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Missouri Fox Trotter Help

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mingiz
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2008-04-28 6:47 AM (#82706)
Subject: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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Are there any Missouri Fox Trotter owners out there? I just purchased a MFT filly 3yro 15.0h The lady I bought her from does Arabs and QH's. I asked her if the horse gaited naturally and she said that she has seen her gait on occassion. My question is how do I go about getting this horse to fox trot....This is a new breed to me.  I have ridden one that stayed at a fox trot all day. This filly has just been started under saddle..Any suggestions?  Thanks
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2008-04-28 7:50 AM (#82709 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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The fox trot or any other gait that you want to perfect take time to develope the muscle memory.  The horse may have the conformation for a Foxtrot, but it will need to develop the muscles so that it is the horse's perfered gait. Preferred to a hard trot or other diagnal gait.

You need to take the horse out and work it at a walk,  You will increase the speed of walk , everytime the horse breaks into a hard trot, you need to stop and reset.   Over time the horse will develop the muscles that it needs to use for that gait. Just like you becoming physically fit, the horse will develop and be able to maintain that gait. This is not something that happens over night, unless the horse has already developed those muscles and it's already her prefered gait. As you move up from the walk into the Foxtrot, you will do the same push for faster speed and slow down when ever the  horse breaks into a rough trot.  Lots of wet saddle blankets at what you consider the preferred gaits are needed. If the horse has the breeding and confirmation, you shouldn't have to resort to un-natural means to get the gaits you want ( Chains, weighted shoes etc)

Unlike Quarter horses,  Foxtrotters need to move with their head up higher, you will push them into the bit. Hold your hands steady and let the horses head pivot on the bit as they shake their head in the gait.

Check out the http://www.gaitsofgold.com/ web site for some training articles.



Edited by Painted Horse 2008-04-28 7:54 AM
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classygirl98
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2008-04-28 8:06 AM (#82712 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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Painted Horse, what bit do you use? I am now using the imus bit and have had very good results. You are right about keeping the head up. Diamond, my foxtrotter wants to get his head low and tucked in and hard trot. As long as I can keep the head up and push him on he gaits really well. It has took me a long time to accomplish this. He has always been on the hard trotty side.
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IcePonyGoddess
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2008-04-28 8:17 AM (#82714 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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congratulations on your new gaited horse. please keep in mind...that your horse is still very young. i would not even be on her back until the fall of her 3rd year or spring of 4th year. you may want to work on ground driving and ground work this year. have fun!
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-04-28 9:59 AM (#82724 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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Have you seen her foxtrot? It doesn't automatically happen just because it is a foxtrotter,not even in papered horses with the best bloodlines.I've had foxtrotters that were better run/walkers than they were at a foxtrot,and had some that have had a "rough" foxtrot even tho it was a correct foxtrot to watch it.It will take some time and if you are intent on having a perfect foxtrot,and you horse isn't inclined to make that her "best" gait,you may be disappointed.Not trying to discourage,and,congratulations on having what is in my humble opinion,the best breed of gaited horse around!
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-04-28 11:27 AM (#82733 - in reply to #82724)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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PS didn't mean to sound negative about your young horse just now.Because it is a young horse,you will have to be patient in achieving the gait that you want.I think one of the main problems that occurs in young foxtrotters is: people want to push them for SPEED,and push them too soon.Start out at a good flat foot walk,and be sure your horse is set in that well before advancing.Some horses have to be actively "ridden" as opposed to riding on a loose rein,also.We have a very well bred foxtrotter,but,on the trail,he can't be just ridden casually as my foxtrotter mare on a loose rein.He has to be actively "ridden" if that makes any sense,which,it probably does not.

Lee Ziegler wrote an excellent book on gaited breeds including foxtrotters which she was a huge promoter of.You might want to check out some of her writings.

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ponytammy
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2008-04-28 12:56 PM (#82737 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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You will also need to work on vertical and horizontal flexion too. If she is riding with her head in the air and not broke at the pole, she is hollowing out her back and thus you will get a hard trot. Yes, MFTs travel with their head elevated, but not nosed out. She needs plenty of ground driving and basic ground manner excercises to strengthen muscles. Once she is able to give to the bit, you should see a noticable improvement in her gait. Also, make sure that her feet are trimmed/shod correctly. This can also affect her gait.

Congratulations on your MFT.

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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2008-04-28 7:36 PM (#82756 - in reply to #82712)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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Classygirl,

I do have a Imus bit, But I'm not currently using it.  I am starting two young foxtroters, 4 year old filly & 5 year old gelding. So I am using a full check snaffle on both since I'm still pulling them around some working on softness, one rein stops etc. They are not ready for any kind of a shank bit or a fixed mouth piece.

 

I think when the horses get a little more mature I'll move them into a Gino Middleton curb bit vs the Imus.

http://gmstables.net/bits.htm

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mingiz
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2008-04-29 5:22 AM (#82779 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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Thanks everyone for the advice. I picked up this filly cheap. I do ride a twh. and raised 1 SSH. I'm not in a hurry to start this girl she is started under saddle so I will probably work on ground driving her some then just some basic saddle starting routines. She won't go on the trail untill I feel she is ready mentally. She does W/T/C from what the owner told me..I bought this filly sight unseen other than ad pics. From what a friend told me she is bred well..I don't know much about the breed other than I want one for the ride...I'll post pics after I get her if I can figure how to do it....Thanks
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-04-29 9:16 AM (#82785 - in reply to #82756)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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We do ride our foxtrotters with aluminum bits,however,for another view of long shanked bits on gaited horses,Lee Zeigler's books are very insightful.
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mingiz
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2008-04-30 12:28 PM (#82851 - in reply to #82785)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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Is it a norm to use a lighter/long shank bit on them or is it your preference? I do know that you can get a non gaited - gaited horse..I had a friend that bought 2 MFT the one he rode he couldn't never get him to fox trot. The other one was automatic and he won't sell him to me....lol I realize I have a lot to learn about the breed. I do my basics pretty good. I have the APHA and TWH to ride so the MFT will be taken slow in her training until we get to know each other a little better first. I like to gain thier trust some what before I really get to know them, If she is as good as the owner said then I'll give her time to settle into her new barn then see what I really have... I don't take anything personal. I try to learn from everyone's advise...  Again thx for your help...I'll try and post pics of her when I get her....Happy trails
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2008-04-30 9:47 PM (#82870 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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Just like any other young horse, your first bit that you use will be used to pull their head around. Plow rein.

Breaking a young horse is not the time for a curb bit.  Use a bosal, full check snaffle or something similar that allows you to pull the head around and teach laterial flexation. Once the horse is well under saddle you can advance them into a curb bit.  And yes foxtrotter owners seem to favor lightweight aluminum curb bits. And the show folks seem to like the longer shanks. You probably won't need them in a trail horse.

 

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mingiz
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2008-05-01 5:17 AM (#82892 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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I will use a full cheek snaffle to start with....I will spend alot of time on ground work first. Then we'll work the flexion under saddle. I'm not new to training young ones...Just never a gaited one...But I understand what I need to do. If I have any problems I know that I can come back and say hey HTW peeps HELP!!!!  You guys are DA Bomb
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calamityj
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2008-05-01 8:41 PM (#82951 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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 I've had horses all my life, but foxtrotters are a new breed to our family. We bought a gorgeous perlino filly as a yearling.. she is now three, and is solid on the trail, stout, intelligent, and willing. I recently bought a champayne gelding (8 yr old) who is learning all over again (successfully). We are probably committing some kind of blasphemy? but we ride on a loose rein. They are both gaiting perfectly. And very RELAXED, while many of our peers horses are lathering up and very tense. Anyway you ride them is certainly a "treat" for tired butts!! Happy Trails.
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ponytammy
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2008-05-07 12:04 PM (#83391 - in reply to #82951)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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Mingiz, if you are used to starting colts, then do the same thing to your gaited horse. It is still a horse, not a strange moving creature. The same principles apply. Give to pressure, flex, bend, back, and verbal queues for walk, gait and lope on the lead line. I have taught my MFTs basic dressage movements too. Improved the gait immensly, not to mention great trail manners. Very nice to just apply leg pressure and move over on the trail.
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mingiz
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2008-05-08 5:38 AM (#83472 - in reply to #83391)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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Thanks...Yes a horse is a horse...I pick her up this Sunday. My mothers day gift from me to me....I can't wait...I'll give her some time to settle in and get familar with her new surroundings. Watch her alot to see her personality. Then go to work... I think I'm starting a breed collection, I have a APHA,TWH,mini, and now a MFT...Gee what's next...ALways wanted a good mule....LOL

I posted pics in the albums of the MFT...Didn't realize I did...DUH!!!!

Edited by mingiz 2008-05-08 5:42 AM
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Sharon
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2008-05-08 10:07 AM (#83499 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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I just wanted to post and say these are all GREAT replies.  Too often a post about gaited horses has 50% misinformation! 

I got an RMH/Arab gelding when he was 6 and I had NO experience with gaited horses... which was supposed to be FINE because he was NOT gaited, he trotted.  This is the horse in my avatar.

But that first winter we just walked walked walked because of the deep snow... and also working on learning to walk FASTER... and all of a sudden VOILA, he was doing something awful smooth!  I checked with Liz Graves (well known gaited trainer, along the lines of Lee Ziegler) and now after two clinics with Liz and a lot of conditioning he has a pretty good foxtrot.

Everything posted above was, in my experience, completely true.  I will say too, though, that the bit Liz had us working in was a sweet iron eggbutt snaffle that had a roller that covered the single joint in the mouthpiece... haven't seen too many of them online but it worked great for that early gait work.  These days, because we use foxtrot as just "another gear" during our regular rides, I just use the same Jim Warner hackamore that I use for endurance riding.

Regarding posture and cues... I sit a little bit back on my pockets, keep my shoulders a little bit back, hold my hands higher than usual, and keep the reins shorter than usual.  In addition, for the cue I use steady pressure with both calves, and kiss to him.  These days all I need to do is "assume the position" and he just goes.  I did a little demo at a local Expo a couple weeks ago where I transitioned between trot and foxtrot just to show the crowd what a little change in posture would do.  They were very interested; it was a lot of fun.

Here's a video from our second Liz clinic.  At this stage he was "foxwalking".
http://www.zegifts.com/Design/Assets/images/Zephyr-Foxwalk.WMV

And here's the foxtrot, several years later.  Sorry about the Bear Bells, I didn't expect to be videoing.  Also please excuse my posture, he was being a bit of a butthead about staying in gait (wanted to canter) so I was exaggerating everything.  Finally, I KNOW this is not an acceptable "show" foxtrot because he doesn't really have a relaxed and shaky head/neck... but that's fine with me because it's SMOOTH and he likes it.  It's called a "trail foxtrot" according to one website I've found.
http://www.zegifts.com/Design/Assets/images/zephyrfoxtrot.wmv

Here's the website about the Trail Foxtrot:
http://www.foxtrotters.org/foxtrotting_horse_videos.htm



Edited by Sharon 2008-05-08 10:17 AM
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mingiz
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2008-05-08 11:44 AM (#83513 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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Wow there's some great information there....Thanks for the url....
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-05-09 4:07 PM (#83604 - in reply to #83499)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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That looks a little fast and choppy in the front to be a foxtrot.The hoofbeat cadence doesn't sound like it on the pavement.
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Sharon
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2008-05-10 9:22 AM (#83643 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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Yeah every time I post it I brace myself for comments like that, but I've sent the video to Liz Graves and she says it's a foxtrot.  She does know what she's talking about.  http://www.lizgraves.com/  Keep in mind this is being performed by a horse who is not a MFT, who learned to do this later in life, and who was fighting to canter that day.  Also, this is a very low-res video so it looks choppy anyway.

Here it is, slowed down:  http://www.zegifts.com/Design/Assets/images/zephyr-foxtrot-slow.wmv



Edited by Sharon 2008-05-10 9:26 AM
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-05-11 9:07 PM (#83720 - in reply to #83643)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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Yes,I watched the video,and I see it.Many horses that are not foxtrotters perform the gait and a horse being a papered foxtrotter doesn't guarantee that it will perform it,either.To me,the important question is this: is  your horse SMOOTH no matter what gait it is traveling at? Are you getting a good ride? That is the hallmark of a good gaited horse.
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mingiz
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2008-05-12 5:50 AM (#83736 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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Well everyone I picked up the filly yesterday.Or should I say I rescued a filly yesterday. I got there and the woman never even cleaned her up etc.This wasn't the horse I saw in the ad. I felt so bad for her I bought her. This woman had no coggins etc for this filly.I did get her MFT papers. Her tail has a softball size tangled knot in it.Looks like she may have some rain rot also..she loaded onto the trailer and her 3hr ride home was quiet..She seems very laid back..I taped her to see what her weight was and at 15h she only weighs 679 lbs. I have my work cut out..I posted pics I recieved of her from the owner. I will try and post the ones I took yesterday after I got her home...What irks me is this womans website is totally not what she has..Very nasty farm she has...I still feel like calling animal control in that county on her.
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mingiz
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2008-05-12 6:38 AM (#83740 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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I can't get the links to work to post pics....See if this works..May have to copy and paste to anew browser...http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u93/mingiz/Big%20Horn%20Saddle/SKYE%20May%2011-08/

Edited by mingiz 2008-05-12 7:42 AM
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-05-12 8:37 AM (#83744 - in reply to #83736)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help


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Joanny,NEVER buy a horse that does not have a current negative Coggins test.Nor take one as a donation,either.Where we live,that can cause you all kinds of unwanted problems.

I could not get the link to copy/paste,either.

What is her website?

Edited by crowleysridgegirl 2008-05-12 8:45 AM
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mingiz
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2008-05-12 10:11 AM (#83756 - in reply to #82706)
Subject: RE: Missouri Fox Trotter Help



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I don't usually get one without a coggins...But this one needed help..So i took the chance...She is separate from the others for now....I'm having the vet come out and give her a good once over. I already wormed her, as soon as this nasty wet weather clears up I will give her a good bath and go from there..So far she seems to appreciate her new home..Her (seller)website is http://www.sunsetarabians.com/ But the site and the actual farm aren't/can't be the same.....Or it has gone to hell since the site was put together...the pics of SKYE I took are at: http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u93/mingiz/Big%20Horn%20Saddle/S...
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