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Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?

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dez
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2006-07-17 3:42 PM (#44848)
Subject: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


Member


Posts: 13

Location: Iowa
I'm not on all the truck forums so would love to hear what's being said on them about this...

If I buy a F350 6.0 now, the pro is that I can get good rebates and APR right now so can buy more truck for my money. The con is that there is a chance that I could get a 6.0 that causes me troubles. If I wait till early next year and get (order?) a 6.4, the pro is that I 'should' get a better engine but the cons are that it will no doubt cost me more (demand will be higher, I'd assume) and I'm not sure if I want to buy a major change like that in its first year of production. Anyone want to chime in? ; - )
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crs996
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2006-07-17 4:22 PM (#44853 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


Member


Posts: 14

Location: Roseville, CA

I had an 04 6.0 and had only minor problems with it, ie: 4 or 5 reprograms of the EPU and some fuel mileage issues, turbo lag and tranny shift issues.  I towed with it and generally liked it but would say a deciding factor would be if you plan to keep it past the warranty period and want to "chip" it.  If not, no problem.  

FWIW, I read somewhere (don't quote me) that International is having issues with the emissions on the 6.4 and this may delay delivery of the new engine.

 

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RoperChick
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-07-17 4:30 PM (#44855 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?



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Posts: 238
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I wouldn't buy any new engine in the first year, I would wait a year or two for the manufacturer to get the bugs worked out.
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iCE CRM
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2006-07-17 4:33 PM (#44856 - in reply to #44853)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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I didn't buy the 6.0 until 05 because of that reason. I have had no problems with it never been back to the dealer. But the fuel mpg could be better. Got plenty power! If they are changing I would wait a while. And that goes with any of them, I don't want to be their tester.
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bcranch
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2006-07-18 7:31 AM (#44897 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


Member


Posts: 17

Location: Southwest Mississippi
Had a 2005 f350 and it left me stranded in the middle of the road loaded with 3 horses and family. (oil pump failed and flooded injectors) Only had 25,000 miles. Traded for a Freightliner w/Mercedes and now I'am wondering why I ever had a dull--ly. Insurance a little higher but notes are the same and with all the features---WOW!!! The @#$# with Ford, Chev, Dodge.
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dez
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2006-07-18 9:57 AM (#44916 - in reply to #44897)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


Member


Posts: 13

Location: Iowa
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I don't know if he was full of bull, and I hope that I don't have to find out, but when I asked the sales rep what would happen if I end up with a bad 6.0, he said that between the warranty and our state's lemon law, I'm 'covered'. Of course, reality is not quite that simple, eh? At any rate, I'm really curious if we're talking 1 out of 2 or 1 out of 2,000 6.0's having trouble....I pondered it all and decided that I don't want to be an experiment with a first year 6.4 so I made my offer on an '06 350 and it looks like the dealer and I are at an agreement. I got a $49,600 stickered truck for $42,400. I don't know if a more savvy buyer could have gotten it down more, but I gave it a shot and they stood firm on the $42,400 (and I'm not sure that I blame them - I got invoice plus $2K in rebates plus 1.9%/60 financing....) GAWD, I hope that in the future, I won't be joining the group of pissed off Ford owners who bought a bad 6.0!
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crs996
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2006-07-18 10:10 AM (#44917 - in reply to #44916)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


Member


Posts: 14

Location: Roseville, CA

 

Best of luck with your new truck!  Hopefully you won't have any troubles with the 6.0, the rest of the truck is great!
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JakeB
Reg. Jul 2005
Posted 2006-07-25 11:39 AM (#45379 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


Member


Posts: 12

Location: SE Indiana
I had a 2004 ford 6.0 powerstroke.  bought it new and it was the most problematic truck besides my '03 Dodge i've ever had.  If I was you, i'd find a nice 1999-2003 Ford powerstroke with a 7.3 motor instead of the 6.0 motor.  I recently found a 2002 F350 with the 7.3 motor and happiest I've ever been.
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muleskinner
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-07-26 9:28 AM (#45428 - in reply to #44916)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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Originally written by dez on 2006-07-18 9:57 AM

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I don't know if he was full of bull, and I hope that I don't have to find out, but when I asked the sales rep what would happen if I end up with a bad 6.0, he said that between the warranty and our state's lemon law, I'm 'covered'. Of course, reality is not quite that simple, eh? At any rate, I'm really curious if we're talking 1 out of 2 or 1 out of 2,000 6.0's having trouble....I pondered it all and decided that I don't want to be an experiment with a first year 6.4 so I made my offer on an '06 350 and it looks like the dealer and I are at an agreement. I got a $49,600 stickered truck for $42,400. I don't know if a more savvy buyer could have gotten it down more, but I gave it a shot and they stood firm on the $42,400 (and I'm not sure that I blame them - I got invoice plus $2K in rebates plus 1.9%/60 financing....) GAWD, I hope that in the future, I won't be joining the group of pissed off Ford owners who bought a bad 6.0!
If you have drank the Ford cool-Aid,then your only choice is to buy an engine with know reliability problems or wait for the one that may be better. Have you thought about what the re-sale value will be on a used 6.0??
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-07-26 11:15 AM (#45441 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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I had the same question a few years ago;
Buy the 7.3 that was heavily discounted but becoming obsolete, or go with the new and wunnerful 6.0. Easy with hindsight (-:
At the time it almost looked as if "bigger must be better" was starting to turn around.

If you can wait 6 months, could you wait 12 ?
That would get you to the "'07s clearance" season, you'd be able to evaluate the availability of low(er) S fuel in your town and if the 6.4 is a REAL lemon there should be SOME data about it.

Lemon laws and warranties only help with reparations, they don't do much for you at roadside in 110 degree heat with a full trailer. In my book PRIMARY RELIABILITY counts for much more than reparation "value".
IOW, it matters much more to me that it NOT fail than that I can get it fixed for free when it DOES fail.

The magazines are raving about the "soon" 6.7 Cummins, which will be the largest displacement engine (if that matters ?) for a 1-ton, currently the 6.6 duramax holds that doubtful distinction.
Crazy that HP and displacement races are still right up there with the manufacturers who are losing market share at record rates ?
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-07-26 2:19 PM (#45460 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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Posts: 1205
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Heck of a saleman to use terms like LEMON LAW.That in itself would tell me something.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2006-07-26 7:37 PM (#45476 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?



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This is a mute point since your post indicate that you have already made the decision and bought a ew truck.

I had a 2000 7.3L and a 2003 6.0L and now a 2006 6.0L

My 2003 and 2006 are better trucks than my 2000. Yes my 2003 had a few of the engine problems. Never left me stranded on the side of the road. But did have some turbo lag and Occassionally would not sense the proper Barametric pressure and would shut down the turbo. I survived. Just became friends with the service manager at the dealer.

My 2006 has 11,000 miles on it now. I tow almost daily. 10,000-13,000 lbs. So it's working.

The 6.0L lacks some low end torque. Starting out from a stop sign or red light with a heavy load ( espcially if on any kind of uphill grade) and you'll wish you had a lower rear end gear ratio. But once you are rolling, it a pleasure to drive.

The new engines (all diesels have to meet new emissions begining Jan 1, 2007) will run on Ultra Low Sulfur. Since most gas stations don't have multiple diesel storage tanks. I'm pretty sure we will ALL be using Ultra Low Sulfur diesel fuel. I really doubt you will see stations install new storage tanks and pumps to handle both kinds of diesel. Finding the new Ultra Low Sulfur may be difficult for a few months, but before long it will be the fuel that gas station carry. We all will be paying for the higher priced Ultra Low sulfur fuel.

The new Ford 6.4 engine will have 350hp. That's a 25 hp bump from the current 325hp.  The larger displacement and sequential turbos are supposed to help with the turbo lag. But they say the engine compartment is much much more crowded and difficult to work in.

Also the new 6.4L will have a Particulate filter in the exhaust. They rumur is that one tank of anything but Ultra Low sulfur fuel will contaminate the filter and require a new filter. Regardless of fuel contamination. It's one more filter to have to service.

I wouldn't chip any of the new Ford engines.  6.0L or 6.4L  I think they are tuned to such a perfection point that messing with the programing just increases your chances of problems. If reliability is a key issue for you. Just leave them stock.

Like you I was considering a 2008 6.4L truck. I buy a new truck every 3 years. The rebates on the 2006 trucks were such that I decided not to wait.  Ford offered a double rebate to original owners of 2003/04 6.0L trucks. With that double rebate, X-plan and Commercial Upfitter rebate I got a new truck for probably $10,000 cheaper than what I think I would have had to

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-07-26 8:03 PM (#45480 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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Location: Danielsville Georgia

Ford offered the double rebates for a incentive to get the problem trucks off owners hands so those trucks are not LABELED buyback or LEMON LAW vehicles (and can be sold with out that label attached to them)and to get the owners in another one.It wasn't just a THOUGHTFUL gesture.

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efaubert1
Reg. Feb 2004
Posted 2006-07-27 6:44 AM (#45502 - in reply to #45480)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?



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Originally written by hounddog on 2006-07-26 9:03 PM

Ford offered the double rebates for a incentive to get the problem trucks off owners hands so those trucks are not LABELED buyback or LEMON LAW vehicles (and can be sold with out that label attached to them)and to get the owners in another one.It wasn't just a THOUGHTFUL gesture.

Ah, hounddog, spiteful as ever. Am I going to have to get my recall book back out and remind you of all the CRAP the other two manufacturers are dealing with again? Leave it alone, we all know that some of the 6.0's were crap.

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barry
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2006-07-27 7:11 AM (#45506 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?



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Posts: 225
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Given the fact that everyone seems to have some problems (percieved or real) with old and new diesels and given the fact that they add $5-7,000 to the price of a vehicle whose chasis and components may wear out before the engine does . . .

Does anyone consider the big gasoline engines such as Chevy's Vortec 8.1L V8 which generates 330 hp @ 4200 rpm and 450 ft lbs @ 3200 rpm. Some of these engines (don't specifically know about this one - though a few friends swear by it) are tried and proven.

Comments?
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-07-27 9:18 AM (#45511 - in reply to #45506)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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Originally written by barry on 2006-07-27 7:11 AM

Given the fact that everyone seems to have some problems (percieved or real) with old and new diesels and given the fact that they add $5-7,000 to the price of a vehicle whose chasis and components may wear out before the engine does . . .

Does anyone consider the big gasoline engines such as Chevy's Vortec 8.1L V8 which generates 330 hp @ 4200 rpm and 450 ft lbs @ 3200 rpm. Some of these engines (don't specifically know about this one - though a few friends swear by it) are tried and proven.

Comments?



From what I've heard/read the anecdotal evidence is that the 8.1 is solid, the 6.0 gasser has had some oil burning problems.

re the 7 or 8K price premium for diesels;
SOME folks have reported that they've got all of that back at re-sale time, so maybe it is a one-time cost that can be carried forward from truck to truck. Of course there is the "opportunity cost" of having that money tied up in vehicles, but that gets into the complexity of one's personal finances. Rates on CDs, gambling to win (or not) on stocks, interest on loans, pay down credit card and other high interest rate debts, borrowing against one's house (equity loans) in a falling market, whatever else.

Yes, if you're not going to be doing a lot of mileage, maybe the gas engine is a better choice. If you're doing low mileage your cost per mile is going to be way high anyway, so maybe a used truck is a better deal.
Maybe calling a hauler if your mileage is REALLY low, i.e. if you're doing 4 or 5 shows a year perhaps even owning a truck and trailer at all doesn't make sense ?
(-:
My point is that the arithmetic is different for each of us.
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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2006-07-27 1:36 PM (#45523 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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I pull with an 8.1/496, Allison, 4.10's in a 2001 3500 Chevy. I'll go and pull pretty much the same loads the diesels pull. They (diesels) will out pull me in the mountains, but not by that much. It does love GAS, gets around 8.0-9.5 towing  10,000#, around 11-12 empty around town. No issues with the truck or engine, trans combo. Would have gotten the Duramax, but it had just come out and I was a little shy of what bugs and gremlins were lurking in such a new engine. I opted for the big block gas, never regreted it. After hearing about the injector horror stories of the early engines, I'm still glad I bought the 8.1. If I had to replace it today I would order me a .........IH 4400lp!! crew cab, DT-570E, 6 speed Allison!!!
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-07-27 3:04 PM (#45527 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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The reason of the Ford REBATES was posted and talked about on the FORD sites.Not being spitful but just stating the facts. was at the feed store a month or so back and a guy was going on about the low mileage 6.0 King Ranch Edition he just got used at a Ford store.It had survey paint and clear silicone sealer on every bolt,fastner,oil pan,elect.connectors from stem to stern.Then it hit me.This truck has BEEN APART and back togather a LOT.Previous owner had done all that marking items as it was going in and out of the shop.Then it was traded in.Withen a few days this double rebate was the talk of the boards to prevent the title history of these trucks being labled BUYBACK or LEMON LAWED.That one at the feed store was a prime example.The REBATES sent to previous owners was MAKE your BEST deal at or below INVOICE,high trade in dollor and get ALL rebates and then HAND THEM THIS.Coupon for $4k.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2006-07-27 3:48 PM (#45530 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?



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Houndog, I think you need to take a chill pill instead of making your own conclusions about why.

Yes Ford recognized they had problems with the early 6.0L. But their double rebates were not to get trucks off the street and by pass a buy back. The 2003-2004 trucks that were buyback canidates have pretty much ALREADY been bought back. With the per mile mileage fee that Ford charges a buy back customer, there is not a lot of incentive to push an older 2003/04 truck through the buyback process.

The rebate Ford offered was to anybody who purchased a 2003/04 6.0L truck. Regardless of whether you still owned that vehicle. Just prove you were the original purchaser of that vehicle and you get the rebate. If you own a 2003/04 and had purchased it used, No rebate.  Only the Original owners. It had nothing to do with getting problem trucks off the street.

So Ford seems to be trying to "Scratch the Itch" to buy a new truck and to provide an incentive to buyers who their market research suggested may be cosnidering buying again. It pushes a potential buyer over the edge to buy today instead of waiting for the next model engine. If I had a really bad experience with my Ford, a $2500 rebate is not going to keep me from changing brands. But it did intice me to buy another 6.0L rather than wait for a 6.4L

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Rugby3
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2006-07-27 7:01 PM (#45538 - in reply to #44916)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


Member


Posts: 11

Location: New Durham NH
Originally written by dez on 2006-07-18 10:57 AM

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I don't know if he was full of bull, and I hope that I don't have to find out, but when I asked the sales rep what would happen if I end up with a bad 6.0, he said that between the warranty and our state's lemon law, I'm 'covered'. Of course, reality is not quite that simple, eh? At any rate, I'm really curious if we're talking 1 out of 2 or 1 out of 2,000 6.0's having trouble....I pondered it all and decided that I don't want to be an experiment with a first year 6.4 so I made my offer on an '06 350 and it looks like the dealer and I are at an agreement. I got a $49,600 stickered truck for $42,400. I don't know if a more savvy buyer could have gotten it down more, but I gave it a shot and they stood firm on the $42,400 (and I'm not sure that I blame them - I got invoice plus $2K in rebates plus 1.9%/60 financing....) GAWD, I hope that in the future, I won't be joining the group of pissed off Ford owners who bought a bad 6.0!
Dez, Enjoy your new truck, I don't post much here as I don't have the horse trailer experience but do frequent all the HD truck forums and have trailer all kinds of other equipment vehicles. Your truck should be fine, it doesn't matter what brand you buy any of them can be lemons and all three have "different quality" issues. Brand loyalty and motor type (gas or diesel) arguments will go on forever. The biggest recommendation is not to chip it and or make any other motor mods and you'll be fine.
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-07-28 2:35 AM (#45556 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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Posts: 1205
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Location: Danielsville Georgia

It was $4,000 coupon.NOT $2500. Some keep stating THEY all have issues.TRUE but not 430 PERCENT more issues .The 06 6.0 has LESS issues then previious but STILL has issues.Now if they were to continue the 6.0 07 or 08 may really be a goodun.BUT its getting CHANGED just when it might be as GOOD as the other two.Why such a defence for a pig in a poke.Even some of the 6.0 owners on the Ford sites finally broke down and ADMIT it.

 

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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-07-28 7:52 AM (#45559 - in reply to #45556)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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Originally written by hounddog on 2006-07-28 2:35 AM

It was $4,000 coupon.NOT $2500. Some keep stating THEY all have issues.TRUE but not 430 PERCENT more issues .The 06 6.0 has LESS issues then previious but STILL has issues.Now if they were to continue the 6.0 07 or 08 may really be a goodun.BUT its getting CHANGED just when it might be as GOOD as the other two.Why such a defence for a pig in a poke.Even some of the 6.0 owners on the Ford sites finally broke down and ADMIT it.



Ain't Ya ever hear of the microsoft product quality maturity model ?
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barry
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2006-07-28 12:23 PM (#45575 - in reply to #45559)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?



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Originally written by Reg on 2006-07-28 7:52 AM

Ain't Ya ever hear of the microsoft product quality maturity model ?


Okay, I'll bite . . . what is the MSPQMM?

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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2006-07-28 2:26 PM (#45588 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?



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Houndog It was NOT a $4000 coupon.

They offered a standard $2500 to ANY Buyer and an Additional $2500 Rebate to any Original owner of a 2003/04 powerstroke.

I thnik I'm a little familar with this since I owned a 2003 F350 and I got the rebate announcement in the mail around the first of March and I used the additional rebate to Purchase my 2006 truck. Along with a X-Plan and Commerical Upfitter rebate. I got $6000 in rebates off the X-plan pricing. Where I messed up was that I forgot to use the coupon that Ford sends out with their Superduty brouchures. Those coupons are worth $250-$500-$750 depending on which coupon gets stuffed in your brouchure.

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2006-07-28 4:31 PM (#45606 - in reply to #44848)
Subject: RE: Another Ford question - 6.0 or wait for the 6.4?


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Well then you need to correct the other Ford owners that posted about their coupons  on the Ford sites and tell them it WAS NOT to keep those trucks from being LABLED BUYBACK OR LEMON LAWED.
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