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Upgrade a Truck

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Harfy
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2005-06-30 11:50 PM (#27456)
Subject: Upgrade a Truck


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Location: San Antonio Texas
I have a 03' 1500HD(6 ltr V8 gas) short bed with 4.10 gears.  I think my tow capacity is about 10,200.  I pull a (steel) 3 horse slant (bumper pull) with a tack room.  I want to move up to a 4 horse Aluminum gooseneck with a tack room.  Is there anyway to beef up my truck for the towing? Is the 10,200 rating change if it is bumper or gooseneck?  I have not owned a gooseneck before.  I appreciate anyhelp you can give.  And if the answer is no to all of the above, who has a late model Chevy diesel 3/4 ton crew cab with leather for sale under 30K.  Thanks for all the help. OH and Hi to the group, new guy here. 

Edited by Harfy 2005-07-01 8:41 AM
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budgoetz
Reg. Feb 2005
Posted 2005-07-01 7:36 AM (#27459 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Posts: 18

Location: Verona, KY

I don't know the details of the trailer you have in mind, but your truck should handle it.  You'll need to install a gooseneck hitch, look at the B&W turnover ball.  It seems to be the most popular. 

Search the postings here for information on how to determine the amount of trailer you can pull.

One other consideration, since you have a short bed pickup, make sure the trailer has a tapered nose, if it doesn't clearance between the trailer and the truck cab will be an issue when you make tight turns.

I pull a 3H gooseneck with my shortbed Ram 2500 with no problems.  I do have the Cummins though.

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Harfy
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2005-07-01 8:40 AM (#27465 - in reply to #27459)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Location: San Antonio Texas
I made one major error in my message.  I have 1500 HD not a 2500HD.  I am looking at 2500's must have had them on the brain.  Not how are we looking???
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kmvd
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2005-07-01 9:00 AM (#27466 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Posts: 6

Location: Outside Dallas, Texas
The guy with the Cummins pull just fine because he has a 3/4 ton truck more than the fact that he has the Cummins.  Your half ton truck may pull the trailer, but as always, can you get it stopped?  Yea, the trailer brakes will stop the trailer, but you have a light short box( read short wheelbase) truck.  We just bought a 4 horse slant CM, weighs around 5700lbs, and my 3/4 ton Ford pulls it with ease, and I have 3.73 gears.  More importantly though, I don't feel the cross winds as bad and have reasonable security that if the whole rig drifts off the shoulder of the road from wind or my fatigue or a passing 18 wheeler or whatever I have a decent chance of getting things back up on the pavement because I've got considerably greater stabilty due to longer wheelbase and a heavier truck.  Many folks pull with duallies not because they need the added rear load capabilities but because of the considerable stability the 4 rear tires provide.  I'm not suggesting you get a duallie but I'm suggesting you look at some of the other factors that go into pulling trailers.  Additionally, your half ton brakes are quite a bit smaller than the 3/4 or 1 ton brakes(those two are the same), doesn't matter what the make of truck.  Sell the half ton, get a 3/4 ton and you'll be amazed at the difference the added frame and axle weight make on pulling a trailer.  Lastly, many folks think the heavier trucks ride like road wagons, and they used to, but not any more.  The mfg's have provided progressive spring rates that allow an unloaded truck to ride very comfortably.  I've forgotten where you are but the kind of truck I'm suggesting can be easily found used at a reasonable price and in good shape.
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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-07-01 9:21 AM (#27468 - in reply to #27466)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Originally written by kmvd on 2005-07-01 10:00 AM

The guy with the Cummins pull just fine because he has a 3/4 ton truck more than the fact that he has the Cummins.  Your half ton truck may pull the trailer, but as always, can you get it stopped?  Yea, the trailer brakes will stop the trailer, but you have a light short box( read short wheelbase) truck.  We just bought a 4 horse slant CM, weighs around 5700lbs, and my 3/4 ton Ford pulls it with ease, and I have 3.73 gears.  More importantly though, I don't feel the cross winds as bad and have reasonable security that if the whole rig drifts off the shoulder of the road from wind or my fatigue or a passing 18 wheeler or whatever I have a decent chance of getting things back up on the pavement because I've got considerably greater stabilty due to longer wheelbase and a heavier truck.  Many folks pull with duallies not because they need the added rear load capabilities but because of the considerable stability the 4 rear tires provide.  I'm not suggesting you get a duallie but I'm suggesting you look at some of the other factors that go into pulling trailers.  Additionally, your half ton brakes are quite a bit smaller than the 3/4 or 1 ton brakes(those two are the same), doesn't matter what the make of truck.  Sell the half ton, get a 3/4 ton and you'll be amazed at the difference the added frame and axle weight make on pulling a trailer.  Lastly, many folks think the heavier trucks ride like road wagons, and they used to, but not any more.  The mfg's have provided progressive spring rates that allow an unloaded truck to ride very comfortably.  I've forgotten where you are but the kind of truck I'm suggesting can be easily found used at a reasonable price and in good shape.
here we go again.......if memory serves.... the 1500hd is (basically)mechanically the same as the 2500/3500 with the exceptions of the avaliable engines(and dual wheels). in fact looking at the 05 specs(which i doubt changed much from 03) the tow ratings are almost identical for the 1500hd/2500/3500 when the 2500/3500 are equiped with the 6.0l gas engine. and the brakes are exactly the same, which should make some of the more "physics 101" challenged people feel better. of course the only way to know how your truck will do is to crunch the actual numbers. GVWR of truck and trailer, payload of truck etc....good luck.

Edited by chadsalt 2005-07-01 9:29 AM
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-07-01 9:34 AM (#27471 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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"Mechanically the same.."  NOT .... I'll assume since you want to move up to a four horse trailer from a three horse trailer, you're gonna haul 4 horses.

You will find your 1/2 ton truck will be lacking in the weight carrying area.  Also known as payload...  The GN will put about 20% of the trailers weight on the hitch.  Without real numbers, I can only guess,  My guess is you will be severely overloaded with the hitch weight of a loaded 4 horse gn.  Remember the weight of the hitch installed in the truck counts toward the payload too.

The tires, springs, wheels, frame, brakes, shocks, of a 1/2 ton truck are not up to the 4 horse GN.  Look up the ratings yourself.  Don't rely on the faceless musings of the internet truck jockeys that fancy themselves experts.

 

edited for spelling



Edited by hosspuller 2005-07-01 9:37 AM
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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-07-01 9:52 AM (#27473 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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hosspuller,where are you getting your info that the 1500hd is a half ton? that is a common mistake.http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/specifications/#trailering
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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-07-01 9:55 AM (#27474 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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harfy,how about posting the GVWR of your truck please. im curious.
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Reg
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-07-01 9:57 AM (#27475 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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With a bright blue wrench - Yes, no, perhaps and maybe.
With ENOUGH modifications it could probably be made safe, though it would probably not be economic to do so.

Those "upgrades" don't 'up-qualify' the truck in any legal sense, well maybe if done by a certified vehicle completer (or whatever those people are called who add truck bodies to chassis/cabs). The tag on the door post is what the person in a blue suit will look at.

If you're looking at 3/4 ton... might as well look at 1 ton. With the price of fuel where it is right now you can probably get a better deal - probably better enough to make up for additional tolls, (slight) additional tire costs, (perhaps) additional fuel costs.

There are STILL 04 leftovers around, the '05s become leftovers... just about NOW !!!

PS PLEASE read existing posts on this topic, there is FAR MORE than we can repeat in a_NOTHER single thread.
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-07-01 10:12 AM (#27478 - in reply to #27473)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Originally written by chadsalt on 2005-07-01 8:52 AM

hosspuller,where are you getting your info that the 1500hd is a half ton? that is a common mistake.http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/specifications/#trailering

By common usage:  started before I was even driving.

class 1 trucks = 1/2 ton = ford 150, gm 1500, C10, etc

class 2 trucks = 3/4 ton = ford 250, gm 2500, C20, etc

class 3 trucks = 1 ton = ford 350, gm 3500, C30, etc

Chadsalt:  If a 1500HD was not a class 1 truck, GM is either marketing through their teeth or lying.  It's all marketing.  Would you compare a Ford 350 SRW to their 350 DRW and call them the same?  I'd wager if it was truely within a current class 2, they'd change the series number and charge more.  Your pick...

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-07-01 10:20 AM (#27479 - in reply to #27478)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Originally written by hosspuller on 2005-07-01 11:12 AM

Originally written by chadsalt on 2005-07-01 8:52 AM

hosspuller,where are you getting your info that the 1500hd is a half ton? that is a common mistake.http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/specifications/#trailering

By common usage:  started before I was even driving.

class 1 trucks = 1/2 ton = ford 150, gm 1500, C10, etc

class 2 trucks = 3/4 ton = ford 250, gm 2500, C20, etc

class 3 trucks = 1 ton = ford 350, gm 3500, C30, etc

Chadsalt:  If a 1500HD was not a class 1 truck, GM is either marketing through their teeth or lying.  It's all marketing.  Would you compare a Ford 350 SRW to their 350 DRW and call them the same?  I'd wager if it was truely within a current class 2, they'd change the series number and charge more.  Your pick...

i know what is generally accepted. did you check out the chevy site? the 05 1500hd GVWR is 8600, now am i the only one who thinks that a little high for a 1/2 ton? thats because its not a 1/2 ton. yes it is all marketing but what does that have to do with the facts? (which is what i like to deal in) i guess knowledge is what separates "internet truck jockeys that fancy themselves experts" from the rest. maybe im not just fancying(spelling) myself an expert.ex•pertPronunciation: (—n., v.ek'spûrt;—adj.ek'spûrt, ik-spûrt'), [key] —n. 1. a person who has special skill or knowledge in some particular field; specialist; authority:

Edited by chadsalt 2005-07-01 10:22 AM
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laxpatrick
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2005-07-01 10:38 AM (#27481 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Posts: 247
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Location: La Crosse, WI - God's Country
Honest questions - not being familiar with the 1500HD. Does that have the 14 bolt rear end? Are the brakes similarly sized to the 1500 or are they larger?

I tow a Kiefer 4H LQ with my '04 CTD short box QC. I wouldn't haul with anything less. If I could, I'd go 1 ton for stability and also enjoy the benefits of the long box.

LAXPatrick
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xyzer
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2005-07-01 10:51 AM (#27482 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Location: Albany, Oregon

"internet truck jockeys that fancy themselves experts"....and I are one!

Harfy....see what you started!...If I had no uptruck choice I would get a 4 horse G/N stock combo trailer . keep it light!!!...I personaly wouldn't want to haul 4 horses people and gear very far! If you want a fancy trailer with drop down windows and a weekender package...well you know what to do spend $$$$$$$$$$ on a new truck!



Edited by xyzer 2005-07-01 11:18 AM
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-07-01 1:18 PM (#27490 - in reply to #27479)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Originally written by chadsalt on 2005-07-01 9:20 AM

Originally written by hosspuller on 2005-07-01 11:12 AM

Originally written by chadsalt on 2005-07-01 8:52 AM

hosspuller,where are you getting your info that the 1500hd is a half ton? that is a common mistake.http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/specifications/#trailering

By common usage:  started before I was even driving.

class 1 trucks = 1/2 ton = ford 150, gm 1500, C10, etc

class 2 trucks = 3/4 ton = ford 250, gm 2500, C20, etc

class 3 trucks = 1 ton = ford 350, gm 3500, C30, etc

Chadsalt:  If a 1500HD was not a class 1 truck, GM is either marketing through their teeth or lying.  It's all marketing.  Would you compare a Ford 350 SRW to their 350 DRW and call them the same?  I'd wager if it was truely within a current class 2, they'd change the series number and charge more.  Your pick...

i know what is generally accepted. did you check out the chevy site? the 05 1500hd GVWR is 8600, now am i the only one who thinks that a little high for a 1/2 ton? thats because its not a 1/2 ton. yes it is all marketing but what does that have to do with the facts? (which is what i like to deal in) i guess knowledge is what separates "internet truck jockeys that fancy themselves experts" from the rest. maybe im not just fancying(spelling) myself an expert.ex•pertPronunciation: (—n., v.ek'spûrt;—adj.ek'spûrt, ik-spûrt'), [key] —n. 1. a person who has special skill or knowledge in some particular field; specialist; authority:

Okay .. It seems like GM is marketing a 3/4 ton truck as a 1500.

Harfy:  My advice advice still applies. investigate your payload yourself.  Realize the stated payload is for the base truck.  Subtract the weight of passengers, optional equipment, gn hitch, hay, firewood, etc to see if you have the capacity for that 4 horse trailer.  You'll have to make a judgement on how close to the max you're willing to risk.

Chadsalt: To paraphrase Sir W. Churchhill... I stand corrected this afternoon, you Sir, will still be a faceless internet truck jockey that fancy's himself an expert in the morning.

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-07-01 1:21 PM (#27492 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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can i use that as my signature?

Edited by chadsalt 2005-07-01 1:22 PM
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Terri
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2005-07-01 2:49 PM (#27500 - in reply to #27492)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck



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Ya'll can be so entertaining sometimes!!
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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-07-01 6:53 PM (#27505 - in reply to #27500)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Originally written by Terri on 2005-07-01 3:49 PM

Ya'll can be so entertaining sometimes!!

 

i do what i can. 

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PAWALKER
Reg. Jul 2005
Posted 2005-07-03 6:50 AM (#27535 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Unless things have changed over the years (my truck is a l978 4WD, I disagree on the size of the brakes being the same regardless of the truck series.

However, it makes the most sense to me to ask the moderator of this board; unless it isn't the guy at the top with the handlebar mustachio that sells trucks and trailers for a living.

My '78 GMC was born a heavy 3/4.  It's been modified to have one-ton cargo van leaf springs on the back end.  I had a '73, 454 out of a Suburban modified and put in after blowing up two 350's trying to haul a 4-horse stock trailer around in the Allegheny Mountains.

2003 models aren't near as Backyard User Friendly as my old GMC.  Might want to think about trading it off for a 2500 series with the appropriate towing package.

Unless you already have a big block in that 1500, sure you can haul the gooseneck around all you want on the Flatlands with a small block.  Too much hill climbing, especially loaded and in the heat, might get you blown up -- motor or transmission or both. Might just burn those brakes out too.  I did that once on a '73 3/4 ton that WASN'T heavy duty.

No matter what's being discussed in this life, "there ain't no replacement for cubic inch"

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-07-03 9:15 AM (#27541 - in reply to #27535)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Originally written by PAWALKER on 2005-07-03 7:50 AM

Unless things have changed over the years (my truck is a l978 4WD, I disagree on the size of the brakes being the same regardless of the truck series.

However, it makes the most sense to me to ask the moderator of this board; unless it isn't the guy at the top with the handlebar mustachio that sells trucks and trailers for a living.

things change every few years and if youre dealing with info from 1978 i dont see what you intend to add to this discussion.  i fail to see why you would disagree about the brakes, you apparently have acess to the internet. you do realize were talking about the 1500HD? and what would make the most sense is to check with the manufacturer. click on the braking tab and see for yourself.

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/specifications/#trailering

and youre right, "there is no replacement for displacement." except a turbo....wait, wouldnt that change the diplacement....oh never mind.



Edited by chadsalt 2005-07-03 9:36 AM
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crowleysridgegirl
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2005-07-03 11:29 AM (#27545 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Harfy-We had a 1/2 T Chevy and pulled a 3H GN Steel Towlite.It wasn't enough truck for it,the tranny went.The truck was old,but still wasn't enough.Finally 4 trucks later(long story) we got a truck for a trailer.Might add,we also traded to a big LQ trailer,hence,# of trucks.

Also may I add something about the turnover ball hitch? We had one,and you MUST be diligent about reversing the ball hitch and keeping it clean and lubed or it will "freeze" and will have to be hammered out.I like the "Hidden Hitch" where the ball hitch folds down rather than having to remove the ball and turn it over when not in use.The clearance on those is just too tight and if any grit or dirt at all get in it,forget it.You can't get it out.

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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2005-07-03 1:45 PM (#27547 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck



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Half ton trucks usually have only 6 lugs on their wheels. The 3/4 or 1 ton trucks usually have 8 lugs. Same thing with tires. The heavier trucks usually have tires rated at 3000lbs per tire. The body styles are the same, but the stuff under the sheet metal is different.

It not worth the risk, just upgrade the truck. I'll bet you can sell you 1/2 ton and buy the same year/make 1 ton for not much difference in cost. Inless you opt for diesel or some other expensive option.

The Aluminum GN I just sold weighed just over 5000. With 4 horses, gear, it was 11,000

I like the Diamond Hitch for the gooseneck ball. It turns over easily with no tools to give you a flat bed. No handles or springs under the bed. It takes about 1 hour to install and the only hole you drill is the one in the bed for the ball to come up through.

http://www.diamondhitchinc.com/index.htm
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PAWALKER
Reg. Jul 2005
Posted 2005-07-05 12:12 PM (#27613 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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things change every few years and if youre dealing with info from 1978 i dont see what you intend to add to this discussion.  i fail to see why you would disagree about the brakes, you apparently have acess to the internet. you do realize were talking about the 1500HD? and what would make the most sense is to check with the manufacturer. click on the braking tab and see for yourself.

chadsalt, I respectfully reply in kind:

You are correct that I am dealing with a 1978 vehicle.  What I INTENDED to add to this discussion was a double check of things to consider for safety if the 2003 model in question is being modified.

I did not waste my time going to the spec website you offered up.  It was much easier to have my husband look up what I wanted to know when he got to work.

My original comment was that, "--unless things have changed---", which evidently they MAY have.

The 1978 1500HD came with STD 11X2 brakes. There was an OPTION to buy the 11-5/32 X 2-3/4 brakes.

The OPTION on the 1500HD series is the STD on my 2500HD series truck that I own.  The OPTION in 1978 for a 2500HD series would have been 13 X 3.

Soooo back to my original point, which I'm not looking up because I know you will and will be sure to let me know:  Does the 2003 1500HD model have a STD brake pkg AND an OPTION brake pkg.  If not and it's the same size as the 2500HD series, all well and good.

If there is an option package, it would be handy for the Owner of the 2003 1500HD to know if the truck has that package or not.

If the 2003 model follows the same philosophy as my 1978 does have an option package, it's OPTION for a braking system would be my STD on my 2500HD.

So, if anyone's paying attention, I certainly have contributed something, provided they care about why one and one equal two in the safety arena.

I do care about those "whys" because I worked for mechanical engineers that built power generating equipment, and am more than fortuante to have an ace mechanic for a husband who has also built some pretty healthy engines for Stock Eliminator and Bracket racing. 

I don't just take the word of a spec site on the internet.  Along with there being "no replacement for cubic inches", there's also no replacement for "good ole boy knowledge", INTRAnet, and old mechanic's manuels.

 

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2005-07-05 12:37 PM (#27617 - in reply to #27613)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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Originally written by PAWALKER on 2005-07-05 1:12 PM

things change every few years and if youre dealing with info from 1978 i dont see what you intend to add to this discussion.  i fail to see why you would disagree about the brakes, you apparently have acess to the internet. you do realize were talking about the 1500HD? and what would make the most sense is to check with the manufacturer. click on the braking tab and see for yourself.

chadsalt, I respectfully reply in kind:

You are correct that I am dealing with a 1978 vehicle.  What I INTENDED to add to this discussion was a double check of things to consider for safety if the 2003 model in question is being modified.

I did not waste my time going to the spec website you offered up.  It was much easier to have my husband look up what I wanted to know when he got to work.

My original comment was that, "--unless things have changed---", which evidently they MAY have.

The 1978 1500HD came with STD 11X2 brakes. There was an OPTION to buy the 11-5/32 X 2-3/4 brakes.

The OPTION on the 1500HD series is the STD on my 2500HD series truck that I own.  The OPTION in 1978 for a 2500HD series would have been 13 X 3.

Soooo back to my original point, which I'm not looking up because I know you will and will be sure to let me know:  Does the 2003 1500HD model have a STD brake pkg AND an OPTION brake pkg.  If not and it's the same size as the 2500HD series, all well and good.

If there is an option package, it would be handy for the Owner of the 2003 1500HD to know if the truck has that package or not.

If the 2003 model follows the same philosophy as my 1978 does have an option package, it's OPTION for a braking system would be my STD on my 2500HD.

So, if anyone's paying attention, I certainly have contributed something, provided they care about why one and one equal two in the safety arena.

I do care about those "whys" because I worked for mechanical engineers that built power generating equipment, and am more than fortuante to have an ace mechanic for a husband who has also built some pretty healthy engines for Stock Eliminator and Bracket racing. 

I don't just take the word of a spec site on the internet.  Along with there being "no replacement for cubic inches", there's also no replacement for "good ole boy knowledge", INTRAnet, and old mechanic's manuels.

 

interesting, and thank you for clearing that up.

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Erin_CBT
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2005-07-06 10:40 AM (#27677 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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I pulled a Bloomer aluminum 3 horse with a 7' short wall with my 1/2 gmc ONCE, and would never do it again. I was adaquate, but had no room for leway. Just be careful. A lot of things can be done to trucks, I'd look into them before you invest in a bigger trailer.
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arroyoseccofarm
Reg. Apr 2004
Posted 2005-07-07 9:41 AM (#27730 - in reply to #27456)
Subject: RE: Upgrade a Truck


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I'd get a bigger truck.

 

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