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explanation of brake controllers please....

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Eventer04
Reg. May 2006
Posted 2006-05-11 9:06 AM (#41597)
Subject: explanation of brake controllers please....


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Alright, so i've been riding for close to 10 years, well i just bought my new horse and now its show season. My parents have a '04 (it may be an '05...cant totally remember) chevy suburban that has the tow package put on it. it doesnt have a brake controller, the trailer has electric brakes on it (i borrow a trailer from one of my two friends, coincidentally they have the same trailers) anyway, then i heard that my truck needs to have a brake controller. i understand what the brake controller DOES, but my question is, if im going to be trailerign only 4 or 5 times this summer and then im selling my horse and off to college, is it worth getting a brake controller put in? can i trailer without it? or if i cant trailer without it but its expensive, should i just borrow friends' trucks that have brake controllers installed in them? (this is clearly a pain since most people are more hesitant to lend there truck than their trailer)all information would be helpful since im new to trailering....btw im not the one doing the actual trucking, i co own my horse and my friend is from holland and been trucking for years. unfortunately she has never heard of brake controllers either since i guess they dont have them in holland. so we would love input.thxeventer04
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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-05-11 9:20 AM (#41598 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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You didn't mention how big the trailer is so I will assume its a 2 horse bumper pull (the Suburban thing tells me it's a bumper pull) I say you can tow it safely without the controller, allow for more braking room (don't tailgate) get a feel for how fast you can stop if you have to and then drive accordingly. The controller would let you stop faster, but that wouldn't be very nice to your horse.
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Cloud9
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2006-05-11 9:27 AM (#41600 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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SOme trailer brakes work on surge. They kick in when the tow vehicle brakes start to slow the rig. That may be what you have and will work w/o a controller.
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-05-11 10:35 AM (#41603 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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Welcome to the forum.

As to your towing "only a couple times" without trailer brakes... a fatal crash only happens once to the unfortunate soul.  You are taking a risk with your life and everyone's around you by towing without a brake controller.

Since you won't have a brake controller you won't have working trailer brakes.   Most states require horse trailers to have "working" brakes"  (I said horse trailers since the actual requirement varies by weight.  Horse trailers will weigh several thousand pounds)

I hope you're several states away from me when you're on the road without trailer brakes.

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hav2ride
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-05-11 1:18 PM (#41612 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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You need a brake controller. I've towed a 2H with a Suburban and you need a brake controller! You don't need to get the most expensive type but I would get an inertia type over a time activated type. Go to www.brakecontroller.com and read up on them and get the prices. Then have a friend install it for free (or a cold beer!).
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Ike
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2006-05-11 2:25 PM (#41613 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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Yep, you need a brake controller. The most basic one will work fine.  If your Parents Chevy is an 04 or 5 and has the "tow" pkg already, it should have the necessary wires already there and the controller will simply plug in. The details should be in the owner manual of the truck.

Yes you can pull that trailer without brakes but its safer to have them and since you have access to such a nice new vehicle with a tow package already installed, its very simple to be safe and connect the controller. As already stated, that one accident can happen in a split second.



Edited by Ike 2006-05-12 4:43 PM
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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-05-11 4:46 PM (#41616 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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Well let's stir this up a little more and make all you controllers think! 2 horse bumper pull Steel weighs 1480 lbs according to a mfg. on this site. Lets say she has a big ole fat halter horse, 1250 lbs. Total weight 2,730 lbs. you all seem to think that requires trailer brakes. If so I need to stay away from all boats in the 18-21 ft. range (all of them weigh more!!) on the road being pulled by much less vehicles than a Suburban. 90% of boat trailers have no brakes Mine included. My 24 foot pontoon with a 90 hp motor weighs much more than her setup does.

Edited by HWBar 2006-05-11 4:47 PM
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kentuckydiesel
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2006-05-11 9:02 PM (#41623 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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A basic brake controller is like $20-$30.  That's rediculous to even question weather to get one or not.

 

-Phillip

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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-05-12 5:24 AM (#41627 - in reply to #41623)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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Originally written by kentuckydiesel on 2006-05-11 9:02 PM

A basic brake controller is like $20-$30.  That's rediculous to even question weather to get one or not.

 

-Phillip

The questions was can she trailer without it? Not how much does one cost.

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hav2ride
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-05-12 7:42 AM (#41633 - in reply to #41616)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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"If so I need to stay away from all boats in the 18-21 ft. range (all of them weigh more!!) on the road being pulled by much less vehicles than a Suburban. 90% of boat trailers have no brakes Mine included. My 24 foot pontoon with a 90 hp motor weighs much more than her setup does."And that makes not having trailer brakes an intelligent, safe, LEGAL decision?? Don't drive in my state.
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Mr. Trailer
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-05-12 8:34 AM (#41634 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....




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Location: Tuttle, OK

HWBar, you often have some good info to add here, but I disagree with you 100% It appears to me that your just arguing for the sake of arguing, which is your right of course…

 

Can you pull a trailer with a horse in it without brakes, of course you can.

 

Can you punch Mike Tyson in the mouth, why yes, yes you can.

 

Is either in your best interest, probably not….

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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-05-12 12:03 PM (#41637 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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I was looking for a good argument, I thought I had a good comparison with the boat trailers. I really do have one from the factory with no brakes, It weighs more than what she is talking about. Everyone (I included) thinks it would be best to pull with the brakes. I'm trying to get people to think outside the box, alot of trailers towed everyday without brakes weigh more than a 2 horse bumper pull with 1 horse in it. Sorry if I pissed anyone off, and watch out for that utility trailer loaded down with mulch.

Edited by HWBar 2006-05-12 12:05 PM
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barry
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2006-05-12 2:27 PM (#41639 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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I see people every day with a old 2 horse trailer and a backyard horse at local fun youth shows with no brakes, no floors, and walls that look like a strong head wind could take everything above the floor off. 1) I always use trailer brakes. 2) That said this person can make a few local shows just fine. Is it the smartest thing - no, there is some gamble, but then I sometimes drive to work when road conditions are a bit icy (brakes don't help), I sometimes speed and take corners faster than the highway signs state, etc. I would much rather share the road with this person, who seems to be aware of their limitations, that someone who buys 4 horses and a trailer to match and drives like they been doing it all their life. Would I drive through St. Louis without brakes NO. Would I drive state highway roads around local areas given the facts that she is selling out. Go for it!

Edited by barry 2006-05-12 2:29 PM
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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-05-12 2:48 PM (#41640 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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Thanks Barry, I was begining to worry about who was on this site. I have a cousin shows AQHA every weekend, 4 horse slant, 12 ft. slideout on 18 ft. shortwall, pulls with a FL60 Freightliner, Thinks he is king of the road, trailer looks like my dogs have been living in it, fenders tore off of it. Bumper bent in on the Freightliner. I have a feeling these folks would rather travel the roads with him because he bought everything money could by. Rather than with someone whom is fully aware of her situation pulling 2,500 lbs down the road. Watch out for that wagon full of hay (120 bales at 50 lbs.=6,000lbs) no brakes and wagon steering!

Edited by HWBar 2006-05-12 2:53 PM
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hav2ride
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-05-12 3:40 PM (#41641 - in reply to #41637)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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"I was looking for a good argument," Safety isn't an issue that should be argued for sport.
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Flush
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2006-05-12 6:06 PM (#41646 - in reply to #41641)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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Originally written by hav2ride on 2006-05-12 3:40 PM

"I was looking for a good argument," Safety isn't an issue that should be argued for sport.

I didn't take it as sport. It is an excellent point. Why is it safe with a boat and not horses? What if it was a 1,000 pound single place trailer and a 700 pound Icelandic.? In HWBar's example, a trailer under 3,000 pounds without brakes WOULD BE legal in most states. I agree the most cautious approach would be to have a brake controller, however that does not mean it is the only SAFE choice. Without knowing the weight of the trailer, ratings of vehicle/trailer etc..., and most importantly how the rig is driven it is impossible to say what is safe. The best we can do is determine what is legal, and given the lack of details we can't even do that in this case.

Again I agree going with a brake controller is the most cautious approach, and what I would recommend for the highest safety margin, but it often amazes me how close minded horsey-trailering people can be.

If it ain't a gooseneck behind a diesel its usually considered unsafe on the horsey forums.   The true irony is a big percentage of those diesel/gooseneck folks exceed their GVWR, breaking a law put in place for safety reasons!

Be safe!

 

 

 

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hav2ride
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-05-12 7:42 PM (#41648 - in reply to #41646)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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"In HWBar's example, a trailer under 3,000 pounds without brakes WOULD BE legal in most states. I agree the most cautious approach would be to have a brake controller, however that does not mean it is the only SAFE choice."After hauling ALL types and sizes of trailers, horse and non-horse, for over 25 years, unless you are towing a weight that is dramatically less than the tow vehicle, you could be asking for trouble. HWbar used a ridiculously light trailer to try and make his point. You yourself said that using a brake controller is the most cautious approach for the highest safety margin. Brake controllers are not that expensive in relationship to the degree of safety they provide. Wouldn't it be more responsible to teach newbies to be cautious rather than take chances?
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Flush
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2006-05-12 11:14 PM (#41653 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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Yes, of course I think teaching caution is a good thing. I think teaching people to understand the laws, ratings, capabilities, i.e. factual stuff is the best way to determine how cautious you are being. I think HWBar's post was intended to due just that. Get people (newbies included) to think about what does my trailer weigh? What do my state laws and vehicle require for trailer brakes? Maybe I should stop towing my 4,000# boat with no trailer brakes?

On that note: Eventer, One other thing you need to be aware of is you tongue weight. Most hitches are only rated to 500lbs of tongue weight unless you have a Weight Distribution Hitch. If you have a heavy trailer, and no Weight Distribtuion Hitch you may exceed your ratings and not have a safe setup. Regardless if your trailer is "heavy" or not, you should verify the hitch rating is sufficient.

I'm not trying to scare Eventer, but it is serious business and the more questions you know the answers to the better off you are. I think everyone can learn by asking questions like this.

I just don't buy into taking the blind "cautious" approach. Unless you know more about the setup, like how much it weighs and if the trailer actually uses surge brakes, how can you say adding a controller is safer? Yes, most likely a controller is needed but you need more info to say that for sure.  

 Personally I would feel much safer driving in front a fully prepared driver in a 1/2ton pickup pulling a horse trailer who knows exactly what his limits are (and stays below them) than some fool driving a one-ton diesel with a big ol' trailer who hasn't a clue how overloaded they are and how to properly prepare their rig. Of course the diesel driver thinks they are being cautious, since their buddies told them you need a one-ton to be safe!

Really don't want to argue, but I think HWbar made a thought provoking post, and to me it was not encouraging risks, it was the opposite it was encouraging education.

-Flush



Edited by Flush 2006-05-12 11:23 PM
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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-05-13 5:18 AM (#41654 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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Thanks Flush for getting my point.

"unless you are towing a weight that is dramatically less than the tow vehicle, you could be asking for trouble. HWbar used a ridiculously light trailer to try and make his point"

Hav2ride, the trailer I used for discussion is most likely what she is going to tow. The Suburban should weigh somewhere around 6000lbs. Trailer and a single horse is under 3000lbs. What do you consider "dramatically less".

 

Hey, Watch out for that mowing crew, 3 zero turns, 2 push mowers, weedeaters and fuel. Weighs more than what we are talking about. It's a utility trailer with no brakes.



Edited by HWBar 2006-05-13 5:22 AM
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hav2ride
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-05-13 6:05 AM (#41655 - in reply to #41654)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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I think some of you should read this. Pay attention to the first item. http://www.equispirit.com/info/faq.htm#faq1

Edited by hav2ride 2006-05-13 6:06 AM
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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-05-13 7:16 AM (#41656 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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I read it, it CLEARLY states 3000lbs. As I said in my earlier response I contacted an advertiser on this site, they told me that the 2 horse bumper pull they manufacture weighs 1480 lbs. dry. It is a very popular trailer. If eventor is showing a big ole fat halter horse lets say 1400lbs. thats 2880lbs. legal in every state. I have never said I recommend it, I said it can be, and is being done every day(see all my examples). All I am trying to point out is that we are so reactive in saying this has to have that and so on. Her example was 1 horse, we have to assume bumper pull with the Suburban, I assume standard little two horse, we have all pulled at one time in our life. She can pull it, and be legal in every state. Hopefully I got you to think, Hopefully I haven't made anyone mad.
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xyzer
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2006-05-13 10:52 AM (#41660 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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Hmmm....Use em if you got em!...Not that you can't do it without but you may get into a insurance issue with your parents insurance co. and for sure someone elses trailer if you have a problem. If the trailer had no brakes at all it would be different but if It has brakes and you arn't going to hook them up thats a little over the line. We carry a spare tire don't we....just in case....we don't have to but we all do! If we need it we got it......$100.00 will get you a upper end controller..cheap insurance! If you really have to make a panic stop you won't believe how hard 3000# will keep it from happening. You asked a very valid question witch tells me you have some concerns I can't find fault with any of the previous responses. But for a 100 bucks....I would go for it!

Edited by xyzer 2006-05-13 11:09 AM
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Cloud9
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2006-05-13 11:34 AM (#41663 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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HWBar - You done good! The main benefit of this and other forums is to share the group member's thinking and experience. I believe that you made us all think. That'll make us all better haulers.

Thanks.
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hav2ride
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2006-05-13 11:39 AM (#41664 - in reply to #41656)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....


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I have owned simple 2 steel 2H BPs, 1 aluminum/steel BP, and currently a 2H all aluminum BP. ALL of my BPs have been well over your 1480 dry weight. The all aluminum trailer is over 3k empty. Mr. Trailer states that you are out of line with your advice this time. The last paragraph of that section in the site I provided states that no one should ever tow horses without the trailer brakes hooked up. What does it take to get you to realize that, when dealing with major safety issues, it is much more responsible to be cautious than macho.
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HWBar
Reg. Nov 2005
Posted 2006-05-13 3:05 PM (#41667 - in reply to #41597)
Subject: RE: explanation of brake controllers please....



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Macho is the last thing I am trying to be, some folks get it, some don't.

Edited by HWBar 2006-05-13 3:10 PM
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