Posted 2006-01-18 8:15 PM (#35694) Subject: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
Regular
Posts: 57
I am planning on putting air bags on my 03 F-250 power stroke and was wondering how air bags would work for the rear axles of my 30' gooseneck horse trailer. I get a lot of bouce at the gooseneck over bumps which makes the whole trailer bounce. Even when I am going very slow. I am hoping air bags on the truck will help. Anyone have air bags on the horse trailer for a better ride ??? Thanks for any info...
Posted 2006-01-18 8:25 PM (#35696 - in reply to #35694) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
Member
Posts: 8
Location: Central Point, OR
I installed air bags on my 2002 F350 dually and it made all the difference in the world! I can also adjust them to level the load (Arctic Fox 10'8" camper and a 4-horse Sundowner trailer). I have a friend with a LQ Sliverlite and he installed them on his 2003 F350 dually, but they are installed differently for a gooseneck, so be sure the dealer knows what you are pulling. I have not heard of them on the horse trailer.
Posted 2006-01-19 8:04 AM (#35707 - in reply to #35694) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 379 Location: Columbia, TN
I had them on my last truck which was a F-350 dually 4x4 air bags that is and they woorked great. Installed them my self which was a pretty good job I think at the time the dealer wanted $116 to put them on and next time I would pay them that. At the time I was pulling a Sundowner that was 37 ft. on the box and it really leveled me up and made it feel like the tail was no longer wagging the dog. There is another product out that is out but I can't remember the name. Seems like it was a German name that is a nylon bushing that will also do the trick. I am not much of a fan of adding springs. I'm sure someone will come up with the correct name. Seems like it was Tolheim
Posted 2006-01-19 9:14 AM (#35713 - in reply to #35694) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by highgatefarm on 2006-01-18 8:15 PM
I am planning on putting air bags on my 03 F-250 power stroke and was wondering how air bags would work for the rear axles of my 30' gooseneck horse trailer. I get a lot of bouce at the gooseneck over bumps which makes the whole trailer bounce. Even when I am going very slow. I am hoping air bags on the truck will help. Anyone have air bags on the horse trailer for a better ride ??? Thanks for any info...
If your truck wasn't so (relatively) new I'd suggest replacing and/or upgrading the rear shocks - it should NOT bounce around.
After MUCH deliberation and having resisted it on THIS forum for a long time... I'm about to add air bags to my '03 Chevvy truck. $240 from the suspensionconnection "free"(included) shipping. I think I'm doing it more to soften the ride of the truck when empty.
In looking around under my 4-star I'd guess the air ride option is primarily a set of Firestone airbags. With a little research and some knuckle skin you could almost certainly set up an existing trailer with "supplementary" air ride. I plan to squirm around under there again soon and get the part numbers off the bags, I would LIKE to carry a spare around with me for the longer trips.
I'd research RV/travel trailer forums for air ride conversion projects.
Posted 2006-01-19 2:05 PM (#35723 - in reply to #35694) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
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Posts: 9
Location: Ontario
Originally written by highgatefarm on 2006-01-18 9:15 PM
I am planning on putting air bags on my 03 F-250 power stroke and was wondering how air bags would work for the rear axles of my 30' gooseneck horse trailer. I get a lot of bouce at the gooseneck over bumps which makes the whole trailer bounce. Even when I am going very slow. I am hoping air bags on the truck will help. Anyone have air bags on the horse trailer for a better ride ??? Thanks for any info...
Where is your hitch located as far as the axles are concerned? If you are on or behind the axle that would be part of the reason you are finding the trailer bounces.
Posted 2006-01-19 4:12 PM (#35731 - in reply to #35724) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by hav2ride on 2006-01-19 2:24 PM
I think it is bouncing because the tongue weight is too much for the truck.
REALLY ?
on an F-250 ?
If the truck has been heavily used or has a lot of miles the rear shocks could be due for replacement.
I'm thinking that more "spring" isn't a good approach, but more dampening might be.
Air bags ARE more "spring", I'm wondering if things would become even more lively with them...
Posted 2006-01-19 6:45 PM (#35739 - in reply to #35731) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
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Posts: 1719 Location: PA
The reason I said that, Reg, is that my current trailer is a 29' box LQ and I had that problem when I first got it. The tongue weight was so heavy that it almost sat on the axels (and this was a 4x4!). The super springs fixed the bounce but I did upgrade to a 450 because the trailer was so heavy. Different manufacturers make trailers differently (as you already know) and the weights can be different for the same size trailer. The same goes for conversion companies. The trailer in question could just be God awful heavy!
Posted 2006-01-20 9:29 AM (#35761 - in reply to #35739) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by hav2ride on 2006-01-19 6:45 PM
The reason I said that, Reg, is that my current trailer is a 29' box LQ and I had that problem when I first got it. The tongue weight was so heavy that it almost sat on the axels (and this was a 4x4!). The super springs fixed the bounce but I did upgrade to a 450 because the trailer was so heavy. Different manufacturers make trailers differently (as you already know) and the weights can be different for the same size trailer. The same goes for conversion companies. The trailer in question could just be God awful heavy!
It makes sense that a HEAVY load gets the springs down to where they're stiffer - assuming a progressive spring rate. So yes, I guess bounciness comes with heftier loads. I'm thinking that EITHER getting down onto your overload springs and/or adding something like Helwigs to get back up again probably does increase bounciness - if you don't stiffen up the shocks to absorb the stiffer spring rates. Just speculatin' - havn't thought it through enough. I'll report back on my air bag experiment when I get back from my "tour" (-:
Posted 2006-01-20 9:58 PM (#35776 - in reply to #35761) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
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Posts: 71 Location: Franklin, TN
As far as a new tranny, no one in the country builds a better transmission than Brian's Truck Shop in Lead Hill, AR. You will think you have a new truck and Brian stands behind his transmissions, unlike the piece of junk that Ford puts in them from the factory.
Posted 2006-01-21 4:49 AM (#35780 - in reply to #35694) Subject: RE Air bags etc.
Veteran
Posts: 212 Location: novinger, mo
What about adding Timbrins (sp.?) to reduce bounce? We are thinking of doing that because there seems to be a lot of bounce on certain roads. We have a Dodge Quad Cab 2500 automatic 4 x 4 with diesel engine. We pull 3h with 10' LQ. We are probably close to or at our weight limit.
Posted 2006-01-24 12:21 PM (#35929 - in reply to #35928) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by kle12 on 2006-01-24 11:24 AM
I too am considering air bags for my truck.
Is the main difference between the Timbren Springs and air bags, convenience/maintenance issues considering both provide the same result?
I doubt that they provide the same result.
Timbrens probably do NOTHING until you load the truck down onto them.
Air springs (reputedly) soften the ride at any load and are adjustable.
Entry price for air springs is about $240 with DIY installation, approx double that if you aren't satisfied with filling them up at a gas station and want an on board compressor. The air springs without a compressor system are only a little more work to install than Timbrens. Compressor, wiring, switches, etc., add to the complexity and I'm putting that off for the time being. Maybe when spring gets here I'll be more inclined to do elective under truck projects.
I'm starting with the basic kit, at some point I may use the trailer's air system, I'll see how it goes.
So far "It ain't going well".
The kit arrived yesterday, I tried installing it this morning and ran into trouble. Suspensionconnection referred me to Firestone tech support, who told me "right quick" that I have the wrong kit. NOTE: a GMC/Chev 3500 DRW 4WD truck is NOT the same underneath as a GMC/Chev 3500 DRW 4WD Chassis/Cab.
DANG !
I knew I'd bought more than the mere pick_it_up 1-ton sans tin box(-:
More axle, more frame, more BEUF ! - and its kinda obvious when you offer up the parts that they're for a lesser truck.
For posterity I'll record it here; pick_ups take 2250 kit, c/cabs take 2249 kit.
Suspensionconnection was VERY GOOD about the return, it really seems to be a no-hassle returns policy. Hopefully I'll have them on for the cross country trip next week (-:
They used to do air ride for 4-Star trailers.
I know, coz mine is (-:
They've been unresponsive to my requests for info/help.
They seem to have gone the "Big an' Goofy" route.
Posted 2006-02-20 8:31 AM (#37526 - in reply to #35694) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
Expert
Posts: 2689
Here's a mini update on my air bag project.
SUMMARY:
Yeah, they work.
I think they take the harshness off by lifting the rear of the truck to the softer part of the truck's steel spring rate.
I'd guess the horses get some benefit.
My headlights are now LOW when on high beam, so maybe 70 psi was too much, further experiment required. I guess the front of the truck goes down a bit with the trailer on, even though the coupler is less than 6 inches ahead of the rear axle. There was no noticeable heating of trailer's rear tires due to the height difference of the coupler.
=======================================================================
Details:
I had ordered them from the suspensionconnection for a GM/Chev 2500/3500 2 or 4WD pick-up truck.
Basically, the kit didn't fit;
First a few words about the "kit".
It consists of two air bags and a couple of thick steel plates that are punched through with several small square holes to take carriage bolts.
By turning the plates around and using different holes the same kit can (almost) fit a number of slightly different vehicles (model, model year variations, etc.).
Of all the unfortunate possibilities, the kit for the pick-up truck doesn't fit the "almost same truck" chassis/cab of the same year. I had hoped to have these on and set-up before my little across the country jaunt started on Feb 1st., but that was the day that the replacement kit arrived.
OK, so it bolted up OK, not perfect on the passenger side, but OK.
The top bracket goes to the holes left by removing the bottoming out "jounce" bumper, the bottom is secured to the axle with the carriage bolts and plates described above, the air line gets routed to a point that is convenient to get an air hose to - you drill a couple of 5/16 holes for those and just bolt the schrader valves through. The instructions suggest each side of the license plate.
I had to move 3 horses about 150 miles on friday 17th., so that was the first test, 150 miles empty and 150 miles loaded across major routes but very little highay. With the 4 horse head to head trailer (empty) on and 70 psi in the bags the truck looked about as level as when the trailer is not on. The most noticeable improvement was on poorly maintained secondary roads, service roads and train crossings. The short stretch of highway showed little improvement, but that is smoothe highway so I didn't expect it to get much better.
Right now I'm satisfied, I think if I had got them in time for the coast to coast trip I would have been less fatigued. There are parts of I-40, I-81 and I-78 that are just so broken up that...
Ahh, material for a rant (-:
I don't know if I'll pick that (free) compressor that I have been offered off the offeree's truck. I havn't unhooked the trailer yet and I suspect that I can save some cranking by taking some load on the jack and then dumping air to lower the truck. I guess that is what I'll want to do anyway, since if I'm taking the trailer off I'll want the air bags almost empty. What the hassle factor will be to hook up, adjust air bags, etc., remains to be seen.
Posted 2006-02-20 11:28 AM (#37543 - in reply to #35694) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
Member
Posts: 25 Location: Ohio
My family & friends have had a lot of different experiences with air ride over the years.
My brother had an air spring system on his dually, more headaches than anything. The compressor ran like non stop and could never seem to keep the system up with enough air, wherever he got it said the rodes he traveled were way to rough. LOL
My parents, brother, and a number of friends have had trailers with air rides on them. My parents love their old 4-star that has STI air rides on it, there aren't any air springs though on this one, it has something that looks like a brake chamber on a 18 wheeler, it sure does ride nice though. Much better than our friends Sundowner that has a STI air bag axles on it. My brother had a Jamco he sold last year, it had the Dexter axle air ride. It broke one axle into while he had it, they covered everything though, but it sure was scarey having that happen.
Posted 2006-03-05 6:47 AM (#38275 - in reply to #35694) Subject: RE: Air bags?
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Posts: 212 Location: novinger, mo
Just an update...I had Timbrens put on the truck and it decreased the bounce by about 80% or more. I feel they were a great and inexpensive solution. It has not changed the ride of the unloaded truck, just the bounce when hooked to the trailer.
Posted 2006-03-05 10:08 AM (#38278 - in reply to #35694) Subject: RE: Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
Regular
Posts: 57
Hey j&j, is there a good site for what you are talking about ? I have appointment end of the month to put airbags and compresser on. I want the best solution. Thanks, T
They are kind of like a big rubber stopper to keep the truck springs from bottoming out over bumps. without a load on the truck you will notice no difference in the ride.
They are kind of like a big rubber stopper to keep the truck springs from bottoming out over bumps. without a load on the truck you will notice no difference in the ride.
j&j
This is exactly the problem with Timbrens - they do NOTHING for the unloaded truck. It is the harshness when empty that I wanted to solve - and did with air bags.
I'm about to move to the next stage, basically I've done the evaluation using a stand alone compressor in the driveway, it works well enough and the biggest reason for adding an on-board compressor is that I can get one for "free" - I just have to do the labor to pick it off a truck that will soon be sold.
Posted 2006-03-06 8:04 AM (#38318 - in reply to #35694) Subject: Timbrens
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Posts: 212 Location: novinger, mo
Yes, that is true. The reason I wanted them was to dampen the bounce when pulling the trailer. I have no problem with the truck by itself. So, it was a cheaper and easier solution for me.
Air Bags for truck and trailer ??
