horse owner, was riding her own horse in our out door arena by herself. Her horse spooked, she was thrown, her forearm was broken.

As soon as she was able, the boarder enlisted the aid of an attorney. We were then presented with many "facts" that described our actions as the root cause of our boarder's injuries.

As a result, no neighbor hood children are allowed near our barn, no friends use our indoor facilities, we no longer board or give lessons. We are in effect living in a self imposed isolation, out of fear of loosing everything in another lawsuit. We can't start over now if we lost our home.

In today's environment, people are quick to point a finger and say, "it's your fault I'm having a bad day. It's not my fault". Few people are willing to take responsibility for their own actions.

I grew up with  life lessons and instructions, I was always expected to help anyone in need. I still feel this way. But these feelings are now tempered with a large hesitancy of what happens if I'm sued for my efforts.

I took a CPR and first aid class, and in it, many people asked about liability issues and the "Good Samaritan Rules". My instructor's teacher was a doctor. He stopped at the scene of an accident to help a man badly injured. He trached the man who was choking and saved his life. That man later sued for his scar and the unimaginable humiliation at having to go through life with it on his neck.

Be careful what you do around other people. Some will not always be your friends.

Gard

Wow, thank you both for your input.  My life view is somewhere in the middle - i want to be generous and share, but I have heard similiar stories (everything from kids hurting themselves in your backyard to horse related) and just want to make a balanced decision.  Gard, your story is exactly the kind of thing I fear, you try to do the right thing, and even if you are right, it costs alot of money just to defend yourself.   I am in my 40s and have never caused a wreck - I have been hit twice however by careless drivers behind me (not trailering related).  I realize that while I am careful, we all make mistakes, accidents happen, and other people make mistakes.  I am not looking for legal advice, more just advice how to minimize the risk - who to contact etc. 

So, I have an older Logan 6x12 stock with a tack that fits 2 smaller horses great.  My paint is a moose and takes up the whole thing and he isn't impressed with the 6'10" height either.  I want a newer trailer, but I know the moment I upgrade I will suddenly be in the position to offer rides (or be asked) and want a plan.

I guess my next step will be to contact my insurance company.

Sheryl

When it comes to lawsuits, it rarely matters if you are blameless or not. It is often dependent on if the opposing attorney thinks you have some assets he can attach; IE "deep pockets". This results in a defense that is paid for out of your pocket. You can be sued for anything, at any time, even if you aren't directly involved. It is then up to you to prove you weren't negligent.

Your legal costs are rarely covered under insurance. Insurance often only pays a claim if you are found to be liable, or when a payoff is less than effecting a legal defense. Even then you pay more, because you insurance history will show a paid claim against you.

Contracts are the same. They will not prevent anyone from suing you. Again, is it less expensive to mount a defense to prove your rights, or to pay the claim and have it all go away? Either way, again you will pay something.

Horses and people are accidents waiting to happen. Friends or strangers can be hurt in a second, whether you had anything to do with it or not. In another posting was the story of a woman who was thrown from a horse because of the inter reaction of her horse and a dog. She was permanently injured and her medical expenses were large. The owner of that loose dog could be paying dearly.

 If a child's foot were crushed under the hoof of a friend's horse, while it was being unloaded  from your trailer, you could be sued, regardless if you were even present when it happened. It wouldn't be the horse owner's fault, it would be your's. You weren't there to supervise, you should have known the bridle was ready to break, you should have know his children weren't knowledgeable around horses, you knew the owner wasn't familiar with your trailer, etc etc ......... any number of excuses can cost you many heart breaks and money.

I'm sorry that I'm coming off as MR doom and gloom. I've been there and experienced the legal system. I've been on many jury panels, seen many more court cases and have intimate knowledge of several good attorneys. The system isn't for justice, it's for who yells the loudest and can hire the best legal representation.

Gard

After reading this thread, I just want to quote:

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

That's Shakespeare...so I guess litigation was alive and well 500 years ago, too.  How sad that we cannot go out of our way to help people without the fear of someone thinking that we are to blame for it.  It is so true that very few people will take the blame for their own actions anymore. I believe that in England, if you bring a court case that is judged to be unvalid, that the person bringing the case has to pay court costs.  We should adopt something like this.

A common thought is spread throughout these threads; insurance. If many of you were to read your homeowner's policy, you will probably find that any coverage of large animals is EXCLUDED. A separate commercial policy is often needed for those with boarding facilities, give lessons, transportation etc.

The catch 22 is that even if you are covered, a policy usually only pays if you are found negligent. So if you are sued, and did nothing wrong, in all probability you will receive nothing from the insurance company. Your defense is your own expense.

You can be sued regardless if you are just being reimbursed for fuel, or charging a fee for hauling. Neither of these conditions are usually included in any homeowner's coverage. Any transportation of a large animal has to have a specific coverage under a seperate rider.

Please don't think that your home insurance will help you in a horse related action. Become proactive and learn what coverage you do have, and what you should avoid to protect yourselves. A few minutes meeting with your insurance agent will be very enlightening. It would be well worth your time to make an appointment.

Gard

I DON'T want you to BE PARANOID...but I do want you to be protected...

IF...You are going to accept ANY monetary compensation...YOU BETTER HAVE COMMERCIAL INSURANCE...

If something were to go wrong...During the lawsuit, It will NOT be you mentioning the exchange of money...it will be your friend's lawyer...

Not only that, opposing cousel could notify the IRS that you are accepting CASH and NOT declaring it...an the IRS will have you on the list to be audited in a heartbeat...

And the moment a monetary exchange is mentioned...watch your home owner's insurance representatives run for the bushes...cancelling your insurance and leaving you unreimbursed for your defense...

Just remember NO GOOD DEED (that has some monetary exchange) GOES UNPUNISHED...

Mentioned earlier. anybody can be sued for any reason.  While there may be doubt over the outcome, legal defense is always costly.  Yet, I chose to live life.  I allow... no.. I taught and encourage a neighbor girl to ride my horses.  There is always a risk her parents may sue the farm from under us.  So we have trained her to always wear a helmet, respect a powerful and quick animal, and follow the safe procedures of handling horses.  We still enjoy her company and her child's perspective on all of horsing, that us old fuddy duds have taken for granted over the years.

On a note to the original topic ... I just read in my auto policy under exclusions... Where the insurance company does not provide coverage for bodily injury.

"... This exclusion does not apply to share the expense car pool..."

That's a good question to ask the insurance agent.  Does a payment for fuel and expenses while sharing a ride include a truck & horse trailer as a "car pool" ?

There was also a clause that excluded  damage liability to property that is being transported by me (the insured).  I take that to mean that a horse injured in my trailer is NOT covered by my insurance.

Perhaps I should make owners of ride-along horses sign a notice to that effect.  "Your horse rides in my trailer at your risk"

The best time to find out if you have the insurance coverage you need, is before an accident occurs.

Gard

Hosspuller...nothing I said should discourage you from doing the things that you have done, but you should take steps to protect yourself and your assets from the frivolous suit, by taking the simple precautions of getting basic releases in WRITING...and hopefully you've read your state equine liability law...Here is a NorthCarolina's as of 2007... http://www.americanequestrian.com/legal/NC.htm

Having your attorney draw up some simple release documents in UNDERSTANDABLE language, NOT LEGALESE, will go a LONG WAY to protect you...

For everyone else, here is the list for all the states as of 2007... http://www.americanequestrian.com/equinelaws.htm

You would be suprised as to what is considered a valid legal case in this country and how some people lose cases because of pure technical reasons, i.e. a perfectly valid case is dismissed because it was filed after the statute of limitations ran out...In this particular case, they got another lawyer and sued the first lawyer for legal malpractice...

If you are ever bored and want to entertain and enlighten yourself for the cost of the gasoline and your time...Take a trip down to the courthouse and sit in on the current docket of civil cases that are being tried...and for REAL entertainment stop by small claims court and watch the judge give some people a QUICK and sometimes EXPENSIVE lesson in the US Legal System...

Small claims court cases...Reminds me of the quote... "He who represents himself has a fool for a client and an idiot for a lawyer."

There sure are alot of valid points made here so........does anyone have a legal release of liability for trailering someone else's horses? I rarely do this because of the liabilty issue, but if I had an iron clad release, I may consider hauling a friend or neighbor in our " run around"  trailer. I learned a hard lesson a long time ago not to haul others in my LQ trailer after having a back door almost kicked off, a window broken out, safety bars bent beyond repair, and a divider messed up in a LQ trailer that I had only used a handful of times. We had to pay to have it fixed ourselves and even then, some of the damage stayed with the trailer at a monetary loss to us when the trailer was sold. My hubby reminds me of this everytime someone wants to haul with me in my LQ rig. Most recently, turned down hauling others in LQ trailer and opted to leave it at home  to pull the stock trailer and rent a cabin for a $$$ extra expense on my part just to save friendships and keep the peace. Money well spent!

So ,if any one does have a really good release for hauling others, could you please share it or at least share where you purchased it from?

Paul ... You've added a very good point about the state equine liability law.  We have a liability release from her parent.  We made sure to add the NC liability statement to the release and provided a copy of the law to the parent.  We even have a medical treatment release for her too. (Good to have since she's a minor)

Allright, now there is someone with a plan...

You want to have your form drawn up by an attorney from your state, because he/she will/should be knowledgeable of how laws have been interpreted in your state, Arkansas...

And you should want an addition codicil to put repair costs of your trailer if damaged by friend's horse on your friend...

That being said...I just had this option mailed to me...NOT FREE...but might fit your needs...

http://www.equinelegalsolutions.com/whatsinourformsliability.html#Equine_Hauling_Liability_Release