Posted 2008-09-16 7:20 PM (#91604 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Regular
Posts: 58
Location: Foley, MO
Seems to me it would be a matter of economy for the most part. The all-aluminum trailers are lighter and if you are planning on traveling a lot with your trailer, an aluminum will save you fuel dollars in the long run.
The aluminum/steel skin trailers are a bit less expensive, but heavier. You will have some issues with corrosion in the future, but if you stay ahead of it, you'll get many years of use out of it.
Depending on what you can afford, really. I've seen some really nice aluminum/steel LQ trailers that are comparable to all aluminum.
Posted 2008-09-16 9:39 PM (#91614 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA
Steel rusts, aluminum corrodes, albeit slower than the steel rusts. In the NE rust belt, an aluminum trailer is longer lasting, and involves much less maintenance to remain intact. IN MY AREA, an all aluminum trailer is the one preferred by most owners.
I have had trailers of both metals. All of our steel trailers required a great deal of maintenance and repainting. Now that we've finally been able to obtain the two aluminum trailers we've wanted, we have life time investments that require only a fraction of the work to maintain. It took us a long time to get these trailers, and we greatly enjoy them with every usage. It's a pleasure to look at them and not see a ring of paint and rust, laying on the ground, mimicking the trailer's outline. We own only aluminum now, and would not consider another all steel or steel framed trailer.
Steel trailer owners in the rust free areas enjoy their quality products with few issues. It depends where you live, what you want and what you're willing to spend.
Posted 2008-09-17 6:04 AM (#91628 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Veteran
Posts: 112
Location: Bow, NH
I find it interesting that Sundowner, a manufacturer who has enjoyed a great reputation for years, has quietly dropped the steel frame alum skin from the lineup. They now only offer all alum trailers. Makes one think....
Posted 2008-09-17 9:32 AM (#91642 - in reply to #91628) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Originally written by perk2754 on 2008-09-17 7:04 AM
I find it interesting that Sundowner, a manufacturer who has enjoyed a great reputation for years, has quietly dropped the steel frame alum skin from the lineup. They now only offer all alum trailers. Makes one think....
Jeff, where you getting your info? They still list a 727, 728, 737 and a 777 slant and straight load on their website, I believe they are steel frame trailers. Don't see the 747 or 767 head to head listed anymore. The 747 and the 767 was/is a steel frame trailer.
Posted 2008-09-17 11:54 AM (#91648 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Elite Veteran
Posts: 736
Location: Western WA
I don't buy the better fuel economy argument with a lighter aluminum trailer. I replaced my non-LQ trailer with a LQ trailer, which ended up being nearly 2x the weight of the non-LQ trailer. Got the exact same mileage pulling either trailer.
Weight is a factor in relation to the capacity of the towing rig, but my experience shows that weight doesn't have that much of an effect on fuel economy.
Posted 2008-09-17 2:11 PM (#91654 - in reply to #91642) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Originally written by retento on 2008-09-17 9:32 AM
Originally written by perk2754 on 2008-09-17 7:04 AM
I find it interesting that Sundowner, a manufacturer who has enjoyed a great reputation for years, has quietly dropped the steel frame alum skin from the lineup. They now only offer all alum trailers. Makes one think....
Jeff, where you getting your info? They still list a 727, 728, 737 and a 777 slant and straight load on their website, I believe they are steel frame trailers. Don't see the 747 or 767 head to head listed anymore. The 747 and the 767 was/is a steel frame trailer.
Previous post says they went back to all aluminum.
I remember that post well!! I have not seen anything from "Sundowner" that says that they have gone to all aluminum, on all their models.... It's alway what "THEY" say.... Whoever "THEY" are... maybe it's someone in a big old room looking down on the qwhole world starting rumors and then watching everyone fuss and argue!!! Makes you wonder where Charles Phillips with five posts on this site got his priviliged info on 01-24-2008!! That's the only place I've read this, other than what people have posted afterwards about what "THEY" have said!
Posted 2008-09-17 2:56 PM (#91658 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Member
Posts: 35
Location: hartfield, va 23071
it seems like most of the trailers that have a steel frame are what they call low end trailers except sundowner. I know that they are priced like a high end trailer but have a steel frame and aluminun skin like some of the mid range trailer what makes them different and are all the trailers now all aluminun or are some are steel frame. I never knew until 6 months are that they where steel frame because always touted to be a high end like a 4 star.
Posted 2008-09-17 2:56 PM (#91659 - in reply to #91656) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
The only reason that I put any faith in that one was because 3yrhitch2bumper posted it too. Not trying to start an argument. Nothing on Sundowner's website ever said anything about steel frame, all aluminum, or anything. Not picking on Sundowner either. I was just stating maybe that is where he got his info.
Posted 2008-09-17 4:51 PM (#91665 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Expert
Posts: 1391
Location: North of Detroit, MI
Here's my skinny on it. 3H BP and smaller - there's not too much weight difference because it takes more alum to create the same strength as steel.
With a 3H GN and larger ... the alum begins to enter the total weight. So with a 4H w/LQ... Alum makes a difference in weight over steel.
Alum skin is nice to have - it's lighter and lasts longer. It is also a brittle metal in that it will shred and is more likely to break in accidents; where as steel will dent and fold and stretch somewhat.
Alum is more difficult to have repaired as it takes special welding equipment and technique.
Alum STILL requires cleaning - just like steel.
It's standard now to use special liners and gaskets between steel and alum to prevent multi-metal contact and the ensuing corrosion.
My "ideal" trailer would be rumber or werm flooring over steel frame. Galvanealed steel interior for horse area, alum exterior. Fiberglass roof.
Posted 2008-09-18 7:53 AM (#91702 - in reply to #91665) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA
Alum skin is nice to have - it's lighter and lasts longer. It is also a brittle metal in that it will shred and is more likely to break in accidents; where as steel will dent and fold and stretch somewhat.
Alum is more difficult to have repaired as it takes special welding equipment and technique.
Aluminum, like many other alloys is blended into a product that suits the needs of the consumer. It is available in many "series" that allows usages in the kitchen, boat building, aerospace, automotive and construction industries. Its hardness ranges from a very soft and malleable product, to a hard rigid structure.
An aircraft is subject to many stresses, and the aluminum has to be able to stretch, flex and support tremendous weights without any failures. Boat hulls and structures take a tremendous amount of beating, in their transportation and usage. Dump truck bodies routinely have large heavy objects dumped into them, tons at a time. Tractor trailer, trailer frames have to support tens of tons of weight, under every type of usage. The cylinder temperatures and pressures of an automobile engine are extreem, and yet they are built to last hundreds of thousands of miles.
Aluminum routinely serves all of these usages competently, without difficulty. Using the proper type for its intended purpose is the key. If an aircraft skin and structure were not able to routinely flex without cracking and shredding, it would be falling from the sky. Boats would be sinking, dump truck loads would be scattered over the interstates, trailers would be parked, broken in half.
Any competently trained welder can effect an aluminum weld, using the same professional equipment he uses on steel. It does take more skill and experience than a back yard first timer might have.
Aluminum is a tough alloy. It's been around a long time and used successfully for many purposes. Don't be afraid of it; it will serve you well.
Posted 2008-09-18 8:16 AM (#91705 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Veteran
Posts: 112
Location: Bow, NH
retento; I got my information from 3 different Sundowner dealers in 3 different states. As of somtime in 2008 Sundowners are now all aluminum. Model numbers have not changed. I would suggest that if you would like verification you call various Sundowner dealers and ask them. If I am mistaken I stand humbly before the masses on HTW. I do not subscribe to the "they said" theory of passing on information. I like to have concrete evidence and I believe verification by 3 different dealers is sufficient. As I said before though, if I passed on erroneous information I am sorry.
Posted 2008-09-18 9:23 AM (#91709 - in reply to #91705) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Originally written by perk2754 on 2008-09-18 9:16 AM
retento; I got my information from 3 different Sundowner dealers in 3 different states. As of somtime in 2008 Sundowners are now all aluminum. Model numbers have not changed. I would suggest that if you would like verification you call various Sundowner dealers and ask them. If I am mistaken I stand humbly before the masses on HTW. I do not subscribe to the "they said" theory of passing on information. I like to have concrete evidence and I believe verification by 3 different dealers is sufficient. As I said before though, if I passed on erroneous information I am sorry.
I see what you're saying, BUT. I don't have alot of faith in some of these trailer dealers (salesmen/women)... Had one tell me three years ago that .."All of the Sundowner trailers are all aluminum, they don't build a steel frame trailer" That was in 2005. I myself don't care if they build them out of Play-Doh and KL93, if that works and it's what will sell and hold up to the abuses of livestock, then go for it.... I'm just saying that I've never seen a Sundowner publication-advertisement, that stated that they were only building the all aluminum trailer like that of the 761, 725, 710 etc. The trailers with the double DOT tape stripes on them. The steel frame trailers had a single tape stripe.
Posted 2008-09-18 1:36 PM (#91730 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Veteran
Posts: 112
Location: Bow, NH
Okay, I just got off of the phone with "someone" a corporate Sundowner who verified that on or about January 1, 2008, Sundowner went to all aluminum. Sorry, I know the name of the person at Sundowner but they asked that I not use thier name so I will have to use "someone". So, if you believe what the corporate folks are saying Sundowners manufactured after January 2008 are all aluminum. If you don't believe the corporate folks, well, I don't know how to convince you.
Posted 2008-09-18 3:29 PM (#91733 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Expert
Posts: 1391
Location: North of Detroit, MI
Gard... I accept all that you said. However... a competent welder ... is not so easy to find that can ALSO address the specifics of a horse trailer; i.e., no rough welds, strength etc.
also you wrote:
Aluminum is a tough alloy. It's been around a long time and used successfully for many purposes. Don't be afraid of it; it will serve you well.
Yes. So why are not automobiles made out of alum? The thickness of alum needed for the same strength (and flexibility if you will) increases the weight of the object.
Regardless. Having seen the results of a 950 pound mare that kicked through a double-alum, rubber lined, insulated trailer wall of a VERY top of heap horse trailer leaves me with my fondness for steel interiors. Especially when I had a similar situation with a DIFFERENT 1000 pound mare that went bonkers in my steel walled trailer. Leaving it dented but not punctured.
Posted 2008-09-18 4:35 PM (#91740 - in reply to #91733) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Expert
Posts: 5870
Location: western PA
Originally written by gabz on 2008-09-18 4:29 PM
So why are not automobiles made out of alum?
They are, Many panels of high end European automobiles are aluminum. Until the advent of composites, aluminum was the common material of race vehicles. Aluminum is more expensive than steel, and the bean counters are loath to spend a penny more than necessary, to fabricate a low end vehicle. Body panels, suspension components, engine blocks, radiators and accessories are all commonly constructed of aluminum.
The thickness of alum needed for the same strength (and flexibility if you will) increases the weight of the object.
As compared to what? If the necessary strength of an aircraft component were fabricated in steel, it would never get off the ground.
Regardless. Having seen the results of a 950 pound mare that kicked through a double-alum, rubber lined, insulated trailer wall of a VERY top of heap horse trailer leaves me with my fondness for steel interiors. Especially when I had a similar situation with a DIFFERENT 1000 pound mare that went bonkers in my steel walled trailer. Leaving it dented but notpunctured.
How thick was the aluminum sheeting used on the trailer? Some of the "Lite" trailers only have skins of fifty thousandths or less. Better built trailers have increasingly thicker skins. In addition, what was the wall stud thickness? 1", 1 1/2", thicker? Have you routinely seen holes in the sides of well built trailers that have enjoyed good reputations?
If a trailer is built like a beverage can, to save weight and the manufacturer money, it will not be long lived. If it is competently constructed as some of the higher end trailers are, it will be durable and survive the wear and tear of equine travels.
You can't blame the materials for the sins of the manufacturer. If he skimps and uses lighter or improper materials, poor engineering, workmanship and undersized components, you will have a troublesome ownership, regardless of what material your trailer is constructed.
Posted 2008-09-19 8:31 AM (#91753 - in reply to #91748) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Elite Veteran
Posts: 681
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Ya'll are scaring me!!! I had planned to order a new Sundowner 2H BP in the spring.. Earlier if i sell my existing one...Since I was under the impression that this was one of the top-of-the-line manufacturers, I was planning on custom ordering it to my needs, thinking it would (probably) be the last trailer that I ever own..... Now I'm not so sure that I should do that.. After reading this blog, i zipped off a note to the salesman that I've been talking to and asked about the alum or steel frame/components of Sundowners..... What are some of the better aluminum trailer manufacturers?
I've heard 4 star mentioned already, what are some of the others? I was under the impression that 4 star, bloomer, C&C, Exiss, Platinum and Sundowner were considered the better trailers.. Am I wrong?
Posted 2008-09-19 9:11 AM (#91756 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
Expert
Posts: 3802
Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
You can shop around and look at other brands, alot of good trailers out there.... You just got to decide what you really want or need. Alot of good used one, two and three year old trailers on this site alone, the used route will save you alot of $$$$..... Or, you could go ahead and order your Sundowner just the way you want it. I'm sure you would be happy with it. Order everything you'll think you want on it, it's cheaper to do it now than to try to add bits and pieces to it later on. Order the extras up front and they can be "engineered into the trailer", before hand, and as it's being built. Good luck with your hunt!!
Posted 2008-09-19 10:31 AM (#91760 - in reply to #91602) Subject: RE: all aluminum va steel frame
New User
Posts: 2
Location: sandusky, ohio
The modulus of elasticity of Aluminum is 10.2 lbs per sq in as opposed to nickel steel, which has a modulus of elasticity of 29.0 lbs per sq in. This means that aluminum, with all its benefits of weight savings, has approx. 1/3 the strength and "memory" of steel. In a nut shell if you overload your trailer and the frame bends, the aluminum is less likely to retain its original shape. We at Pegasus Vans and Trailers will only use steel frames for that reason. We build a horse trailer that will last and take the abuse that we have all given them at one time or another. We are just a small company but our trailers have been and are as good as any in strength on long lasting qualities. With the weight that most people put in their trailers we strongly suggest a steel frame in your trailer.