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new truck

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rad111
Reg. Apr 2009
Posted 2010-02-06 8:23 AM (#116202)
Subject: new truck


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Posts: 3

I'm considering trading in my 2003 Ford F-250 it has the 6.0 Diesel, for a new 2010 Ford F-350 Diesel. I'm considering this because I have heard some really good news about the new 6.4 Diesel. I've only used my 2003 truck to pull my horse trailer which empty weighs about 5500 LBS, and only has 29000 miles on it and I never have had any problems with it. Also the 2003 is paid for, however I think I'm getting a good trade in value for my older truck. I was just wondering does anybody think this is a good idea?
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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2010-02-06 8:36 AM (#116203 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Location: Rocky Mount N.C.

Welcome to HTW... I would keep the truck you have and wait a little longer for the 2011's with the new "scorpion" diesel engine....

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/03/spied-new-ford-scorpion-diesel-underhood-photos.html

 http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-scorpion.html

 



Edited by retento 2010-02-06 8:39 AM
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dgeesaman
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-02-06 9:45 AM (#116207 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 92
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Location: Harrisburg, PA
The early 6.0s do not have a great reputation for reliability. While it's a lot of money and effort to sell/buy a truck, I would consider trading in _IF_ you're confident you're getting a good deal. Many 6.0s have been beaten up on resale value due to reputation. (Many have been trouble-free, but IMHO when towing horses you can never have too much reliability) If the truck needs major work it will be very expensive because they usually remove the entire cab to get to the whole engine.

The 6.4s on the whole have had good reliability. You will get lower fuel mileage due to the DPF/regen emissions feature unless you invest in aftermarket parts (void warranty) to change that out. (Chevy has this also, Dodge currently does not). Like the 6.0, major maintenance requires a cab-off. A 6.4l with a couple aftermarket changes might not be covered by warranty, but it's a heck of a setup.

The 6.7L "Scorpion" is a brand new engine design by Ford. It's got people pretty excited because Ford designed it with the truck chassis to be more serviceable. It will have the current emissions equipment plus a urea injection system that will need to be kept up.

With any modern diesel I would use a fuel additive. The changes in diesel fuel removing sulfur are making it harder on the fuel systems. Injector troubles do occasionally happen and the fuel additives help prevent issues for just a couple of bucks per tank. Also you MUST keep up with the filter changes - fuel filters, oil filters, air filter. I figure you're already aware of that.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2010-02-06 10:42 AM (#116209 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck



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Location: Northern Utah

I had one of the first 2003 6.0.  I put 90,000 miles on it with only minor probems. ( reflashes, VGT solinoid, ICP).

I am just hitting 100,000 on a 2006 6.0L. Just had my first problems with it and had to replace the FICM and internal high pressure oil leaks. Warranty covered the repair, but if I had paid for the repairs would have been $1300. If you are paying $500-$600 a month in monthly payments, That repair if I had paid for it was the same as a couple months payments. If you have a truck paid for, you can afford a some repair cost vs making payments.

If your 2003 has been trouble free. I suspect it will continue the same for the near future.  Yes there are some things that just wear out with age, regardless of mileage. You can expect to replace belts and tires that have just gotten old.

The new scorpian engine will not really be available to buy until about April. So give early adapters  a year to see if their are any problems. I'd probably hang onto your current truck another year. You are only averaging less 5,000 miles a year. It'll still be a low mileage truck a year from now and it's resale shouldn't change that much. Then you can decide if Ford did a good job on the engines. Besides I've never seen Ford offer any rebats or low interest on new models. A year from now, you find some buying incentatiives that you won't get on a new model this spring.



Edited by Painted Horse 2010-02-06 10:45 AM
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Spooler
Reg. Aug 2006
Posted 2010-02-06 11:59 AM (#116210 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 544
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Location: Claxton, Ga.

The 6.4 is a little better than the 6.0 trucks, in other words, it's still not that reliable. If you have to get a Ford I would wait and see how the new 6.7's do at least 6 months after they are released to the public. If you are not set on a Ford, Go get a new Dodge and be done with it.



Edited by Spooler 2010-02-06 12:00 PM
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headhunter
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2010-02-06 6:41 PM (#116226 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck



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I have a 2003 F350 with the 6.0 and went through the blown head gasket ordeal.  Yes its true the cab has to be pulled to repair the head gaskets, and yes it runs $5-6k.  We have another 6.0 at home and were advised to replace the OEM head bolts with aftermarket head studs before the head gasket blows, at a cost of $1000-1200.  So don't let the 6.0 engine scare you.  Just take care of it, and look into replacing the head bolts with head studs.  Talk to a reputable diesel speciality shop.  They'll know all about it. The rest of the truck is sound, and at least you know what you have. 
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2010-02-08 3:32 PM (#116270 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Location: Danielsville Georgia
Cummins or a Duramax.I like the Ford trucks but can't go there because of their engines.That includes their gas motors.
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hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2010-02-08 10:18 PM (#116291 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Location: Decatur, Texas

 



Edited by hogtownboss 2010-02-10 9:30 PM
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2010-02-09 4:20 AM (#116296 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Location: Danielsville Georgia
Issues with STOCK trucks hurt Ford BAD! To the tune of millions of dollars. Stop making them sound like OK vehicles when they weren't.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2010-02-09 8:48 AM (#116298 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck



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Location: Northern Utah

Hound dog

They all have some problems, Nobody has built the perfect truck.  My neighbor just paid $9000 to get a new cummins put in his dodge because the block cracked. It's a apparently a common problem on the cummins engine blocks that were built in Brazil. My nephew who works for me, just sold a Dodge Megacab and bought a GM, because he got tired of the Dodge being in the shop almost every month. Mostly electronics and transmission issues. Another neighbor had to take his new toyota in and have the front differential rebuilt. Because he put chains on his front tires during hunting season. Apparently the Toyotas are not built tough enough to handle the extra stress of chains on the tires. Something we do regularly with the domestic trucks.

I've put a couple hundred thousand miles on the two 6.0L engines I've owned with very minor problems. Most of those miles with either a 4h GN or some sort of equipment trailer hauling skidloaders or Mini Excavators. A good friend of mine runs heavy equipment and his chase around trucks all have the powerstroke engines and have held up well.  And I know his workers are hard on equipment. Bottom line there are a lot of folks getting their money's worth out of the 6.0L Powerstrokes. And yes there are a few that have had problems just like any other brand of truck.

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2010-02-09 8:53 AM (#116299 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 1205
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Location: Danielsville Georgia
A few? Get your head out of the sand.Only a FEW Toyotas under a recall also.
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adeberti
Reg. May 2007
Posted 2010-02-09 11:03 AM (#116303 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 147
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Location: santa clara, ca
i would say wait for the 2011 to come out and there should be good incentives ont he '10 leftovers(altough in very limited quantities)i think your 2003 weighs more than 5500lbs: my 05 F350 Crewcab 4x4 diesel shortbed is about 8K with a shell at the local recycling scales
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headhunter
Reg. Oct 2004
Posted 2010-02-09 11:34 AM (#116305 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck



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Posts: 736
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Location: Western WA
I think 5500 lbs is the trailer weight.
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hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2010-02-09 12:54 PM (#116309 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 1351
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Location: Decatur, Texas

 



Edited by hogtownboss 2010-02-10 9:31 PM
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2010-02-09 1:03 PM (#116310 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Location: Danielsville Georgia
Your replys are always that the 6.0 was a pretty decent truck.Well your wrong.Thats all.I think its because you buy and sell so many used ones.Thats fine,but don't push what was a pretty bad on the consumer as there is always a bad egg or two once a while.The the exception is just the opposite for the 6.0.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2010-02-09 2:37 PM (#116315 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck



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Location: Northern Utah

Let me put some numbers to this to put it in perspective.  It was reported that Ford produced an average of 29,000 Powerstroke engines per month during the production run of the 6.0L engine.  That equals more than 1.5 million 6.0L engines.  It has been reported that Ford bought back 500 trucks because of warranty issues. ( 2003 -2004 models)

"There were many running changes to the engine and in the 2006 year model the 6.0 had the lowest rate of warranty claims across the board for Ford Motor Company when compared to all of Ford's gas and diesel engines"

"The 6.0 liter Power Stroke was featured as one of Ward's 10 best engines for 2003 in their annual top 10 review."

From a leading Diesel Tech Magazine  "The 6.0L Ford Power Stroke engine suffers from one of the worst reputations in the diesel industry--a reputation that quite frankly we don't think it deserves, and one we're looking to improve."

From the Center for Auto Safety "Power Stroke has generated more complaints than rival diesels simply because more diesel Fords are on the road." and  "The company also has fielded more than 12,000 consumer complaints, according to Ford's internal warranty data.   12,000 complaints sounds like a lot but compared to 1.5 million engines. Thats less than 1% of all 6.0L engines sold. 

From Big 3 Diesel.  "Stock torque to yield (TTY) head bolts proved to be a weak link. The overall engine design is good, though the emissions equipment proved to cause issues in some applications. Ford Power Stroke continues to outsell Cummins & Duramax. Overall a strong performer with good fuel economy."

 So bottom line is,  YES Ford had some probems with the 6.0L  Did every owner have a problem? No  Most probems revolved around engines that had been chipped, that didn't use the right oil, that didn't keep the air filters cleaned and suffered chipped or damaged turbo fan blades.  I'm not going to suggest that the 6.0L was a perfect engine. But most people found it did the job as well as the competition. As I said in my personal experience with over 200,000 miles of 6.0L use. I can't complain.

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24cindy24
Reg. Feb 2010
Posted 2010-02-09 3:00 PM (#116317 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck



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Posts: 5

Location: Texas
Hounddog,

I totally agree with you... Forget those Fords. I have a friend that is a mechanic and he will be the first one to tell you to stay away from a ford.

If you are only using the truck for mostly pulling then you need to decide if you want a standard or automatic. If you can drive a standard then go with a Dodge Cummins... It pulls awesome and pulling our 3h gn with 8ft shortwall with 3 horses in we can get about 20 mpg. Now if you prefer the automatic the I would greatly suggest going with the Allison transmission in the Chevy's.

In my OPINION... I would not buy a ford...My mother even works for a ford dealership but I still would not buy one. Way to many problems... Plus you will get way more power out of the dodge or chevy!
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hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2010-02-09 3:25 PM (#116320 - in reply to #116310)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 1351
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Location: Decatur, Texas

 

 



Edited by hogtownboss 2010-02-10 9:32 PM
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retento
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2010-02-09 4:21 PM (#116327 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 3802
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Location: Rocky Mount N.C.

The 6.0 worked pretty good when they were used for what they were disigned for....  

The economical International VT 365 diesel engine is engineered to maximize cost efficiency with features that optimize performance, reduce emissions and enhance driveability, fuel economy, reliability and serviceability. Available as the exclusive engine for the International 4200, the VT 365 brings real value to your operation. Ratings from 175 to 230 hp and 460-620 lb-ft of torque.
Horsepower was rated at 2600 RPM, not 3000+ at it was in the Super Duty's.. These Navistar trucks came from the factory with an engine coolant filter. I don't think Ford thought that was necessary.... They should have spent that extra 20 bucks, it would have saved them alot of hate and discontent.


Specifications

Engine TypeDiesel 4-Cycle
ConfigurationV8
Displacement365 cu in (6.0 liters)
Bore and Stroke3.74 x 4.134 in (95 x 105 mm)
Compression Ratio18:0:1
AspirationEVRTâ„¢ Turbocharged
Combustion SystemDirect Injection
Cooling System Capacity (engine only) 10.8 qt (10.2 liters)
Lubricating System Capacity19 qt (18 liters)
Total Engine Weight1,062 lb (482 kg)


Performance Data
Rated/Peak hp175200215230
Rated rpm2600260026002600
Governed Speed rpm2800280028002800
Peak Torque (lb-ft)460520540620
Peak Torque rpm1400140014001400
Peak hp rpm2600260026002600
Clutch Engagement Torque@ 800 rpm340340340340


Preventative Maintenance Intervals
Change Engine Oil, Replace Oil Filter10,000 mi (16,093 km)/350 hrs fuel/ 1,500 gallons of fuel
Replace Fuel Filter20,000 mi (32,187 km)
Replace Coolant300,000 mi (482,803 km)* / 5 yrs/ 12,000 hrs
Valve Lash AdjustmentNot Required
*Factory fill is with Texaco Extended Life Coolant using Organic Acid Technology (OAT).



Edited by retento 2010-02-09 4:23 PM
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hogtownboss
Reg. Sep 2008
Posted 2010-02-09 9:21 PM (#116342 - in reply to #116327)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 1351
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Location: Decatur, Texas

 



Edited by hogtownboss 2010-02-10 9:29 PM
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-02-09 9:56 PM (#116343 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Location: western PA

HTB

I think a lot of the diagnosis difficulties with diesel problems is that many of us, unlike you, are not diesel mechanics. We are at the mercy of dealership mechanics, who may or may not be competent. They are instructed to effect repairs in ways that are most beneficial to their dealership, not the customer. Most of us are ill prepared to effect any major repairs or know diesel trouble shooting.  

No brand is perfect as PH has well documented. And as he has shown, no particular engine is an absolute boat anchor. This forum is about trucks and trailers and with guidance, we can probably get through some of the less major problems.

The newer the vehicles, the more complex the electricals and systems. Unless a mechanic has factory training and the appropriate diagnosis equipment, there is no way most problems can be fixed by word of mouth. Our ownership of these vehicles will be more difficult in the future; more maintenance, more complex systems that can fail, and more expensive driving costs. I think this will hold true for each of the major players.

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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2010-02-10 2:23 AM (#116345 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 1205
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Location: Danielsville Georgia
Very few care about mods.The Ford 6.0s were falling apart bone stock. I interviewed technicians leaving Ford stores because of the amount of Ford 6.0s coming in for repair.They got sick of dealing with them pretty quick.
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dgeesaman
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2010-02-10 5:58 AM (#116346 - in reply to #116345)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 92
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Location: Harrisburg, PA
Originally written by hounddog on 2010-02-10 2:23 AM

Very few care about mods.The Ford 6.0s were falling apart bone stock. I interviewed technicians leaving Ford stores because of the amount of Ford 6.0s coming in for repair.They got sick of dealing with them pretty quick.


I'll bet a good number of those trucks were run with bolt-on mods and chips that were "reverted" back to stock before sputtering into the dealership. Some were really bone stock. Nobody will ever know. One thing that does work well is when buying a used Ford, request an OASIS report that shows you the warranty work.

Personally, I don't think the 6.0 is the strongest option out there. But it's not trash - many of them run a very long time. Duramax/Allison don't take a lot of pushing to develop transmission problems. Some of the Duramax's had major injector issues.

Cummins has it's own set of potential issues, although I like that the Cummins requires less stock emissions equipment than the others.

The reality here is that diesel trucks for the 3/4 and 1 ton markets are changing faster than ever before. The machines are getting more complicated, harder to service (both in training and actual service effort), and the designs are changing faster than before. As a machinery designer myself, I can tell you it's just not possible to design for low cost, reliability, and performance and get it right in the first model year. All of the manufacturers are struggling.

2010 is another round of upping the ante. More changes, more added cost, more shaking of the reliability tree. No way to know but to watch and wait.
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hounddog
Reg. Dec 2005
Posted 2010-02-10 7:14 AM (#116348 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck


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Posts: 1205
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Location: Danielsville Georgia
There were thousand of 6.0s flooding the shops.I can't believe they were running all running mods.Most owners have no clue or care about such.Very few owners even know about forums and such.Some owners had as many as three buybacks before either trading off or getting there money back.I have seen low mileage 6.0s with every accessible nut and bolt under the hood and under the truck marked with paint for proof of what had been disassembled or not.Any way they were a poor product that is now dead.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2010-02-10 7:25 AM (#116350 - in reply to #116202)
Subject: RE: new truck



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Location: Northern Utah

If somebody was looking to buy a used truck, I would not tell them to go look specifically for a 2003 6.0L.

But the question that Rad asked was whether  she should keep the the 2003 truck she already OWNs  or run away from it and buy a new truck.

Hers is a low mileage 6.0L, I still believe if it's done the job, and she continues to take care of the maintenance, She is better off to keep it another year and see what shakes out in the new engines that are coming out. What probems that engine has are well known today. Most of the Ford service managers know right where to start looking when a problem is brought in. Both ford and the aftermarket have a wide variety of solutions to fix most of the problems. If they occur.

 

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