Posted 2008-08-03 8:24 PM (#88934 - in reply to #88888) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Location: ny
I guess I should have worded it differently I have owned him since april when he came to my barn I could not even get near him with time we now have bonded
He has great ground manners. picks his feet up like a champ but hes soooo very nervous and shy no fast movements so as we all know blacksmiths are kinda noisy and have strange tools the horse seeing and hearing all this gets real scared.I had to cradle his head in my arms to comfort him as he was working on the back I thought maybe something to take the edge off like us going to the dentist? make sense?
Posted 2008-08-03 8:25 PM (#88935 - in reply to #88888) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Location: Keymar,Maryland
Perhaps there is a reason for the apprehension. While it's hard on the farrier ask him to alternate back and forth on the hindlimbs doing a little each time.Also keep them low and close to center. If he is kept up and has a pain problem it turns into a tug of war and gets worse each time.He may resond well to use of a hoof cradle as well. Rich
Posted 2008-08-04 2:32 AM (#88948 - in reply to #88934) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Location: Vermont
Originally written by tennw on 2008-08-03 9:24 PM
I guess I should have worded it differently I have owned him since april when he came to my barn I could not even get near him with time we now have bonded
He has great ground manners. picks his feet up like a champ but hes soooo very nervous and shy no fast movements so as we all know blacksmiths are kinda noisy and have strange tools the horse seeing and hearing all this gets real scared.I had to cradle his head in my arms to comfort him as he was working on the back I thought maybe something to take the edge off like us going to the dentist? make sense?
If that is the case, halter him and make it so he can watch, while other horses, especially the calm horses are being shod...worked with one of our drafts...
Posted 2008-08-04 9:35 AM (#88967 - in reply to #88888) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Location: Grapeland, Texas
I have a mule like that. She is ok with the front feet but not so good with the back. She will let me mess with her back feet, after a lot of work, but she is leary of others, so I don't think all the ground work in the world will cure her. I let my farrier give her a shot, it's not worth him getting hurt to not do it. She seems to get a little better each time, so maybe someday he'll be able to do it without the shot. Someone some where in the past has really done a number on her. She is great to ride but doesn't like people on the ground.
Posted 2008-08-04 5:08 PM (#88995 - in reply to #88934) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Location: Southern New Mexico
Could he be sore in the hips (arthritis?) when he is held for a while?
My old mare gets sore and my "old" vet gave me a container of powdered bute to give her before the farrier comes out. Just a scoop (the one that came with the bute, 1oz I think) with her morning feed and she is fine. We tried not to lift her feet as high, farrier was kneeling not standing, but she still got sore and was starting to pull from us anytime we had to lift a foot.
Posted 2008-08-04 9:13 PM (#89014 - in reply to #88917) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Posts: 376
Location: Missouri
Yes, try everything mentioned, BUT then if he is still a problem don't hesitate to take the safe way out and use a little tranquilizer. Better save than sorry. We had an Arabian Stallion many years ago, that was shown a lot and kept shod all of the time, then a little at a time he became impossible to trim and shoe in the rear. We tried everything imaginable. Nothing work, but a little ace did the trick.
Posted 2008-08-05 8:42 AM (#89040 - in reply to #88888) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Location: Fort Worth, Tx
not to mention that Ace is not recommended for use on stallions. But, I do agree that there is nothing wrong with using a calming agent of some kind, you'll have to experiment with what works best and what is allowed if you show. Keep working with him and keep yourself and him safe.
Posted 2008-08-05 1:11 PM (#89062 - in reply to #88888) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Posts: 58
Location: Foley, MO
If you can rule out pain as a problem (and it may take a vet for this), then you've likely got a behavioral issue. This can be resolved.
The approach/retreat or pressure/release method has worked best for me on all the youngsters and other horses I've worked with that have hoof handling problems.
Start by sacking out the front legs...moving your hands rapidly up and down the leg, taking care to watch the ears out of the corner of your eye...when the ears start pinning, or he starts to try and move a foot, work your way back up rapidly and start again.
Keep sacking out then start moving more slowly as the horse calms and accepts your touch. Now, squeeze the tendon just above the pastern and give a verbal cue..."foot...foot" and when he picks it up, YOU set it right back down, immediately. Timing is key here. It needs to become YOUR idea to set the foot back down, not his.
Make this a game where you slowly increase the amount of time you are able to hold the hoof.
Do this on the rear as well, and be mindful of giving that release BEFORE it becomes his idea to set his foot down or take it away from you. In about a week, you'll be able to hold the front or rear hooves up for as long as you'd like. I'd practice getting an old horseshoe, laying it in position on the hoof, and tapping with first a rubber mallet, then a small piece of wood, then a small ball-peen hammer. He'll be desensitized to this before you know it.
Posted 2008-08-05 1:14 PM (#89063 - in reply to #88888) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Location: Foley, MO
Oh, and my best riding QH Gelding, Tuffy...he's claustrophobic...hates being in the barn in cross ties, so we tied him outside to the trailer. I also noticed that when he has a saddle on, he lets me do anything I want with his feet...so, he gets saddled up for shoeing.
Posted 2008-08-10 8:18 PM (#89445 - in reply to #88888) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Posts: 391
Location: Columbia, KY
as long as you've ruled out an physical problems maybe you should try teaching your horse to hobble. It worked very well on one of my young horses who was fine to trim but got worse and worse about having his hind feet shod. I hobbled him (front only) several times/week for a couple months and boy what a difference! it seemed to have a real calming (and humbling) affect.
Posted 2008-08-10 9:21 PM (#89450 - in reply to #88888) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Location: North Carolina
My horse was shy about the feet too ... I started to tap the bottom of the hoof with the pick as I picked his hoof out. Just to knock off the dirt off the pick. He still doesn't like any farrier moving to him quickly, but he allows his feet to be worked on.
Posted 2008-08-14 2:35 PM (#89717 - in reply to #88888) Subject: RE: shoeing
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Location: North of Detroit, MI
I picked up an unknown breed, gaited horse that apparently had many trust issues. EXTREMELY , EXTREMELY head shy. Very difficult for the farrier to work on. It took about 4 months before I could easily halter him without him flipping his head. Soon after that I was able to put a fly mask WITH EARs on him. But it took longer to gain enough trust for him to give his hind feet.
I have built trust in the horse using many different methods - particularly, a 4' long dressage whip that I tied a small piece of sheeting to. I use that to touch him all over and when he is still, I take it away and tell him what a GOOODD BOY he is. At the beginning, he also got pieces of treats whenever I said "GOODD BOOOY"... after awhile I no longer needed the treats, just saying it was his reward.
So far as doing his feet. An ex-Amish fellow, a farrier, showed me a trick. Take a 10' long, twisted cotton lead rope and place it around the horse's leg - up near the hock. Hold both ends and kind of gently rub up and down the leg with it. As the horse adjusts to this sensation, let the rope drop down to the pastern and then slowly twist it until it is snug around the leg. Pull on it and release when the horse makes ANY lift with his foot. Repeat until you can lift the foot up about knee high (your knee) and hold it. Work both sides of the horse. you will be lifting the foot forwards, under the belly - not to the back.
This might take an hour or several hours over several days - but you should be able to hold the horse's foot up using the soft rope. Then, begin holding the foot with your hand and take it out to the back of the horse and to the side, as the farrier will.
A horse will NOT give its feet until he feels secure and trusts the environment. Once you start the trust NEVER betray it. A horse's feet are his primary means of safety.
Then, when the farrier comes, go through all the steps you have worked on with the horse while the farrier stands by the horse. The horse needs to know that he can give his feet to the new person too.
If you have trouble at any time in the training ... you may need to try some bute as a pain killer to make sure it's not a pain issue.
I have used powdered QUIETEX in the past for a few issues. Give it full dose for 2 or 3 days before the event. Very little pelleted feed. Vitamin B1 is another supplement - you need to feed it everyday.