Posted 2008-08-07 11:43 AM (#89204) Subject: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
Thanks to the members that helped with my tire questions.
One last thing before I go spending bucks on new tires and wheels just to see it the tire dealers are blowing smoke or not.
They are telling me that it is not a good idea to run any tires and wheels at the max. weight cap... ie:if the trailer has a gross axle weight of 14-k, that I really need to get tires and wheels that are rated closer to 15-k and also told me to keep in mind that if I really up the tire/wheel rating like going to a 17.5 that I would inturn be causing more stress on the axles and sups. system. Does this make any sence?
Posted 2008-08-07 1:11 PM (#89212 - in reply to #89204) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383 Location: Texas
If the tires can't handle their max rating then they should be rated lower. It's also not going to hurt to have tires that can handle more than the max that will be on them. 17.5's shouldn't cause more stress on anything, they really aren't much taller than a 16, (there are a lot of different heights on 16's). My large trailer has 17.5's on it but 16's were also an option when we were deciding what we wanted (they would have been at their max)....... I opted for the heavier commercial type tire that I hoped would cause fewer problems (so far so good).
Now that I've gone back read your initial post I would say you need the 17.5's.... and quite possibly heavier axles. Being close to the max weight for the tires is one thing but being over is another.
Posted 2008-08-07 1:38 PM (#89215 - in reply to #89204) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
Like Greyhorse said, If the tires are rated for a number, you should be able to run at that number. Lets take your engine for example. If your car's engine has a 6000rpm redline and you run it a 5800rpm ALL the time. Will it wear out faster than the same engine that is run at 2500 rpm most of the time with the occassional 5800 rpm spurt? I suggest yes. The closer to push things to their max, the more wear and tear you will sustain and the shorter the life cycle. So back to your tires. If they are rated for 15,000lbs and you run them at 15,000 lbs, you should be safe. But will the tires give you 50,000 miles or 35,000miles of wear? There is a trade off for everything.
As far as the suspension. Will it matter if you run tires rated for more than the axle/suspension? No. You can run tires rated for 15,000lbs on axles rated for 14,000lbs. It won't affect your axles/suspension. But if you have a trailer that weighs 15,000lbs on a axle rated at 14,000lbs, (No matter what tire) you are overstressing the axle/suspension.
Each component has a rating that it was designed for. You combine multiple componenets and the max rating you get will be the weakest component. You don't make an axle stronger by putting beefier tires on it. Luckily for you most of the major components are rated as an assembly. You don't have to calculate how much weight each lug nut will hold and then add all the lug nuts together. Or how much weight each bearing will carry, or how much weight each weld that attaches the axle to the trailer frame. The maker of the axle has done this work for you. They tell you this axle will support say 7000lbs per axle. You just add up how many axles you have times the rating of the axle ( Two axles x 7000lbs = a total of 14,000). And make sure the tires and wheels installed on the axles will support as much or more weight than the axle.
All these components together make up a system. If you overload the system, you will experience excess wear and early failure of the various componenets.
So your tire dealer telling you that by upgrading the tires to 17.5" you will cause more stress on the axles, he is really saying is that your tires and suspension were BOTH the weak link. By fixing the problems with the tires, you still have the problem with suspension.
Posted 2008-08-07 2:41 PM (#89219 - in reply to #89215) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
Now you are talking with something I know about! (engines)
That is what I am worried about, when I haul 4 horses and ready to hit the road I am running anywhere form 14,600 lbs to 15,300 lbs on the axles. And this is every weekend deal, not just a couple of times a year.
That is the point the tire dealer is trying to make clear to me. I can put whatever I want on the ground as far as tires and wheels go (heavy 16's or even 17.5") but I will be moving the stress points toward the axles, mounting hardware then to the frame and so on.
Posted 2008-08-07 4:57 PM (#89231 - in reply to #89204) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
You have to know how the ratings were effected. Were they chosen after a successful run of 10K miles? 20K? , 50 K? Under what conditions? Smooth roads? interstates? Dirt and gravel? What temperature extremes?
Any component run at its maximum rated capacity, will not have as long a life span, as one that has a larger reserve capacity and is run at a smaller percentage of its capacity. If you are consistently running at 13K#, buy axles for 15K#. The same for all other components, engines, axles, transmission coolers etc.
Posted 2008-08-08 1:19 PM (#89283 - in reply to #89241) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
GCVW?? I guess you are talking about the total groos weight of the trailer it self, not hooked o the truck?
If so, the plate on the trailer shows 18,667lbs and I had it checked at a CAT scale and the actual wieght with out the waste water tanks full and our avg. horses we was at 18,8 and so change! The axle weight call for 14-k and we was at 14,600! These was done with in 15 mins apart on the same scale!
Posted 2008-08-08 2:20 PM (#89298 - in reply to #89231) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
OMG gard, now you got me totally lost!
Let me try this, the time we had the blow out the better half was on a large 2 lane SMOOTH road, running 55 mph, dry weather temps in the 70's just before lunch and at that time she was hauling 2 horses and loaded for a weekend trail challenge so the trailer only had right at 12/13-k-lbs on the axles!. She said when the tire blew out it felt like the trailer came off the ground!
Posted 2008-08-08 5:20 PM (#89323 - in reply to #89298) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Originally written by c.will_09 on 2008-08-08 3:20 PM
OMG gard, now you got me totally lost!
Let me try this, the time we had the blow out the better half was on a large 2 lane SMOOTH road, running 55 mph, dry weather temps in the 70's just before lunch and at that time she was hauling 2 horses and loaded for a weekend trail challenge so the trailer only had right at 12/13-k-lbs on the axles!. She said when the tire blew out it felt like the trailer came off the ground!
Under those conditions, you should not have had any problems if the tire pressures were correct and they were not overloaded.
I've never had a trailer tire blow out, but last year I had one let go on the front of my truck. It felt like I hit a railroad tie, and bounced my front end in the air, with enough force to rip out my auxiliary gauge panel from the pillar. We jackknifed twice and were lucky enough not to be killed.
When my truck was repaired, the first thing I did was to purchase a different brand of tires and got rid of the Firestone Steelex junk.
Posted 2008-08-08 5:47 PM (#89328 - in reply to #89323) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
That is correct, at that time this trailer was under the groos axle weight. But what I was told was since we have run this trailer with 4 horses and have been actually "over loaded" on the axles and wheels and tires that this was the day for that tire to go. But was also told that if I had the correct rated tire and wheels that this might not have happened!
Posted 2008-08-08 7:05 PM (#89335 - in reply to #89204) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Member
Posts: 22
Location: 03303
When you're running at or near maximum weights, it becomes a little bit more complicated to figure out whether you are safe on each axle. Assuming your trailer is perfectly balanced, then the weight distribution will be apportioned correctly between the hook up and the two axles. In other words, assuming that your trailer and load equal a maximum of 10,000 pounds (aiming for ease of math here). Weight on the pin is 10% (this can vary with trailer design), which means 1,000 pounds should be on the pin. This means each axle is carrying 4,500 pounds (total of 9,000#), which is the rating of each axle. Make sense so far?
However, when you loaded the trailer, let's say that you made it nose heavy. You stuck too much stuff in the nose of your trailer. The result could be that you're pin weighs in at 2,000 pounds, your front axle weighs in at 4,500 pounds, and your back axle weighs in at 3,500 pounds. Notice that we haven't exceeded the weight limit on each axle, but we may have exceeded the weight limit on the truck.
Instead of being nose heavy, you can also be tail heavy. You might have 500 pounds on the pin, 4,500 pounds on the front axle, and 5,000 pounds on the rear axle. Notice that we have not exceeded the maximum weight on the trailer, but we have exceeded the weight limit on the rear axle. This is why weight on the axles is so important.
Both of these conditions could effect the handling of your rig. But if you have a stable truck and trailer combo, it might not. The closer you are to your maximum weight, however, the closer each axle and the pin come to exceeding their weight while not exceeding the maximum weight of the trailer. By the way, you can have problems side to side as well with tire maximum weight issues, but that's less likely.
Are we having fun yet?
Now remember that the maximum weight rating has a significant safety margin.
But as you're driving down the road, you have a complicating issue that means your weight goes into the danger zone. As your trailer travels, it goes up and down, and also hits bumps. Each effects the maximum weight loads for a brief instance. To give you an idea of how much your vertical travel can effect weight, use your household scale. Standing on it, bounce up and down, seeing how your weight changes. Your trailer does the same thing and going over big bumps can cause a load to go up, and then come down. Coming down enters into the safety zone (that's why they have it). However, the weight coming down can exceed the axle's ability to handle it, resulting in a bent axle.
Hitting bumps can also effect your axle. Each time you hit a bump, the axle retracts from the bump. This can bend an axle on either end.
Again, the closer you are to the maximum weight, the more likely this is to happen. But this is effected by your driving style and can be compensated for to some extent.
Posted 2008-08-08 10:09 PM (#89342 - in reply to #89335) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
So that is why "EVERYONE" is telling me that I need heavier axle as well as tires and wheels. Because 90% of the time we are hauling and running at 14,600lbs or better axle weight everytime we haul all 4 horses, the other 10% we are only hauling 2 or 3 at a time.
Now give me some bad news! Is there anything else that could happen other than bending an axle? ie: frame, mounting hardware???
I do know that after we had the blow out, that not only damaged the fender and running board we notice that the outside skin around the mangers has cracks around the wheel opening that was not there before and the side of the trailer behind the axle has a bow in the outer skin.
Posted 2008-08-09 9:54 AM (#89371 - in reply to #89342) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Originally written by c.will_09 on 2008-08-08 11:09 PM
I do know that after we had the blow out, that not only damaged the fender and running board we notice that the outside skin around the mangers has cracks around the wheel opening that was not there before and the side of the trailer behind the axle has a bow in the outer skin.
If these cracks and bowing occurred only after your blowout, I would have your frame checked for alignment and straightness. Bowed panels and new cracks suggest the frame was unusually stressed, and may have suffered some unseen damage.
Posted 2008-08-09 1:10 PM (#89387 - in reply to #89371) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Member
Posts: 22
Location: 03303
So that is why "EVERYONE" is telling me that I need heavier axle as well as tires and wheels. Because 90% of the time we are hauling and running at 14,600lbs or better axle weight everytime we haul all 4 horses, the other 10% we are only hauling 2 or 3 at a time.
If you're scaling 14.6k on the axles, then you need axles and tires based around 15k (always round up). However, you really need to scale all of the axles on your truck and trailer. Take your truck to the nearest truck stop with a scale, without the trailer, but otherwise loaded, including all passengers. Fill the truck with fuel and then place on scale. You want the weight of front axle and rear axle and total truck weight.
Now go back home and get your trailer and load as normal. Go back to the truck stop and top off your fuel tanks. Depending on how good the scale is, you should get a minimum of weight on front axle of truck, weight on back axle of truck, and weight on trailer tandem. The weight of the truck should have increased. The total weight of your trailer is this increase in truck weight and the weight on the trailer tandems. If your tandems weight in at 14.6k, your truck weight should increase somewhere between 10 t0 20% of that amount (this is the weight on the pin or tongue).
Now go look at the labels on your truck and trailer. Are you exceeding the gross combined weight for truck and trailer (sticker in truck)? Are you exceeding the gross weight for the trailer? My guess is that your actual trailer weight is somewhere around 16.5 to 17k.
Now assuming that your trailer weight is within the maximum listed for the trailer, you know what the floor of your trailer is designed to survive. That's the one component that you really can't change. If you're over the limit, start throwing things off. Sometimes you can shift things from the trailer to the truck to get the weight right.
Now assuming your trailer weighs is at 17k, I'd personally go with 9k axles (total rating would be 18k). I'm assuming 18k is close or under the maximum weight the trailer can carry. This way I've built in a safety margin for the trailer axles. Under normal conditions, my 9k axles are only carrying 7.5k. However, I'm well aware that under normal driving conditions, occasionally for brief moments, the entire weight of my trailer might be on its axles (this happens when the bed of your truck all of a sudden feels light).
However, until you scale your truck and trailer, you don't know exactly what you've got and what you've got to solve. Further, some of the horse trailers with living quarters are only designed to carry two Shetland ponies and two inflatable horses for their four horse capacity, as they've crammed so much stuff into the living quarters that they've used up all of their capacity.
Now give me some bad news! Is there anything else that could happen other than bending an axle? ie: frame, mounting hardware???
I do know that after we had the blow out, that not only damaged the fender and running board we notice that the outside skin around the mangers has cracks around the wheel opening that was not there before and the side of the trailer behind the axle has a bow in the outer skin.
When a tire blows and shreds, that flapping rubber can cause a lot of destruction. It whips around at high speed, and weighs a lot. It easily can rip off a fender and cause other damage.
But the trick is you want the tires to be the first to go. Everything further into the system is more expensive to fix. To wander a bit, I have a heavy duty snowblower for my tractor. Last winter it was breaking shear bolts like crazy. I didn't have a snowstorm where I didn't break at least one. Crappy mechanic's fix is to make the shear bolt stronger. Wrong answer. They were breaking for a reason (one of the fins was bent just enough to cause problems). Fixing the real problem with a big hammer solved the shear bolt problem. Instead of breaking something more serious in the drive train, I was breaking something that took less than a minute to fix and cost under a dollar.
Same thing with a trailer. Breaking a tire is a lot cheaper and safer than something else breaking in the system. If you ever break an axle you'll know what I mean.
The closer you are to maximum weight, the more stress your putting on the entire system. The floor of your trailer is designed to flex and will flex through x number of cycles before it breaks (x here is a very large number). Flexing is worse the more weight you have on the trailer. Obviously when the floor flexes, everything else flexes.
When you blow a tire, the weight of your trailer shifts around as other components take up the weight. This increases stress on everything and can cause problems. However, without looking at your trailer, my guess is that the damage was caused by the tire winging around.
Posted 2008-08-09 3:55 PM (#89395 - in reply to #89204) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317 Location: Barnesville, Ga.
I agree with everything you said, but what I don't understand is that when you talk to the design engineers at Dexter axle they will tell you that there torflex axles work better at max load. Doesn't make any sense to me. When I was checking on my wt issue everyone discourages you from running a heavier axle stating that the beefier axles would make for a harsher ride. I personally like for something to be over designed. My trailer had a 14K gvw rating which did not account for the pin load. They (design engineers at trailer mfr) deliberately understated the capacity as they were concerned about the dot. I had them send me a new sticker with correct gvw limit on it as I was not comfortable pulling a trailer that was grossly over its stated limit. I knew it was just a sticker but I demanded to know what it was designed for. Too many mfrs bet that the end users are not going to be using there product. They think it will sit 50 weeks out of the year and by the law of averages I guess they save a ton of money and don't really have a problem fixing a few squeaky wheels that use there trailers every week.
Posted 2008-08-09 7:53 PM (#89405 - in reply to #89395) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Member
Posts: 22
Location: 03303
I agree with everything you said, but what I don't understand is that when you talk to the design engineers at Dexter axle they will tell you that there torflex axles work better at max load. Doesn't make any sense to me. When I was checking on my wt issue everyone discourages you from running a heavier axle stating that the beefier axles would make for a harsher ride.
The reason that Dexter Axle says that about their torflex axles is because of the fact that the spring is built into the axle. Just to clarify something I didn't state, when you change the axle weight ratings, you also need to adjust the springs for the new weight rating. Torflex does that automatically as it comes as a unit.
Let's take your one ton truck and go for a drive down a bumpy road. Your bed is empty. Ride is going to be rough and somewhat nasty. The cure? You can either reduce the pressure in your tires (up to a certain point) or you can add weight to the bed of the truck.
By adding weight to the bed of the truck, we put some pressure onto the springs. This causes the springs to compress a bit and soak up some of the bounce. (This is what would also happen with torflex axles.) Up until a certain point, adding more weight improves the ride of a truck. This is especially noticeable with older trucks, as newer trucks are designed less around carrying a load. It used to be expected that a one ton spent a significant portion of its life carrying a load. Why else would anyone buy one?
This is why Dexter is saying you should have a load on your trailer. It compresses the springs and gives you a better ride. Same reason why adding an axle way above your needs will give you a harsher ride. The axle itself isn't the problem, it's the fact that the spring package is a lot stiffer to deal with the extra weight.
To deal with this bounce factor when empty, you should be reducing the pressure in your tires. This gives your tire more flex taking up some of the bounce. Again, take your one ton down the road with an empty bed. Reduce the pressure down to about 50 psi in the rear. Ride probably isn't too bad. Now drive the same road with the tires at 90 psi (remember to adjust these figures to your tire's capacity -- these numbers work for me). Ride is a lot worse.
However, if you throw 2,000 pounds into the back of your truck and run at 50 psi, you have the potential of the rim hitting the ground as you bounce down the road. You need to reduce the tire flex by increasing the air pressure.
Going back to the trailer involved here, let's say it's load is 16k with four horses in the back. Tires are appropriately rated and maximum tire pressure is 90 psi. I would start out at 90 psi and experiment on ride quality a bit, maybe going down to 80 psi, but probably not. I'm pretty near the maximum on the tire and I'd prefer a little bit too much air pressure to having too little.
However, let's say that instead of 4 horses, we only load two. That brings our weight down about 2k, which is about a 12.5% reduction. You'd probably want to bring your tire pressure down a bit, maybe somewhere between 85 to 70 psi. It softens the ride, but the tires can still handle the weight without any problem.
If we're traveling an extended distance empty, we might take some more air out (remembering that this trailer weights somewhere between 10 - 12k empty). Obviously we're only going to reduce tire pressure if we're traveling a significant distance. On the other hand, we're going to increase the pressure immediately upon adding weight. Too high tire pressure merely effects ride -- too low tire pressure effects safety.
One way of dealing with this is to add air bags or shocks to your suspension. By increasing or decreasing air, you can balance out weight versus ride.
Correct tire pressure has a significant impact on wear of your tire as well as fuel economy.
Posted 2008-08-10 1:33 AM (#89414 - in reply to #89387) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
Ok, now I am totally LOST!
I scaled the trailer per the trailer manurfactures specs.. unloaded first, with only the items that came on the trailer. Took "dry" axle weight was 8800lbs and some change, then a gross "dry" trailer weight of 12,740lbs. Then went home and loaded all tack that we carry, filled all tanks except for the waste tanks, loaded 2 of our large horses and 2 small horses and ended up with a gross axle weight of 14,600lbs and a gross total weight of 18,800lbs! If we had used all 4 of our large hosres and filled the waste tanks we would hit the scale with around 15,300 on the axles and 19,500 gross.
Lucky for me when I bought my new truck last year I got an 2007 Dodge Ram 3500 cab and chassis and installed a hauler bed and this truck has a gvrw of 12,500lbs which is 2500 over a regular 1-ton truck.
Posted 2008-08-10 6:58 PM (#89437 - in reply to #89414) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Member
Posts: 22
Location: 03303
Do you mean lost as in that you are confused or do you mean lost in the sense that you have problems?
I'm hoping here that you have a dually, engine/exhaust brake, and a transmission temperature gauge.
You didn't give me the total weight for your truck and trailer combined. At 19.5k on the trailer, and a guess of 7.5k for your truck (including passengers), you have a total weight of 27k. Problem one is that if you look at all commercial, you need a CDL-A at that weight (26k is the limit).
Second problem is looking at what I believe at Dodge's specs for the 2008 Ram 3500, the maximum combined weight is 24k, putting you 3k over the combined weight limit for your truck. This can be verified by looking at the sticker in your truck for the combined weight. Again, looking at Dodge's specs, it appears that the maximum trailer weight for your vehicle is 16,350 pounds. This closely matches the 3k for the combined weight, so it looks at all of your excess is in your trailer.
Now assuming your trailer has a capacity of 20k (check the sticker on the trailer and maybe with the manufacturer), the question is where do you go from here. Best solution is to put your trailer on a diet. Shed some of those excess pounds. Your problem goes back to these things being designed for two Shetland ponies and two inflatable horses.
Assuming you want to run at this weight, what you need to do is compare what's different between the 3500 and the 4500. Engine and transmission should be okay, but definitely a transmission temperature gauge would be a wise investment. However, the rear suspension, rear axle, tires, and brakes are probably different. The only thing you can really change easily are your tires and these should be checked (they should be checked even if you bring your truck down to the limits, as frequently what people buy are not the tires you really need).
Assuming you go with Dodge's limits (16,350 pounds), I'd want to run either 8k or 9k axles with the appropriate tires and suspension. At 16,350 pounds for the trailer, you'd be at approximately 13k on the axles. This explains why the manufacturer put 7k axles on your trailer. It works, but there isn't a safety margin. I'm also wondering if the maximum weight for your trailer is somewhere around 16 - 17k, but I don't know.
Assuming you go with the 19.5k, you can go with either 9k or 10k axles. Minimum axles would be 8k.
Remember that you need to change the suspension and tires to match the new axles.
Posted 2008-08-10 7:48 PM (#89442 - in reply to #89204) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
(quote, equinetransport): Remember that you need to change the suspension and tires to match the new axles.
Sounds like they should change the trailer to match the load they're trying to carry.
c.will_09.. I asked you in a P.M. about what make/brand trailer do you have?.... I never got a response. There may be others on here that are almost in the same predicament as you so far as being overloaded...... An accident waiting to happen, if you will.
Posted 2008-08-10 11:17 PM (#89454 - in reply to #89437) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
confused for sure! Yes I know I have a big problem, but have no clue what to do now. No tire dealer will install tires on the wheels that came on the trailer and now I am finding out that I really need much larger axles to carry the weight or carry it safely. Inturn, if I replace the tires/wheels/axles to heavier items, is or will the frame handle it since this trailer was built to handle 7-k lb equipment. YES my truck has dual wheels, factory exhaust brake! When I scaled I did get a total gross at the same time and I was over the 26-k! But in Texas running "farm plates" no CDL is needed. My truck is NOT the standard 3500 1-ton truck, it is the 3500 cab n chassis model which has a 12.5-k gvrw instead of 10-k also with firestone airbags! But I bought this truck after I bought the trailer so I could match it the trailer and the sticker on the trailer shows 18,667 lbs. gross!
We just got back from a team sorting practice and seen a trailer like mine but in a 3 horse and they are having the same problems with tires also, but their trailer has 2 6-klbs axles with 8 ply tires and the empty weight of his trailer is almost 11-k lbs!
Posted 2008-08-11 8:29 AM (#89464 - in reply to #89204) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Without a question, you need heavier tires. With the heavier tires, you will have to have heavier rated wheels. That will alleviate some of your problems.
One thing to keep in mind, especially in your situation of running max load...make sure your trailer is level when loaded. If you are high in the front, with torsion axles, you will have a weight transfer to the rear axle, which will require it to carry more than it already is. Same thing on the front axle if you are low in the front. At 14,000 the axles are designed to carry a 50/50 ratio. Level it out so that they are.
Another thing that was said by equinetransport...put your trailer on a diet. You had said that your trailer empty weighed 8000 pounds. 4 horses averaging 1,100 is 4,400, tack is another 600, so that leaves 1,000 give or take for the 14,000 axle capacity. Take into consideration everything that you are carrying and if you really need it. If your LQ has a 60 gal water tank, and it is full, you are adding 500 pounds right there. If you are just going for the day, do you need to carry all of your water capacity? I am not criticizing, just saying take it into consideration. I could overload my trailer easily, but if I don't need it, I don't take it. Especially day runs. I carry 1/2 tank of water or less for the toilet and sink, and water the horses off of the grounds that I am at.
One question...You are blowing tires...is it the same location, same axle, all different?
Posted 2008-08-11 8:40 AM (#89466 - in reply to #89454) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Member
Posts: 22
Location: 03303
Actually, you're not in bad shape on the trailer. You say the sticker says 18,667 pounds. When you scaled it, you were at 18,800, less than 150 pounds over. Your maximum weight of 19.5k is only 850 pounds over your trailer's maximum weight. This is less than 5% over, which isn't too bad. Obviously, you want to be within the weight limits, but you're still within the safety limits designed into your trailer.
Let's go back in time and think about the manufacturer and its thought processes. Looking at a catalog, the difference between 7k and 8k axle sets in cost is about $300. Now the manufacture can get a discount, but there is a cost savings going with 7k axles. Let's say the manufacturer saves $200 in costs using the 7k axle (remember you need two sets). On 1,000 trailers, the manufacture will save $200,000! And out of those thousand trailers, probably 900+ buyers would not have any problems.
There are some fit questions involved here, but the biggest is going to be tire clearance. Personally I'd go with a 9k axles, appropriate springs, and wheels and tires rated at 4,500 pounds or a bit better. You'd probably be fine with 8k axles and wheels and tires rated at 4k, but since you're already having problems, I'd go for the higher number and suffer with the stiffer ride. You probably won't even notice it.
With the truck, the weight you're looking at is gross combined rated weight. I think you're going to find it to be about 24 - 25k. One thing you want to look at is whether the load limit springs in the rear are maxed out (ask a mechanic to show them to you -- it's easy to see and hard to describe what you're looking for). I know a fair amount of people with one tons pulling your weight without any problems.
Posted 2008-08-11 9:00 AM (#89467 - in reply to #89466) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Originally written by equinetransport on 2008-08-11 8:40 AM
Personally I'd go with a 9k axles, appropriate springs, and wheels and tires rated at 4,500 pounds or a bit better. You'd probably be fine with 8k axles and wheels and tires rated at 4k, but since you're already having problems, I'd go for the higher number and suffer with the stiffer ride. You probably won't even notice it.
He might not notice the stiffer ride, but guaranteed the horses will.
Posted 2008-08-11 11:11 AM (#89470 - in reply to #89464) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
1st off my horses are well over 1100 avg. we have quarter horses and paints all ranch raised and used horses. I bet our avg is going to be closer to 1200 or 1250 AVG!
I get what you are saying about a diet! But when we go we are going for a "WEEKEND" trip 90% of the time and I also think about "am I going to have any trouble, am I going to have to spend and extra day, have and brake downs or anything that could happen" I never leave without the water tanks full just for that reason. Have been there and done that! That is why I bought a trailer with everything like we wanted. If I only needed to carry 1/2 of my stuff I would have bought a smaller trailer or kept the small one I had.
Almost all of the other brands of trailers I have looked at since I have had problems with tires and stuff, are well over rated on the tires/wheels/axles!
The major blowout that caused the damage was on the left rear.
Posted 2008-08-11 11:23 AM (#89472 - in reply to #89466) Subject: RE: Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
Regular
Posts: 73 Location: Decatur, Texas
We looked at a couple of other trailer brands over the weekend and checked the vin plate and axle sticker and most of them show the grvw to be what ever the axle weight is. So if the trailer has 2 7-k lbs axles the trailer showed to have a gross weight of 14-k lbs. And the couple of dealers I talked to about this told me that the manurfactures do their trailer this way becasue most customers have no clue how much weight they actually carry so the manurfacture factures that in so there is no guessing. I also noticed that other trailers I have looked at that are the same size mine (but other brands) have 2 8-k lbs axles and 17.5 tires and wheels.
Truck is fine, been to the Dodge house and to Freightliner loaded to let them look it over and they told me I was close but still in the limit. But if I wold have gone with the standard 1-ton I would be over the limit!
Running trailer at MAX weight cap.
