I'm working on an article for Quarter Horse News regarding GVW restrictions and braking laws. I hear some performance horse people have been pulled over for pulling too heavy a load for the size of their trucks. Can anyone throw me one of their horror stories??? I guess some people in TX had their entire rig, horses and all impounded, ran out and bought a bigger truck, then had to hire someone with a classified drivers license to drive it! Can anybody else sympathize?
Posted 2005-04-21 8:57 PM (#24140 - in reply to #24137) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 14
Location: Springville, CA
Well, I agree that people should be informed and most people going down the road showing performance horses have the best of intentions, good equipment, etc. The problem stems from not realizing how much weight is added to your rig when you stock the living quarters, throw 8-10 bales of hay in the roof rack, and load up tack, grain, scooters, wheelbarrows, and the lot...
Posted 2005-04-21 9:04 PM (#24141 - in reply to #24140) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Location: sc
Originally written by Annie O on 2005-04-21 9:57 PM
Well, I agree that people should be informed and most people going down the road showing performance horses have the best of intentions, good equipment, etc. The problem stems from not realizing how much weight is added to your rig when you stock the living quarters, throw 8-10 bales of hay in the roof rack, and load up tack, grain, scooters, wheelbarrows, and the lot...
its called a "scale". use it. and dont get me started about the average yahoo being able to hook his truck to a 6 ton trailer and just be able to go as they please with no further driver license requirements.
Posted 2005-04-21 9:57 PM (#24142 - in reply to #24140) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Location: North Carolina
Hello Annie .. Welcome to the forum. The lack of sympathy Reg alluded to is from the many times we've had this very discussion on this forum.
It usually starts with "can my (name of vehicle) pull this?"
By the time someone gets to a 4 horse living quarter trailer they should understand what they're getting into. Financially, Mechanically as well as Legally.
Like a upper tier blog, the wealth of collective knowlege on this forum about horse trailers is truely amazing.
Test us .. ask a question.
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is forever.
So to your original question....
Yes, I have second person knowledge of getting stopped in NC with a horse trailer rated in excess of 10,000 pounds. In NC this requires a class "A" license.
Posted 2005-04-21 9:59 PM (#24143 - in reply to #24137) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 14
Location: Springville, CA
Wow, is it just me or are you guys always this hostile? I'm simply trying to find out if there are people in this forum who have made the mistake of overloading their towing vehicle with too heavy a trailer and had problems with the new enforcement of laws in various states. I'm researching for an article that will hopefully help everyone in the horse business get informed and prevent citations and accidents. If you don't have anything positive to add you need not contribute. Thanks anyway...
Posted 2005-04-21 10:04 PM (#24144 - in reply to #24142) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 14
Location: Springville, CA
Thank you for being civil and explaining why there seems to be some hostility on the part of 'others.' I appreciate your input and would like to interview someone that has had this problem, even if by email. . . to find out why they didn't realize what they were getting into, how they remedied their situation, etc. Quarter Horse News, if you are not familiar with it, is not a gunsil magazine and our readership is professional horsemen and top non-pros, for the most part. We don't fit into the backyard horse owner market. Thanks again...
Posted 2005-04-21 10:12 PM (#24145 - in reply to #24143) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina
Originally written by Annie O on 2005-04-21 10:59 AM
Wow, is it just me or are you guys always this hostile? I'm simply trying to find out if there are people in this forum who have made the mistake of overloading their towing vehicle with too heavy a trailer and had problems with the new enforcement of laws in various states. I'm researching for an article that will hopefully help everyone in the horse business get informed and prevent citations and accidents. If you don't have anything positive to add you need not contribute. Thanks anyway...
Annie ..I think You're confusing the lack of sympathy toward stupidity with hostility. There is no hostility from this poster. We've answered the same questions many times. Any long term participant in this forum learns very quickly to avoid common and not so common mistakes in horse trailering.
Posted 2005-04-21 10:22 PM (#24146 - in reply to #24144) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Location: North Carolina
Originally written by Annie O on 2005-04-21 11:04 AM
... to find out why they didn't realize what they were getting into, how they remedied their situation, etc. Quarter Horse News, if you are not familiar with it, is not a gunsil magazine and our readership is professional horsemen and top non-pros, for the most part. We don't fit into the backyard horse owner market. Thanks again...
I think folks get into "situations" because the regulations are variable state to state, there are many exemptions like for RV's, the regulations are applicable to only a few horse situations, and lastly, there is usually a very fine legal line between horse trailers covered by a car license and those not.
Posted 2005-04-21 10:34 PM (#24147 - in reply to #24137) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 14
Location: Springville, CA
You 'Hosshauler' were very civil and informative and it is appreciated. I used to haul horses professionally and have a good base in the horse biz my entire life. I was - as I said before - seeking someone's personal experiences. I appreciate your input. Thanks.
Posted 2005-04-21 10:35 PM (#24148 - in reply to #24144) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Location: North Carolina
Originally written by Annie O on 2005-04-21 11:04 AM
. Quarter Horse News, if you are not familiar with it, is not a gunsil magazine and our readership is professional horsemen and top non-pros, for the most part. We don't fit into the backyard horse owner market. Thanks again...
Posted 2005-04-22 7:04 AM (#24156 - in reply to #24137) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 14
Location: Springville, CA
Thanks so much for the link. I have been to that one and to AAA and others. I'm still looking for the human connection...someone who has had a problem, etc. and hopefully someone who travels a lot to shows rather than someone who is an occasional trail rider. Thanks!
Posted 2005-04-22 7:52 AM (#24158 - in reply to #24140) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Originally written by Annie O on 2005-04-21 8:57 PM
Well, I agree that people should be informed and most people going down the road showing performance horses have the best of intentions, good equipment, etc. The problem stems from not realizing how much weight is added to your rig when you stock the living quarters, throw 8-10 bales of hay in the roof rack, and load up tack, grain, scooters, wheelbarrows, and the lot...
I agree, there is temptation is to put in another xyz or two in case we need it. There is also temptation to count only horse weight and assume that tack, water and feed are light enough to be ignored (they're NOT !).
Horse pleasures are typically removed from math, science and engineering, (Thank goodness for THAT !) However, when moving around on public roads it is necessary to do a bit of arithmetic to ensure that we're SAFE and in compliance with state and local laws for the sake of everyone, including the animals.
I think over the years my view of overloaded rigs has moved from;
"Gee, I hope they know what they're doing and take it easy."
to
"I'm glad I'm not driving THAT rig"
to
"They really SHOULD get some load off, get a bigger truck, leave a horse or two at home, etc."
to
"Call the cops, they need to be STOPPED !"
Not that I've ever actually called the cops on anyone - maybe I should ?
So yes, I've developed less sympathy and compassion in my attitude toward what I regard as stupid and reckless behavior in regard to the safety of themselves, their animals and other road users (including ME !).
If this seems hostile so be it, but I really don't want to share the road with overloaded rigs and I get upset with cops that don't/won't enforce the laws that are supposedly there to help protect us all. I also get ansy on this forum with folk who express pleasure that law enforcement in their area is lax.
Posted 2005-04-22 8:03 AM (#24159 - in reply to #24137) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 14
Location: Springville, CA
I appreciate your input and want you to know that the entire purpose of this QHN article is to impress saftey issues on operators and let them know that law enforcement is tightening down on overloaded rigs. Over a dozen states have already amended their laws and the word is out that the remaining will be doing so...or at least enforcing the laws already on the books. Thanks.
Posted 2005-04-22 8:12 AM (#24160 - in reply to #24137) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Annie,
I think I may be looking at the other side of the same coin.
I really DO believe that the "problem" isn't at the weigh station, or with the cops "hassling" people for overloading their rigs.
I believe the problem IS with folk overloading their rigs, or as we've said in the forum more than a few times, "not buying enough truck".
We have MANY topics in here from folk who ALREADY HAVE truck x and trailer y and THEN want to know if they really can put a horse in every stall given all the GVxxx ratings. Too late, they're out of money, can't get a bigger truck and HAVE TO take ALL the horses - - and tack, water, hay, etc.
I don't have an answer, other than keep your truck and trailer capacities in step with your horse and gear hauling needs.
Its expen$ive, horses are expensive, trucks are ~$40/50K, trailers are however much you want to spend, but it can be VERY EXPENSIVE to do it wrong, if we can't pay we can't play, etc.
Posted 2005-04-22 8:42 AM (#24161 - in reply to #24137) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Location: North Carolina
Annie .. Then for your purposes.
A friend of mine was stopped by NC DOT enforcement. After checking the rig and license of the driver, he issued a citation for improper license for the class of vehicle. He also warned the driver that the rig COULD be impounded until a driver with the proper license was available. But since live animals were involved, he did not. It was only after my friend was stopped, that I became aware of the NC regulation. To wit: Any vehicle towing a trailer over 10,000 # gvw "RATING" requires a class "A" license. The rating is printed on the DOT tag that every trailer has. This little snag is NOT the actual weight of the trailer. This regulation isn't hidden. It's on the back of everyone's license. Who reads that? The biggest issue is the trailer builders usually use the weight rating of the axles to arrive at the GVWR. Two 6000 # axles and the trailer GVWR is 12,000#.
There are a couple of ways to handle this problem. One: get a class "A" license. In NC one has to take a driving test with a class "A" vehicle. How does one get a class"A" vehicle to the testing site? A Class "A" driver is needed... What a Pain!!
Two: (the route I used) My 3 horse trailer was rated at 12,000#. The actual weight loaded was well under that. I asked the trailer builder to reissue the DOT plate with a lower rating. They did and now I'm legal. Obviously, this last route won't do for a 6 horse trailer. But it worked for me.
Posted 2005-04-22 8:45 AM (#24162 - in reply to #24137) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 14
Location: Springville, CA
Reg, we are on the same side of the coin. But, my job is to point all those variables out through the story I'm working on. You are exactly correct and I totally agree. With the cost of high dollar performance horses, and those vehicles that transport them, people need to be aware of the dangers and added expenses. That is the point of the article. So, do you know of any individuals that suffered the consequenses from their ignorance?
Posted 2005-04-22 8:50 AM (#24163 - in reply to #24161) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 14
Location: Springville, CA
Thanks Hosspuller! That is an example of what I need...appreciated! A few more examples like that and maybe a contact # for a personal interview with a 'victim' (I use that term loosely, don't get excited, ha!) and I might be able to take Sunday off this weekend! Thanks...
Posted 2005-04-22 11:41 AM (#24171 - in reply to #24164) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina
Originally written by Annie O on 2005-04-22 9:51 PM
BTW...are you a commercial hauler???
No ... Otherwise I would have to have a CDL.
Any person hauling for hire is a commercial driver. That's why hauling people's horses for pay is fraught with risk. The horse owner has you if the horse is hurt, the law has you for commercial use / plates/ license and the insurance company has you for commercial use unless you pay commercial rates.
There really isn't much difference between the much disdained "backyard horse owner" or ""trail rider" and the BigTime show people. We all have the same trailer driving issues.
Posted 2005-04-22 11:48 AM (#24172 - in reply to #24137) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 14
Location: Springville, CA
Yes, I know about the risks and expenses of hauling...I didn't need a class A license in CA as I was shuttling horses between racetracks with a two-horse trailer. I did have to have a DOT # (!$$$!) and paid the same insurance as someone transporting gasoline with a tanker, uck. Fortunately, racetrack rates covered the expenses and provided a living. The reason I need the 'big time show horse people' is because my article must be slanted toward our readership, which are those competitors that go down the road to major events each week... Nothing against the little guys (I am one, don't show right now, just ride my beast and help neighbors w/ cattle), just journalistic rules of thumb...
Posted 2005-04-22 12:44 PM (#24174 - in reply to #24172) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 59
Location: Colorado
Welcome Annie,
While I don't have any personal stories to give you, I think the story you are doing is much needed.
Frankly I can't believe some of the first responses you received here. While I think we can all agree that people need to understand and obey the laws, CLEARY the laws as they apply to recreational horse pullers is vague and difficult to interpret for the AVERAGE recreational horse person, especially when you start crossing state lines. There are plenty of horse trailers that aren't really that big at all and that are RATED over 10,000# GVWR, apparently in some states you need a special license to pull said trailer. How many horse people know that? If you break a towing law it doesn't ALWAYS mean you are an unsafe person, After all what's legal and "safe" in South Carolina might not be legal in North Carolina. Crossing a state line may make you not legal, but I'm not sure it makes you unsafe. I'm not condoning ignorance on the part of the person haulling the horses, but if States are going to start cracking down on laws, they need to do a REASONABLE job of making the laws clear and known.
There have been several threads on this site, where even the experts with a whole lot of experience hauling horses can't quite agree on exactly what is and isn't legal in certain states.
Here is one, with a story like what you are looking for. Maybe you can contact the original poster.
Posted 2005-04-22 12:46 PM (#24175 - in reply to #24172) Subject: RE: towing regulations regarding brakes/weight issues
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Posts: 2953
Location: North Carolina
Annie ... You might also write about the need for a health certificate along with the coggins. NC is one of the states recently joining a compact for a new program of interchangable health certificates.