Posted 2006-02-14 3:35 PM (#37217) Subject: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Regular
Posts: 87 Location: Lavaca, Alabama
I am looking to buy a 2 horse slant load gooseneck. I am really impressed with the Sundowners but I realize that they are not completely aluminum. I'm not sure that I understand where the differences are when comparing all aluminum to aluminum over a steel frame. Since this trailer will be kept outside, won't the aluminum cover the steel frame of the Sundowner and therefore, minimize rust? It doesn't seem that there is a big weight difference between the two makeups in a 2 horse gooseneck, so I'm just wondering what the main differences are. Could someone clue me in?
Posted 2006-02-14 3:42 PM (#37219 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Elite Veteran
Posts: 648 Location: Coconut Creek, FL
You will get a variety of opinions, but I was told by a very knowledgable trailer manufacturer that when you place aluminum and steel together, electrolysis starts immediatley and it will rust. I have seen many alum skin trailers and they were rust buckets. Course I live in South Fla which is very tough on anything made out of steel.
Sundowner does seem to do a better job with these trailers, however I have a good friend with an '03 model that has her trailer at the dealer now for repairs due to rust..... again this is in Fla. I didn't notice where you live. But if you live where there is salt put down, I would think you might have the same problem or if there is high humidity...
Posted 2006-02-14 4:48 PM (#37228 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Expert
Posts: 1723 Location: michigan
I had a Trails West that was steel framed/aluminum skinned. I did not see any rust developing as a result of aluminum touching the steel but I did see rust where the trailer was made of steel. Of course, I knew this would happen-anything made of steel will rust. Its just what happens. I wanted a all aluminum after having the TW for two years. Pleased with the Exiss.........no rust. Yes I know Aluminum has its problems but nothing like dealing with rust....
Posted 2006-02-14 6:38 PM (#37237 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 565 Location: Michigan
I've owned alum/steel combo type trailers in the past and own an all alumy now and wouldn't go back. The alum/steel trailer I owned developed rust around the back doors, dividers, and dressing room door in just a matter of a year of use. Resale wasn't the best either.
Posted 2006-02-14 8:53 PM (#37249 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Veteran
Posts: 246 Location: Northern IN.
Sundowner now completely coats all the steel componets of their trlrs. with Suncoat, which is basicaly like a spray-on bedliner stuff. Very durable and waterproof, so no rust. Even the tounge of the trailer. (the goose-neck). We have one that is that way right now. It's fine and not even a hint of rust.--On the other hand-- we also have all aluminum trlrs. and they are absolutley awsome too. I personally prefere the all aluminum, and that is what I pull every day, BUT if the steel/aluminum fits your needs, and the price is right...I wouldn't be a bit afraid of pickin' it up. Just MHO!
Posted 2006-02-15 6:06 AM (#37259 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Expert
Posts: 2689
Please search for other threads on this topic, it is raised at least once a quarter and has been "discussed" (diss'd and cussed) ad nauseum.
From what I have seen in the repair shop the various materials and methods allegedly used to isolate the steel from the aluminum either aren't applied properly or aren't used to the extent they should be - either way, there is almost always corrosion of both metals inside the cavities. I suspect that this is partly because it is impossible to completely seal the wall cavities, so moisture gets in there and once in there doesn't escape.
Posted 2006-02-15 6:21 AM (#37261 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Expert
Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
I think one thing that gets overlooked alot is the corrosion on the aluminum. People see the rust on the parts that are steel, The white chalkey stuff that you see on the aluminum when you remove the steel, that is the equivilent to rust on steel. I hope I am not making this so simple that it sounds elementary. I think the proper term is Intergrannular(sp?) Corrosion.
Posted 2006-02-15 7:59 AM (#37268 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Veteran
Posts: 246 Location: Northern IN.
O.K., I'll try to keep it on #2 size font. It just looks so big when I'm typing. Oh well, anything for the fans! lol. Ten-Rodger (sorry, a little trucker lingo there)
Posted 2006-02-15 9:53 AM (#37279 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Member
Posts: 33 Location: Ashland, Ohio
A lot of the rust problems are a result of how the trailers are stored / maintained. We just sold our all steel '92 Sundowner, that was structurally as sound as the day it was born. We always cleaned it after we used it, and always parked it either on a dry gravel lot, or in the barn for the winter. A lot of people stick them in the backyard, and forget about them for months at a time. This causes major undercarriage and lower panel rust problems. Just my 02 cents worth.
Posted 2006-02-16 8:46 PM (#37371 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 362 Location: Allegan, Michigan
For those of us who battle the elements year round (Michigan) aluminum is the way to go. I have gone through so many steel trailers I finally decided to spend more and get an all aluminum trailer. For me financially it was a decision I had to base on which type of trailer am I going to keep for the long haul? An all aluminum! So I saved up my pennies, decided not to show this year, and went ahead and scored me a sweet Featherlite 3 hs slant!
Posted 2006-02-17 7:35 AM (#37379 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 565 Location: Michigan
"So I saved up my pennies, decided not to show this year, and went ahead and scored me a sweet Featherlite 3 hs slant!"
I can't imagine buying a trailer and not using it for its intended purposes but kudos to you for taking a year off from showing and sitting by the rail. I'm sure you will miss it! Congrats on your trailer, exciting huh?
Posted 2006-02-17 1:34 PM (#37395 - in reply to #37324) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Regular
Posts: 61 Location: Indiana
"Indoor storage is always better for steel trailers. However, that's not always possible. That's why I like aluminum better"
Now that is not always true. If you think about it, lets say that the average all aluminum gooseneck is about $5k to $8k more than the equivalent steel frame aluminum skinned trailer. So here is how I figure it. If you take the money that you saved and build a pole barn for your trailer, it can now 1. sit inside and stay out of the weather and 2. You have just increased your property value at the same time. So to me it just seems like a win win situation.
Posted 2006-02-17 3:59 PM (#37398 - in reply to #37395) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Expert
Posts: 1719 Location: PA
"If you take the money that you saved and build a pole barn for your trailer, it can now 1. sit inside and stay out of the weather and 2. You have just increased your property value at the same time. So to me it just seems like a win win situation."I don't know who will build a pole barn for 5-8k!! Well, maybe just a cover. But where I live you have to also pay to level out a flat area to put it on. You also have to have the right situation or you could end up decreasing your farm's value. Plus, unless you pull your trailer in perfect weather, you still can end up with rust. Plus, if you live in coastal areas, the chances of rust are even greater. I've had steel, steel/aluminum, and aluminum. I'll take a good aluminum any day of the week!
Posted 2006-02-17 5:48 PM (#37404 - in reply to #37379) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 362 Location: Allegan, Michigan
"I can't imagine buying a trailer and not using it for its intended purposes but kudos to you for taking a year off from showing and sitting by the rail. I'm sure you will miss it! Congrats on your trailer, exciting huh?"
Instead of showing I am taking time off to enjoy the trailer camping. It is a lot less expensive! I will be camping close to home and making a trip to CCTR for the first time. I will also be taking my TB mare to the track. I did the budget and I am saving quite a bit by not compaigning my AQHA mare this year. I was told I had a choice to give up my show allowance or to go with a cheaper trailer...I gladly decided to give up my showing this year to get the trailer of my dreams. It will be paid in full and I won't have to owe on it!! No loan for me! It paid to save up for it. I think my mare will appreciate trail riding vs showing, and will appreciate her air conditioned ride too!
Posted 2006-02-20 1:30 PM (#37551 - in reply to #37219) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
Originally written by Dunoir on 2006-02-14 4:42 PM
You will get a variety of opinions, but I was told by a very knowledgable trailer manufacturer that when you place aluminum and steel together, electrolysis starts immediatley and it will rust. I have seen many alum skin trailers and they were rust buckets. Course I live in South Fla which is very tough on anything made out of steel.
Sundowner does seem to do a better job with these trailers, however I have a good friend with an '03 model that has her trailer at the dealer now for repairs due to rust..... again this is in Fla. I didn't notice where you live. But if you live where there is salt put down, I would think you might have the same problem or if there is high humidity...
You and your reputable trailer manufacturer are slightly misinformed I'm afraid. No offense, just fact. It's galvanic corrosion, not electolysis that occurs, and for it to occur you have to have water/activator between the steel and aluminum. Thats why man created gromets. If you couldn't put steel and aluminum together safely you wouldn't see aluminum mounting brackets holding you steel alternator, power steering pump and any number of other scenarios we could go on about for hours. It's a sales tool. All metals corrode if not properly cared for, and in certain areas, such as yours it is far worse, but it is not a given that it will happen.
Posted 2006-02-20 7:51 PM (#37574 - in reply to #37551) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by efaubert1 on 2006-02-20 2:30 PM
Originally written by Dunoir on 2006-02-14 4:42 PM
You will get a variety of opinions, but I was told by a very knowledgable trailer manufacturer that when you place aluminum and steel together, electrolysis starts immediatley and it will rust. I have seen many alum skin trailers and they were rust buckets. Course I live in South Fla which is very tough on anything made out of steel.
Sundowner does seem to do a better job with these trailers, however I have a good friend with an '03 model that has her trailer at the dealer now for repairs due to rust..... again this is in Fla. I didn't notice where you live. But if you live where there is salt put down, I would think you might have the same problem or if there is high humidity...
You and your reputable trailer manufacturer are slightly misinformed I'm afraid. No offense, just fact. It's galvanic corrosion, not electolysis that occurs, and for it to occur you have to have water/activator between the steel and aluminum. Thats why man created gromets. If you couldn't put steel and aluminum together safely you wouldn't see aluminum mounting brackets holding you steel alternator, power steering pump and any number of other scenarios we could go on about for hours. It's a sales tool. All metals corrode if not properly cared for, and in certain areas, such as yours it is far worse, but it is not a given that it will happen.
Yes, the electro potential is caused by the metals' differences, current flows, etc.
There is some significant difference between hefty castings and 0.050 - 0.062 inch sheet.
30 thou' off an alternator or power steering pump mount is "surface", you can afford it.
On sheet metal 30 thou' is half way through.
Posted 2006-02-20 8:16 PM (#37580 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
Nicely said Reg, thats why they use gromets on sheet and not on beefy housings. And if you check a galvanic chart aluminum and iron aren't that far apart so there is less chance of it, meaning the reaction is less likely. Now if they were using stianless for a frame vs iron the possibility of reaction would be far greater.
Posted 2006-02-20 10:50 PM (#37592 - in reply to #37580) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Expert
Posts: 2689
Originally written by efaubert1 on 2006-02-20 9:16 PM
Nicely said Reg, thats why they use gromets on sheet and not on beefy housings. And if you check a galvanic chart aluminum and iron aren't that far apart so there is less chance of it, meaning the reaction is less likely. Now if they were using stianless for a frame vs iron the possibility of reaction would be far greater.
About all I've seen in the repair shop has been rivets holding the aluminum sheet to the steel posts - no grommets. This is probably the weak point in the whole galvanic isolation strategy, the hole drilled through the aluminum sheet and into the steel post isn't sealed or painted, the aluminum rivet that joins them is bare metal.
See why they pop out on {the brand that we can't bash here} ?
They ARE pop (out) rivets (-:
re: galvanic chart; we're dealing with steels (probably mild) and alumin alloys, not ferric iron and elemental alumin (-:
Posted 2006-02-21 5:19 AM (#37597 - in reply to #37217) Subject: RE: All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
Elite Veteran
Posts: 634 Location: Tipton, IN
Reg, I agree with you, that brand we can not bash here does that, as do many others. I often wonder if they don't understand the laws of the materials they build with. That being said, the galvanic corrosion factor has less to do with trailers rusting than general care for your equipment. I have an aluminum skinned steel framed that is 7 years old with galvaneal steel. The only rust is really on the main frame underneathe, and there is no aluminum there. Just roadware and salt from winter. And its surface rust that if I'm lucky i'll get to sand blast off and primer this spring.
All Aluminum vs. Aluminum over Steel
