Posted 2012-09-10 1:44 AM (#146917) Subject: check engine light
Elite Veteran
Posts: 610 Location: Northern CA
I have an '02 GMC 2500, 4x4 Duramax diesel. The check engine light comes on when in towing up-hill. Anyways, after un-hooking trailer and starting truck up later, the light goes off. Doesn't come back on again until towing up the hill. Called dealership and they want $300- just to hook it up to the diagnostic machine! Is this crazy or is that what people are paying for this!?? I am the second owner of this truck and had the Glow plugs all replaced and all the fluids changed. Fuel injectors are original as far as I know. There is no white smoke coming out of tail pipe when I start it and no "pinging" sounds coming from the engine. (Which is what I was told would happen if it was an injector) It does however shoot out black smoke when I "get on it" (passing gear or up-hill) I just had the fuel filter changed and the black smoke is nowhere near as bad as it was before.(again..black smoke only in passing gear)A friend hooked it up to their "diagnosis machine" and it read a 1093 code which is "fuel rail system". Any ideas what it could be? Could it possibly be just 1 injector or what? A friend of mine has an '05 that she had to have just 1 injector replaced. But..she said she could hear "pinging". And told me, " you will know when an injector goes".
Also, while in tow haul mode, tranny is not shifting until it gets to the 2.5 RPM. Is this normal? It sounds like it is not shifting when supposed to. This is between the speeds of 30-50 MPH that it does this. Only the up-shift though. The down-shift is fine. And this is ONLY in tow haul mode that this is happening.
Posted 2012-09-10 1:52 AM (#146918 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Elite Veteran
Posts: 610 Location: Northern CA
Forgot to mention that the black smoke that is emitted when in passing gear... It only happens once a day as if it just needed the pipes to blow out residue for the day. So, doesn't do it again on the same trip.
Posted 2012-09-10 6:19 AM (#146919 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Veteran
Posts: 116 Location: desert hills, az
You may want to check the formums at www.dieselplace.com search your year and model for threads. I have found this site to be very helpful with my Duramax questions.
Posted 2012-09-10 11:35 AM (#146921 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Elite Veteran
Posts: 714 Location: Minnesota
I can only answer about the shifting. That is what "tow/haul" does. It lets the engine get higher RPM's before shifting to save the tranny from lugging down to much and causing damage.
Posted 2012-09-10 2:21 PM (#146922 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
Black smoke on a diesel is just unburnt fuel being exhausted. That is why it is so common to see on Tuned engines where the injectors are turned up to higher levels. The newer the engine the better the computer and injectors are at giving the exact amount of required fuel and not injected excess that turns up as black smoke. Couple that with the Diesel Particulate Filters that were installed on all diesels after 2008 and you see very little black smoke on modern diesel engines. A bad inector can cause black smoke, because it is feeding too much fuel, but it is not the only cause of black smoke.
Tow/Haul, will cause the transmission to hold gear longer,. Keeping your engine in higher RPM for the extra power needed while towing. So yes it is expected to see your tranny not shift at lower rpms like you would when your truck is empty.
If you know the DTC Code, Just call your service advisor and ask what causes it and what the estimated repair is. I have not had any check engine lights in two years since I bought my 2011 F350, But I had called several times on previous trucks and found the service advisor very helpful in telling me what the code ment and what the probable repair would be. It's part of developing a relationship with your service advisor. On several cases, I just came in and bought the parts and did the repair myself. No hard feelings with the advisor for telling me what the code was and how to fix it.
As far as paying $300 to hook up and read the code. You can buy several products that will read the code for you for that price. I use the Edge Insight on my truck (they sell for about $300). Acts as an extra guage most of the time, displaying oil and transmission temps. But if I ever see the check engine light it will display the codes and even clear a code if I need it cleared. When I had a HPOP failure on my 2006 6.0L engine, Truck was dead, Would not start. Called my service advisor and gave him the code that the Edge Insight had retrieved. He told me what the problem was and suggested I clear the code and start the truck and drive it in for repairs. I cleared the code, Truck then started, I was able to take my trailer home and then drop the truck off at the dealership for repairs, A whole lot better ending that having a tow truck come get me and worrying about how to get my trailer home.
Posted 2012-09-10 6:29 PM (#146927 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Elite Veteran
Posts: 610 Location: Northern CA
I did call the service department at the dealership with the code reading and all they said was bring it in so that they could hook it up to their diagnostic machine, charge me the $300- and then tell me what they find. Even though I told them we got a code 1093, they told me it could be a number of different things. Then they told me to wait until the engine light stays on permanently to bring it in? That the reading might not be good until the light is on "fixed". Well, I can't tow my trailer until then???
Posted 2012-09-10 10:16 PM (#146930 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Veteran
Posts: 197 Location: AZ
We have a '99 Chevy (preDuramax) and have gotten various codes. Finally, we traced it to the Turbo...wastegate solenoid). I have learned a lot from www.thedieselplace.com A lot of knowledgeable people on those forums...just like here. Good luck. oh, we had similar 'symptoms' as you were describing.
Posted 2012-09-10 10:33 PM (#146931 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
Originally written by jackbrat on 2012-09-10 1:44 AM
I have an '02 GMC 2500, 4x4 Duramax diesel. The check engine light comes on when in towing up-hill. Anyways, after un-hooking trailer and starting truck up later, the light goes off. Doesn't come back on again until towing up the hill. Called dealership and they want $300- just to hook it up to the diagnostic machine! Is this crazy or is that what people are paying for this!?? I am the second owner of this truck and had the Glow plugs all replaced and all the fluids changed. Fuel injectors are original as far as I know. There is no white smoke coming out of tail pipe when I start it and no "pinging" sounds coming from the engine. (Which is what I was told would happen if it was an injector) It does however shoot out black smoke when I "get on it" (passing gear or up-hill) I just had the fuel filter changed and the black smoke is nowhere near as bad as it was before.(again..black smoke only in passing gear)A friend hooked it up to their "diagnosis machine" and it read a 1093 code which is "fuel rail system". Any ideas what it could be? Could it possibly be just 1 injector or what? A friend of mine has an '05 that she had to have just 1 injector replaced. But..she said she could hear "pinging". And told me, " you will know when an injector goes".
Also, while in tow haul mode, tranny is not shifting until it gets to the 2.5 RPM. Is this normal? It sounds like it is not shifting when supposed to. This is between the speeds of 30-50 MPH that it does this. Only the up-shift though. The down-shift is fine. And this is ONLY in tow haul mode that this is happening.
Posted 2012-09-11 12:49 AM (#146933 - in reply to #146930) Subject: RE: check engine light
Elite Veteran
Posts: 610 Location: Northern CA
AZgrulla,
Thanks, I will try the dieselplace forums.
Did your truck make any sounds that you could identify with the turbo solenoid? I do hear every once in a while...usually when the truck is cold, a whining sound? Like the radiator fan or a blower of some kind is coming on and then goes off. And I don't think it is the radiator fan either...it's just what it sounds like though. It doesn't do this all the time though but it is usually when I first start the truck up and then drive off.
Posted 2012-09-11 12:51 AM (#146934 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Elite Veteran
Posts: 610 Location: Northern CA
Also, I read my manual and it says not to let the truck warm up for too long? Like more than 2.5 minutes? I always thought that diesels should be given time to 'warm" up before driven off? How long do you all let your diesels warm up before you drive off?
Posted 2012-09-11 5:21 PM (#146940 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Member
Posts: 37 Location: Upstate NY
call a different dealer.
I used to live less than a mile from a chevy dealer but their service is about what you are describing. I called the GM dealer 30miles away and they are always better
Posted 2012-09-14 7:06 AM (#146977 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Elite Veteran
Posts: 610 Location: Northern CA
Thanks Jeeppir. That is what I was afraid of, and of course it is no longer under warranty too right? It has only 84k on it. Ughhh. Well, it just sits now cause I don't have the money to get it fixed.
I don't have any smoke or smell of oil in the diesel though. At least not yet? Or is it diesel in the oil? Just had a friend change out the fuel filter and there is black something on the old filter. He tore into the old one to see if he could find pieces of metal or what not. He doesn't think it is oil though(on the filter)What else might it be?
Posted 2012-09-14 8:05 AM (#146978 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Member
Posts: 22
Location: 03303
You don't say what you have for a trailer. You don't say how hard the trailer is to tow (some trailers just create a lot of drag). You don't say how steep the hills are.
But my guess is that your truck is starving a bit for fuel because of the drag going up hill (it wants to gulp and only sips are coming through). You might be lugging the engine. Dropping a gear might work. Slowing down and dropping a gear might work.
More likely then not, however, this isn't a big deal. You're overloading the fuel system in your truck during uphill runs, causing the computer to spit out an angry message at you (the computer is more sensitive then the driver). I had a trailer/truck combination that did that for years. Just meant I had to plan hills a bit more carefully then normal. Without more going on then you're describing, I won't lose any sleep over it.
Posted 2012-09-14 8:10 AM (#146979 - in reply to #146934) Subject: RE: check engine light
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
Originally written by jackbrat on 2012-09-11 5:51 PM
Also, I read my manual and it says not to let the truck warm up for too long? Like more than 2.5 minutes? I always thought that diesels should be given time to 'warm" up before driven off? How long do you all let your diesels warm up before you drive off?
The engine will actually warm up faster if you just drive. No hard acceleration, no racing, just drive.
On mine, I can have the engine coolant warmer with 1 minutes of driving than I can with 10 minutes of idling. So start the engine, let it idle long enough to get the oil pumping and circulating and then drive. By getting a little turbo boost going, Your combustion temps will climb dramatically which will heat the engine block much faster, The coolant is working at cooling the block and you will see your coolant temps climb much faster.
Posted 2012-09-14 8:17 AM (#146980 - in reply to #146977) Subject: RE: check engine light
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
Originally written by jackbrat on 2012-09-14 12:06 AM
I don't have any smoke or smell of oil in the diesel though. At least not yet? Or is it diesel in the oil? Just had a friend change out the fuel filter and there is black something on the old filter. He tore into the old one to see if he could find pieces of metal or what not. He doesn't think it is oil though(on the filter)What else might it be?
Diesel engines produce soot. The oil that you use in a diesel engine is designed to carry a high load of soot in suspension and still provide lubrication. That is why you don't use the same kind of oil that you would use in a gas engine. Make sure the oil you use is designated for a diesel engine. New oil goes into the engine with a golden color and will turn BLACK very quickly. After 5000 miles everything in the oil filter will be black from the soot carried in the oil.
Posted 2012-09-14 8:17 AM (#146981 - in reply to #146978) Subject: RE: check engine light
Elite Veteran
Posts: 610 Location: Northern CA
Equinetransport,
I have an '06 2-horse all aluminum Classic trailer ( gooseneck)It weighs with nothing in it 4400. So, nothing for my truck to pull with 1 horse and my camping gear. I'm not losing power up-hills yet..well it is slowing down a little but if I press the pedal it goes. Anyways, No bad sounds...just that annoying "service engine soon" light comes on, on the hills. These are slight hills, nothing major. No ruff engine ride yet anyways.
Posted 2012-09-14 9:11 AM (#146983 - in reply to #146981) Subject: RE: check engine light
Member
Posts: 22
Location: 03303
I'm going to use all caps, not because I'm shouting, but so you can see my response to each line of yours.
Originally written by jackbrat on 2012-09-14 8:17 AM
Equinetransport,
I have an '06 2-horse all aluminum Classic trailer ( gooseneck)It weighs with nothing in it 4400. IN THEORY, YOU'RE RIGHT. REMEMBER THAT WEIGHT NEEDS TO BE COMBINED WITH THE DRAG THROUGH THE AIR. YOU TOW AN 8-6 WIDE AND 12 HIGH TRAILER THAT DOESN'T WEIGH MUCH AND YOU'LL SEE A DROP IN GAS MILEAGE BECAUSE THE AIR DRAG IS SO HIGH. PERSONALLY, I PREFER HEAVY TRAILERS WITH LOW AIR DRAG FOR GAS MILEAGE. YOU CAN ALSO GET BRAKE DRAG, BEARING DRAG, OR WHEEL DRAG FROM THE TRAILER. FIND SOMEONE WHO'S HAULED A LOT OF DIFFERENT TRAILERS AND ASK HIM/HER TO HAUL YOUR TRAILER WITH THEIR TRUCK. SEE WHAT THEIR REACTION TO IT IS.
So, nothing for my truck to pull with 1 horse and my camping gear. I'm not losing power up-hills yet..well it is slowing down a little but if I press the pedal it goes. THE COMPUTER IS MORE SENSITIVE THEN YOU ARE. OR ANY HUMAN. THE PARAMETERS THAT ARE SET WITHIN IT ARE DESIGNED TO REALIZE PROBLEMS BEFORE THEY BECOME NOTICEABLE TO YOU.
Anyways, No bad sounds...just that annoying "service engine soon" light comes on, on the hills. YOU CAN HUNT AROUND FOR THE REAL DIESEL MECHANIC IN YOUR AREA. MOST OF THE DEALERSHIPS HAVE CLUELESS TWITS, AND IF YOU ASK AROUND ENOUGH, YOU'LL FIND THE GUY WHO KNOWS DIESELS INSIDE AND OUT. IT COULD BE SOMETHING SUBTLE LIKE YOUR FUEL PUMP NOT DELIVERING FULL FUEL PRESSURE UNDER LOAD. TESTING IT AT IDLE AND THE FUEL PUMP WILL BE FINE, SO 9 OUT OF 10 MECHANICS WON'T FIND THIS. (BEEN THERE, DONE THAT) OF COURSE, YOU CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE FUEL PUMP TO GO FAR ENOUGH SOUTH THAT ANY IDIOT CAN FIGURE IT OUT. IT WON'T DO ANY HARM TO YOUR ENGINE.
These are slight hills, nothing major. SOME SMALL HILLS ARE WORSE THEN THE ROCKIES BECAUSE OF THE SLOPES AND THE INABILITY TO GET A RUN AT THEM.
No ruff engine ride yet anyways.
IF I'M NOT NOTICING A PROBLEM, THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT DOESN'T EXCITE ME TOO MUCH. I CAN SEE THAT DOWN THE ROAD, THIS MIGHT GET WORSE. BUT PROBABLY NOTHING THAT WILL HARM THE ENGINE.
Posted 2012-09-14 2:16 PM (#146994 - in reply to #146917) Subject: RE: check engine light
Veteran
Posts: 187 Location: KS
You should be able to get an auto supply place to read your code for free, like Auto Zone or someplace like that. When my truck done what it sounds like yours is doing it was my catalytic converter starting to plug up, replaced it and the truck ran fine.