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I purchased a horse who was stolen

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Saddlebredlover
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-01-10 5:59 PM (#74175)
Subject: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Posts: 63
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Location: Missouri
This is a real humm-dinger.  Long story short, I purchased a horse from a horse trader 3 months ago and a few days ago got a call from someone who says my horse was stolen from her 5 months ago.  Of course, I'm in love with this horse, but now this person wants her horse back.  Police reports have been filed, people are going to jail and I'm now caught in the cross fire.  Does anyone know if I have any rights?  My once "grade" horse is now a papered horse and guess who has the papers? 
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acy
Reg. Oct 2006
Posted 2008-01-10 6:16 PM (#74177 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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acy
Reg. Oct 2006
Posted 2008-01-10 6:21 PM (#74178 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Wow what a mess!  I feel sorry for you in the middle.  I would assume the original owner has a legal right to get her horse back, as long as she can prove it is hers.   Have you talked to a lawyer?  It could get expensive for you and you still might end up with out the horse.  What about the guy you bought the horse from- or was he the one arrested? 
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Saddlebredlover
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2008-01-10 6:27 PM (#74179 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Posts: 63
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Location: Missouri

Well, from what I can tell, I'm the 3rd owner and I did not get a bill of sale and cannot remember the guys name that I purchased the horse from...I know real stupid on my part. 

On one hand, I feel real sorry for the original owner...but on the other hand I fairly and innocently purchased this horse.  Not to mention, I've become really attached and spent time and money on him...feeding him twice a day and putting hours into training him to be a much better horse than he was when I purchased him.  It's a real bummer.

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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2008-01-10 7:29 PM (#74184 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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You have no rights other than suing the seller, It's called Receiving Stolen Property...

You could offer to buy the horse from the legitimate owner...

But I think you will be disappointed...



Edited by PaulChristenson 2008-01-10 7:32 PM
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IcePonyGoddess
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2008-01-10 8:31 PM (#74188 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Location: East Tennessee, USA, Planet Earth
Wow. I am so sorry to hear this!!! How did they track the horse down? Was it the horse that was sold in MO to am "Iowa Girl".

The horse is legally the "owners" property and you are in possession of stolen property. I feel really bad for you.
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Spooler
Reg. Aug 2006
Posted 2008-01-10 8:31 PM (#74189 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Posts: 544
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Location: Claxton, Ga.

Don't get to bent out of shape about it. Be glad and willing to give the horse back if she is the rightful owner. Think of how you would feel if that had happened to you. That is what can happen if you don't buy a horse with papers.

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flyinghfarm
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2008-01-10 9:05 PM (#74194 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Paul is exactly totally correct.  Get ready to sue the person who sold it to you to recover your purchase price etc.  You are in receipt of stolen property, and in violation of the law. I know you did not knowingly do so, but the law is clear. I feel bad for you.... but the horse goes back to the legal owner, and it is up to you to recover your purchase price from the one who sold it to you... unless a good deal of money was involved, it will be cheaper to absorb the loss and consider the money the price paid for an education harshly earned.....
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rose
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2008-01-10 10:02 PM (#74199 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen




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Location: KY
Everyone is assuming that the person claiming the horse is the true owner.  Think maybe someone needs to see some proof.  My suggestion is to contact a lawyer who knows something about horses and perhaps file an action asking a Court to determine who the rightful owner is.  In the meantime please find the person from whom you bought the horse.  If that person is a dealer in horses you may be protected by the Uniform Commercial Code.
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-01-10 10:38 PM (#74201 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Saddlebredlover, you've received a lot of accurate information in the answers to your question. If the people claiming the horse can prove ownership, you will have to return it. The person you bought it from was not the legal owner, so your sale with him is invalid. Without any papers and not knowing the seller's name, you have no proof, that you are in fact, the new owner.

You are innocent of any wrong doing, but you will pay the price for someone else's greed. As was stated, your only recourse is to try to sue the person from whom you purchased the horse. Depending on in what state you live, a small claims case will vary in a maximum value, usually somewhere between $2000 and $5000. Your only cost to do so, is a filing fee and a fee for the summons to be hand delivered. You do not need a lawyer, and your fees are returned if you win. It will be up to you to prove that you bought the horse from this person, paid the amount you claim, and had no knowledge that it was stolen. if you loose, you forfeit the filing fee.

A friend of mine went through this same process with a car he bought for his son. There wasn't the emotional attachment you have shared, but it was a rough experience, giving up a complete restoration that involved thousands of dollars and countless hours of labour. The original owner didn't have to, and didn't, pay a dime for the improvements.

Best of luck   Gard

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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2008-01-11 12:37 AM (#74207 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen



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Location: Southern New Mexico

     What breed is the horse?  Does that registery require DNA to be on file?  If it does tell the police you want a DNA test and be prepared to pay for it.  If it's not on file, see if you can contact the owners of the sire and dam and run DNA on all 3 horses.  If the person claiming the horse objects I'd be suspicious since your just trying to verify parentage and by that ownership by proving or disproving the papers. 

     My horses are ApHC and I have DNA on file for all of them even thought they only require it on breeding stock.  I figured it would be easier to prove ownership than just having pictures.  Appys can be obvious, but how do you tell one bay/palimino/black/grey or solid horse from the next with out detailed pictures and even then how can you prove they took those pictures while the horse was in their care?



Edited by Terri 2008-01-11 12:39 AM
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PaulChristenson
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2008-01-11 2:13 AM (#74213 - in reply to #74207)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Location: Vermont

Terri, if the other people have a previous Coggins form, any tattoos, brands or peculiar markings related to this horse will be identified...plus the Vet that did the Coggins may be able to identify the horse...

If this is a valuable horse it may even have been microchipped...

 

http://www.kernroadvet.com/coggins_information/coggins-worksheet.pdf

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Frankie001%
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2008-01-11 6:55 AM (#74218 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Posts: 219
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Location: Mt. Clemens, MI 48043

If you go to court you might have to provide a bill of sale (you said you did not get one).  Even a signed piece of paper with the price and date does not have to be fancy.  You are more than likely going to chauk this up as experience.  Also be glad that you are the one that found this horse and took it in your care.  You will probably have to give the horse back - the previous owner might become a friend - you already share one thing in common.  If it was me I would be sad but then if the person is not very far away - we might be able to go riding or showing together.  At least they did not find the horse getting ready to be shipped to be slaughtered.   

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calamityj
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2008-01-11 7:33 AM (#74221 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Posts: 690
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Location: missouri
Ouch! I think I would return the horse to it's rightfull owner after seeing proof of ownership/papers/bill or sale or other evidence... Your expenses of boarding/feeding/keeping should be covered by the real owner without any question.Several years ago in Kansas, we had a deal for the sale of two nice Qtrhse geldings to a man who represented himself as an agent for a youth farm... he had been buying horses with bad checks (kiting) and sending them to slaughter... luckily, my husband smelled something wrong about him and backed out of our sale. The man was caught and lost everything and served jail time. I still don't believe his wife"knew nothing about it"....I am really sorry to hear this kind of stuff. Good luck to you... there really are a lot of great horses out there at a pretty low price right now.
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walkin
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2008-01-11 8:37 AM (#74223 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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You need to return the horse to the owner. 
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-01-11 8:51 AM (#74224 - in reply to #74199)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Originally written by rose on 2008-01-10 10:02 PM

Everyone is assuming that the person claiming the horse is the true owner.  Think maybe someone needs to see some proof.  My suggestion is to contact a lawyer who knows something about horses and perhaps file an action asking a Court to determine who the rightful owner is.  In the meantime please find the person from whom you bought the horse.  If that person is a dealer in horses you may be protected by the Uniform Commercial Code.
  She says in her OP that her once grade horse is a papered horse now,and,"Guess who has the papers" I assume that she's talking about the original owners.
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Spooler
Reg. Aug 2006
Posted 2008-01-11 9:41 AM (#74228 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Posts: 544
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Location: Claxton, Ga.
Yes, I would make them prove that this is the correct horse also..... Gotta have proof.  Spotted Saddle horses are easy to tell.
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tank
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2008-01-11 11:06 AM (#74237 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Posts: 37
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I have often thaught about that and what would I do if that happened? I wish you luck for the best, but I have a bad feeling you will have to give the horse back. I don't see the owner wanting to sell to you, If they have gone this far to track down their horse. If it were me, I wouldn't. I think they have the legal rights.
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dawnb
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-01-11 11:21 AM (#74241 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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AS an owner of a business it is easy to take someone to court and win, but it is very tough to collect the money. You win on paper but lose the money anyway. The defendent get a list on the backside of the court paper on what they can due to delay paying. You have to try garnishing the wages well you are going to have to the employer to garnish part of the paycheck. They system really s*cks this way.
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2008-01-11 1:18 PM (#74248 - in reply to #74241)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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I would imagine by the time it's over with,if it runs the course that it should and this was a stolen horse,nobody's going to collect much,taxpayers are going to be out for someone's upkeep while they're sitting in JAIL.That someone being the person that stole the horse to begin with of course.
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ponytammy
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2008-01-11 4:24 PM (#74253 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Posts: 781
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Location: La Cygne, KS
Being that the horse is registered it might also have a ID chip in it. Have your vet scan the horse to see if one is present. This could also prove the true owener of the horse or the last owner that registered with the chip company (there are several out there that do Micro-chips).
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2008-01-11 6:32 PM (#74258 - in reply to #74213)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen



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Posts: 2828
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Location: Southern New Mexico

If it is a solid horse how could the coggins prove anything.  My old mare's coggins papers just say sorrel mare and my old geldings papers say bay QH.  For a year my vet in Tx used a digital camera and took pictures of the horses and that picture was on the coggins, but he said it was to much of a pain and went back to the one where you just drew in the markings. 

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brushycreekranch
Reg. Jun 2006
Posted 2008-01-11 7:23 PM (#74260 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen





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Location: Central Arkansas
I had this happen to me many years ago, the dealer said he bought the horse legally thru a sale and was not at fault. I got MATCHING registration papers with him that after investagation proved to of been purchased from a killer buyer prior to the sale where the guy I got him from found him. I put my attorney on dealer. One week later, a commercial hauler rolled up with a horse that was bigger, prettier, better bred and much more talented than the "stolen" horse I was about to loose. It took almost 2 months for the "illegal" horse to get "extradited" back. Since, if I didn't legally own him, then why should I pay for his board and haul bill? This too was picked up by the dealer i purchased him from. I think this happens more than we want to think.
I suggest your first call to an attorney, the 2nd to the sherrif's dept and the 3rd to whoever you got him from.
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Gone
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2008-01-12 7:44 AM (#74270 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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I feel for your situation......What would you do if the situation were reversed? I definately would be exhausting efforts on my part in pursuing the person who sold him to you. Go public. Maybe there's someone who will come forward with helpful information. Ya' don't know unless you try.
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flyinghfarm
Reg. Mar 2004
Posted 2008-01-12 10:11 AM (#74283 - in reply to #74175)
Subject: RE: I purchased a horse who was stolen


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Location: Arkansas

Ours are all registered, freezebranded, and microchipped.  The vet has their digital photos that the veterinarian took when getting the coggins.  The brand and microchip numbers are on the coggins and their registration papers.  There are also brand inspection papers.  The worst part of having a horse get stolen is wishing the documentation had been done prior to the horse going missing.  Grade horses that have no markings can still be positively ID'd with brands and chips... best of luck to you in this situation.  You could be compensated for the horse board etc, but the owner also could come back with asking for compensation for the use of the horse... hard to have it both ways.  ...it can all get so sticky, can't it....  hard to guess how a ruling would go in those circumstances......

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