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Trading In

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Hillview
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2010-07-19 6:51 PM (#122571)
Subject: Trading In


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Posts: 195
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Location: PA
I think this is more of a rant than a question. I have a 8008 Sundowner that I want to trade in so I can trade up to a 10 or 12 LQ. I've been given trade in values from dealers around $20-$25K even though the trailer is in great condition and has lots of nice extras. No dealers are willing to negotiate at all, period. Should I just wait for the economy to get better?

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hornet
Reg. Mar 2010
Posted 2010-07-19 7:31 PM (#122572 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 379
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Location: Missouri
I hear you! Last fall we talked to a dealer and he offered me what I considered scrap metal prices for my trailer. I ended up selling mine out right for what I wanted and buying from another dealer. My advice, list your trailer on this site, you'll get a better deal and be able to have cash down on your next trailer.

Edited by hornet 2010-07-19 7:35 PM
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2010-07-19 7:33 PM (#122573 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In



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Location: Northern Utah

I have no idea of what your trailer is worth. You didn't give any details about the trailer and in fairness you stated you were not looking for help, but rather ranting.

If you have had multiple dealer quote you a value, then I suspect that is what the trade in value is. You might get a little more selling it outright vs trading.

I compare most purchases in life to a water heater. Since I built my home, there have been numerous improvements to water heaters. More efficent, heat faster, cheaper to operate etd.  None of them motivates me enough to go buy a new water heater. If I get up in the morning and I get a cold shower, I go out and buy a new water heater. Whats the difference, My true motivation isn't the few pennies each month I will save, but rather I like hot showers and I will spend money to avoid cold showers.

My advice, If you need the larger horsetrailer. Go buy it if you can afford it. Two or three years from now when this economy finally recovers, your current 8008 trailer will be 2-3 years older and 2-3 years more depreciated. New trailers will cost more. I don't think we will ever see new materials drop in cost.  Steel and aluminum and other metals continue to increase in cost.  Instead of the difference between your current 8008 and larger trailer you desire being $25,000, it may be $35,000.

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genebob
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2010-07-19 10:51 PM (#122584 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 714
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Location: Minnesota
We just traded trailers three weeks ago. Traded a 2009 model we bought new in the fall of 08. A 3H 8' LQ, for an 07 3H 12 LQ. Thought we would really take it in the shorts in depreciation. Traded at the same dealership and think they gave us a pretty good deal. Like Painted Horse says, if you want it and can afford it do it. It seems when we go to a dealer, whether it be trailer or auto, we want retail for a trade in and wholesale on the purchase. I guess we all need to realize that a dealer needs to make money to stay in business. I was just at my mechanics (agood friend), a car he was working on needed a new battery. He looked it up and really agonized what to charge because his cost was $140 and list was $259. I told him he needed to charge pretty close to list, just because he has fixed costs that add up no matter what. Of course right after that he gave me the part for my wife's truck that I ordered for cost. Friendship does have it's privledges.
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Jaas
Reg. Mar 2009
Posted 2010-07-20 10:17 AM (#122602 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 83
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I think some of it is more than just the economy.  Some of it has to do with supply and demand.  Think of the number of nice living quarter trailers you see on the road now, compared to 3, 5 or 10 years ago.  Also, you see a lot of "cheaper" new living quarter trailers.  Whether the manufacturer is using "cheaper" materials, or the price is just coming down. 

Also, if you put the shoe on the other foot as if you were looking to buy your current trailer, how much of savings would you want for the used compared to the new.  A lot of people spending $30,000 to $40,000+ on a living quarter trailer would rather spend several thousand more to get the new one.  I would think a new one to be easier to finance longer.  As a buyer, I am usually a little suspect on too new of a used trailer.  Thinking that maybe there was something the owner didn't like about it, was having problems with something, so traded it off right away.

Just as with a new vehicle, the original owner takes the greatest depreciation hit the second they drive it off the lot.  Trading it back in too earlier will probably put that depreciation on you, and hit you in the pocket book.  That's just the price for not buying the larger trailer to start with, or not wanting to use your current trailer for more years.  When a bank will give you 15 years to pay on a trailer, and after a couple of years you have paid off minimal principal and want to trade, it's hard to come out financially (see current economy). 

That's just my opinion, I am not talking about you specifically.

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hornet
Reg. Mar 2010
Posted 2010-07-21 5:43 AM (#122627 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 379
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Location: Missouri
I realize the dealers need to make money, but they don't need to double their money at my expense. They offered me literally half what I sold it for using market prices. And no my trailer needed no detailing. Wife and I take extremely good care of our equipment, I even spent a winter buffing the aluminum to a mirror finish. I know there are decent dealers out there, my point to the Hillview is, don't take it personal, deal with someone who respects you and gives you a fair price.
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Tresvolte
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2010-07-21 8:30 AM (#122628 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In




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Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...

Keep in mind though, you should always be able to make your trailer bring more money than a dealer can. It's all psychological with the buyer... Buyers expect dealers to negotiate further than what an individual typically will. An individual has the story of the trailer, can give a buyer all of the qwerks of the trailer. They can give the history of the trailer and add value to it. Most of the time a buyer will spend more with an individual than they will with the dealer.

Most dealers will also have the expense of running the trailer through their shop, checking that everything works, in most cases cleaning, in some cases cleaning where it's required (bedding), advertise, pay utilities, stand behind the product that they sell, take trades, etc. And then to keep their doors open, still make money. If more than one dealer has given you a trade value, it's hard to say that they are all trying to double their money.

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Kay
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2010-07-21 9:31 AM (#122629 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 534
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Location: Zionsville, Indiana
To add to the equation, be aware that used LQ trailers are in plentiful supply right now, with lots of repos and with owners that simply want to get out from under the payments, or have simply exited the horse industry due to the economy.
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Hillview
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2010-07-21 3:57 PM (#122643 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 195
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Location: PA

I talked to a dealer yesterday that said he's been having a record year so far.  He's selling more trailers now than before the Great Recession. 

I don't buy into the fact that a dealer would have to put money into my trailer to service it before they sell it.  Washing it and packing the bearings is labor and its not like they have to hire anyone to come in special.  They have an existing workforce and their cost is simply the cost of doing business which they pay for every month. 

I also heard that I would get more for my trailer if I was looking to order a new 2011 12'LQ.  Seems no one wants to negotiate with me on a 10" LQ that's already in stock. 

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pinkmouse
Reg. Jan 2009
Posted 2010-07-21 4:14 PM (#122644 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 213
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Location: Virginia

I don't buy into the fact that a dealer would have to put money into my trailer to service it before they sell it.  Washing it and packing the bearings is labor and its not like they have to hire anyone to come in special

I absolutely cringe when I read ignorant statements like that.  They are paying their employees good money to work on the trailer - they could be working on something else.  Of course they should be compensated for the money they put into the trailer to make it presentable. 

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Tresvolte
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2010-07-21 4:45 PM (#122646 - in reply to #122643)
Subject: RE: Trading In




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Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Originally written by Hillview on 2010-07-21 3:57 PM

I talked to a dealer yesterday that said he's been having a record year so far.  He's selling more trailers now than before the Great Recession. 

I don't buy into the fact that a dealer would have to put money into my trailer to service it before they sell it.  Washing it and packing the bearings is labor and its not like they have to hire anyone to come in special.  They have an existing workforce and their cost is simply the cost of doing business which they pay for every month. 

I also heard that I would get more for my trailer if I was looking to order a new 2011 12'LQ.  Seems no one wants to negotiate with me on a 10" LQ that's already in stock. 

So because it's labor, it's free? I know that's not what you meant, but it is how it sounded. It is a cost of doing business. But it is also crazy to think that they can set any trailer on the lot with no additional costs. It is a cost of monthly business, but they have to sell trailers in order to cover that expense. And if they don't, that is where service comes in and helps cover it. If they don't pay for their service internally (even though no money actually changes hands), it makes no sense for their service department to touch a trailer that they own. They can make more money from outside trailers.

Also think about the liability if they don't pull your trailer into their shop to check it. Even though you know it's right, they don't know it until they check it. It would be a bad deal for a dealership to send a trailer out that they had never checked and have it run over someone a few miles down the road.

As far as dealers selling more now than they were before... Maybe your economy is better there in TN than it is here in OK because I have seen three dealerships close up here do to lack of sales.

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Duckman
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2010-07-21 4:54 PM (#122648 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 201
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I see new Platinum 3H with 8' LQ's like your Sundowner for under $40,000. I'm not sure how old your trailer is, I'm only guessing it's prbably 8-10 yrs old? I would think your 8-10 year old trailer can't be worth more than $25,000 retail and probably $20,000 trade in. If you paid $40,000 for yours 8-10 years ago it has cost you $2000-2500 per year to own it. I wish I could do that with an RV.
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Hillview
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2010-07-21 6:33 PM (#122650 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 195
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Location: PA

I think you've misunderstood me.   Servicing my trailer does not cause a dealer any incremental cost.  They already have staff on hand that is part of their monthly operating expense. 

My trailer is a 2006.

 

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pinkmouse
Reg. Jan 2009
Posted 2010-07-21 7:46 PM (#122654 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 213
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Location: Virginia

 Servicing my trailer does not cause a dealer any incremental cost.

It causes the dealer a loss of income.  Your lack of understanding on how a business works is just astounding.  The employees could be working on customer trailers which provides income that in turn covers their salary and benefits (plus all the other expenses associated with running a business).  Having those employees work on a trailer that may sit for months on their lot costs money that may never be recovered.

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genebob
Reg. Nov 2007
Posted 2010-07-21 8:52 PM (#122656 - in reply to #122643)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 714
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Location: Minnesota
Originally written by Hillview on 2010-07-21 3:57 PM

I talked to a dealer yesterday that said he's been having a record year so far.  He's selling more trailers now than before the Great Recession. 

I don't buy into the fact that a dealer would have to put money into my trailer to service it before they sell it.  Washing it and packing the bearings is labor and its not like they have to hire anyone to come in special.  They have an existing workforce and their cost is simply the cost of doing business which they pay for every month. 

I also heard that I would get more for my trailer if I was looking to order a new 2011 12'LQ.  Seems no one wants to negotiate with me on a 10" LQ that's already in stock. 

My point exactly. the existing work force needs to be paid even if they are not working on your trailer. COST OF DOING BUSINESS.
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Jaas
Reg. Mar 2009
Posted 2010-07-21 9:05 PM (#122657 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 83
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Does anyone else find it ironic that someone unhappy with their trade-in value elects to post about it on the very site that gives you an alternative?  Isn't that why horsetrailerworld.com was conceived?  Another option to trade-in, advertise nationwide and sell the trailer yourself.  Isn't that what we are all doing at this site? 

A dealer that doesn't want your used trailer unless they can turn a high profit.  Imagine that.  If the trailer is worth much more than what the dealers will allow on a trade, I would think selling that trailer on this site at a fair price would be a no brainer.

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Cool Dually
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2010-07-22 9:26 AM (#122664 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 6

Location: Texas border
I'm glad your dealer is having a record year because he's the only one. My best friend is a trailer and RV dealer and he says most dealers are struggling in this economy and have excess LQ trailer inventory from a couple years ago that they are still paying interest on. He said if he looks at a trade he has to make sure he can price it below market value to get it sold quickly, or it sits on the lot and he gets burned. Just because something is priced on here at a high price doesn't mean that's what it ends up selling for. There is a huge selection now and people are willing to deal, which knocks out the ones who insist on getting near retail for their trades or sales. I would guess you did not shop well when you made this purchase and paid more than your trailer was even worth at the time. You could have done much better with a brand that has excellent resale like a 4-Star, Elite, or Platinum trailer. Sundowners are overpriced when new and lose value fast and don't resell well because there are so many of them out there.

All you have to do is look at the multitude of pages of Sundowners with LQ's for sale on HTW right now, a lot of them have been looked at over 500 times and reduced and still won't sell. Buyers are afraid of the steel frame and problems down the line, so that further reduces value of a trade in.

The dealers you are talking to undoubtedly carry brands of new trailers they can get for cost that is more profitable to them than giving too much for a trade and making next to nothing. I would guess they are hoping you go somewhere else and really don't want your trade unless it's a great deal for them, which I can't blame them. They have a business to run and they know what they have to do to feed the families of their employees and themselves. Just the fact that no dealers are willing to negotiate should tell you something.

I'm sure you have a price in mind that you are positive a dealer could sell your trailer for, so why don't you pay for an ad here and list it at that price and see how many replys you get and how fast you can get it sold. I bet it won't sell until you have reduced it to a price well under what you beleive it's worth in the beginning. This way you will get a feel for what kind of market is out there. If it's a record year, like you said, then if your trailer is priced where you think it should be, then you should have no trouble selling it and have cash in hand to buy what you want immediately.

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ClaudiaIN
Reg. Feb 2009
Posted 2010-07-22 9:40 AM (#122666 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 184
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Location: Indiana

We hardly trade anything in- cars, etc.  

We usually sell them ourselves and then go buy what we want.   

The different between trade in value and you selling it yourself is always a pretty large amount.

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Paracadista
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2010-07-22 3:53 PM (#122679 - in reply to #122654)
Subject: RE: Trading In




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Location: centrally located amongst the "NUTS"
Originally written by pinkmouse on 2010-07-21 7:46 PM

 Servicing my trailer does not cause a dealer any incremental cost.

It causes the dealer a loss of income.  Your lack of understanding on how a business works is just astounding.  The employees could be working on customer trailers which provides income that in turn covers their salary and benefits (plus all the other expenses associated with running a business).  Having those employees work on a trailer that may sit for months on their lot costs money that may never be recovered.

 

That work will most likely wait until there is a mechanic with down time during his regular work week. Just as the staff that is paid to detail auto's and trailer trade in's, that "expense" is built into the amount paid on the trade.  The dealer is "losing" nothing, he would be doing the future owner of that trade a huge disservice and setting himself up for a web-forum tongue lashing for not inspecting (you have to repack bearings to properly inspect them) that trailer. Its just good business.

 

As for the OP, the "loss" you take on a trade is what it "cost" you to not have to sell it yourself, "cost of doing business".

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pinkmouse
Reg. Jan 2009
Posted 2010-07-22 4:47 PM (#122681 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 213
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Location: Virginia

he would be doing the future owner of that trade a huge disservice and setting himself up for a web-forum tongue lashing for not inspecting (you have to repack bearings to properly inspect them) that trailer. Its just good business.

Exactly where do I say or imply that a used trailer should not be inspected prior to sale???  My point is that it costs the dealer in income (and time) to take a trade-in - there ain't no free lunch.  The dealer must decide to pay his employees to work on the trailer.  Even if there are no customers, the employees could be doing maintenance/repairs around the shop.  In addition, the dealer will have $20K or more of capital tied up in that trailer that is sitting there taking up valuable space while all the time it is deteriorating and depreciating on his lot.  The dealer may have better uses for the money.  In today's economy, it is even more risky to take in used LQ trailers which is why they don't want to pay a lot for them.

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gcox
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2010-07-22 7:03 PM (#122688 - in reply to #122650)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Location: Sweetwater,TN. Exit 62 on I-75
Sent you a p.m.
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Paracadista
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2010-07-23 3:08 AM (#122704 - in reply to #122644)
Subject: RE: Trading In




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Location: centrally located amongst the "NUTS"
Originally written by pinkmouse on 2010-07-21 4:14 PM

I don't buy into the fact that a dealer would have to put money into my trailer to service it before they sell it.  Washing it and packing the bearings is labor and its not like they have to hire anyone to come in special

I absolutely cringe when I read ignorant statements like that.  They are paying their employees good money to work on the trailer - they could be working on something else.  Of course they should be compensated for the money they put into the trailer to make it presentable. 

You didnt! You stated that they should be reimbursed for doing the repair. Kind of like saying that the previous owner should pay you to fix your new-to-you used car, where in fact it is up to you to consider that when you make the offer to buy.  I guess that I disagree that the OP made an "ignorant" statement.

 

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pinkmouse
Reg. Jan 2009
Posted 2010-07-23 5:23 AM (#122706 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 213
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Location: Virginia

You stated that they should be reimbursed for doing the repair. Kind of like saying that the previous owner should pay you to fix your new-to-you used car, where in fact it is up to you to consider that when you make the offer to buy.

I never said they should be reimbursed by the previous owner.  I'm sure the cost figured into his low offer.  Again, my point is that nothing done to the trailer is 'free'.  The OP thinking that just because the employees are at work that it would cost the dealer nothing to work on the trailer is ignorant.

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Paracadista
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2010-07-23 6:18 AM (#122708 - in reply to #122706)
Subject: RE: Trading In




252525
Location: centrally located amongst the "NUTS"
Originally written by pinkmouse on 2010-07-23 5:23 AM

You stated that they should be reimbursed for doing the repair. Kind of like saying that the previous owner should pay you to fix your new-to-you used car, where in fact it is up to you to consider that when you make the offer to buy.

I never said they should be reimbursed by the previous owner.  I'm sure the cost figured into his low offer.  Again, my point is that nothing done to the trailer is 'free'.  The OP thinking that just because the employees are at work that it would cost the dealer nothing to work on the trailer is ignorant.

It could be implied, just as you took the liberty of implying the OP stated it would cost them nothing when they clearly stated the dealer would incur no cost above what they would already be paying in the normal cost of paying existing employees which I attempted to help clarify, to no avail.
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pinkmouse
Reg. Jan 2009
Posted 2010-07-23 7:52 AM (#122712 - in reply to #122571)
Subject: RE: Trading In


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Posts: 213
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Location: Virginia

It could be implied, just as you took the liberty of implying the OP stated it would cost them nothing when they clearly stated the dealer would incur no cost above what they would already be paying in the normal cost of paying existing employees which I attempted to help clarify, to no avail.

I think that what everyone is trying to say is that the dealer will not incur any additional salary expense above and beyond what he normally pays.  I totally agree with this.  What I do not agree with is that there is no additional cost to the dealer.  Salary expenses are just a subset of the total cost of running a business. 

This thread reminds me of a conversation I had a couple of weeks ago with a person who was lamenting that their mother's doctor was no longer taking medicaid/medicare patients.  I tried to explain that often the payments for service do not cover their costs.  The person then said that the doctor should just lower his prices!!  After a minute or two of this I realized the person had no clue how a business runs so I changed the subject as soon as I could.

So Paracadista, how's the weather out your way?



Edited by pinkmouse 2010-07-23 7:53 AM
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