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trailer size / weight optins

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Sheryl63
Reg. Mar 2007
Posted 2008-05-17 6:23 AM (#84108)
Subject: trailer size / weight optins


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I am in the market for a 2H bumperpull.  I own an '07 F-150 with the bigger engine, CORRECTION 3.73 (not 2.73 as I originally said) gear ratio so it has a decent tow rating (assuming WDH).  When I went shopping for a 2H, the dealer told me I was fine with any of the trailers I looked at - which weighed in range from 2500-3600 pounds.  My horse is about 1,100# and I may want to haul a second horse of comparable or smaller size.  Anyway, the advantage of the bigger/heavier trailer is that it is taller, bigger and appeared to my assessment heavier duty.  My horse is nearly 16H and kinda high headed.  I hauled in a friends trailer yesterday and he is such a mellow guy, he was fine, but his ears brushed the roof as we were loading and unloading.  I could see how an extra 3-4" would be really nice and help keep him such a great loader.  So, I did the math using one of those tow capacity worksheets (not just relying on the manufacturer's high tow rating) and I think i am okay with either trailer, but am undecided which will best suit my needs.  I realize that I don't have the biggest truck for towing and I don't want to push the envelope, but the heavier trailer seemed not just bigger, but better.  I have some discomfort with all aluminum (strength in an accident) although Circle J has a feature rich, taller aluminum that is well under 3000 pounds.  I loved many things about that trailer, but we have heavy traffic and risk of fender benders is high... so something about steel or steel frame at least is appealing. 

So, I guess what I am asking is have any of regretting going with a 7' tall versus a litle taller - is the weight trade off worth it?   I read here enough to know that there are many people quite happy with aluminum, but I don't see how it can possibly hold up as well in an accident, both auto and horse caused.  I do like the lower maintenance aspect, living here in the land of wet winters. 



Edited by Sheryl63 2008-05-17 10:36 AM
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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-05-17 9:48 AM (#84116 - in reply to #84108)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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Your truck has a very low axle ratio which is made for transportation and not towing. On level areas it won't be a problem, but in mountainous traveling, the truck will spend a lot of time in the lower gears as the engine will be working very hard. You will have to make sure you have a good transmission oil cooler for the longevity of your transmission.

Because a trailer is primarily constructed of steel or aluminum, will not determine if it will be a good one or not. The quality of the materials, the engineering of how they are placed, and the skills by which they are applied, will determine the quality of the finished product.

There are some aluminum trailers that are poorly made, just as there are steel. One poster had an aluminum trailer that was so corroded in four years that it was replaced. Another poster had her aluminum flooring crush and fail. These are exceptions, and were built by manufacturers that were not interested in building a quality product. There are steel trailers out there that are just as bad. A well built aluminum trailer is just as safe in an accident as a well built steel trailer.

A brand name trailer that has been around for a while, and has many sales, is your best indication of a quality product. Many people only shop by price and never even look underneath the trailer they are considering. This forum has a multitude of different brand ownerships. Usually almost any brand is represented and you can discover which are the more popular.

A seven foot trailer is just about the minimum practical height you would want to consider. Some owners opt for the 7 1/2'. The difference in weight vs height is minimal.

For the record, I now own aluminum trailers after several steel, and have no reason to change back.

Gard

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Sheryl63
Reg. Mar 2007
Posted 2008-05-17 10:34 AM (#84122 - in reply to #84108)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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CORRECTION - I made a mistake in my original post: 

3.73 ratio
5.4L gas engine
145" wheelbase
This all makes it one of Fords beefier half tons available in '07 for towing - going to a 3/4 ton is not an option at the moment.

Deal is, I was looking at specific trailers on the lot, the tall steel framed aluminum skinned Hawk was heavier then the aluminum framed Circle J for a similiar height.   The Hawk was also heavier then the small 7' all steel trailer I looked at.   At least of the brands I looked at, it seemed the taller all steel trailers were heavier.   I think we all know why there is a weight difference - they really are different types of trailers and I am not trying to compare the reason for the weight differerence. 

What I am really saying is that I WANT the taller Hawk, or the taller all steel, but I am worried about the weight, inspite of that the dealer says that it is fine with my truck. 

When I did the weight calculator, which is kind of complicated, it said I had a good margin of error on the trailer/tow weight, but not on the truck - isn't that wild?  I calculated it with passengers, cargo, full tank of gas, spare water, etc and only had like 100# or so of cushion which I thought was concerning.  Although admittedly, reducing the trailer weight by 1000# did not increase my truck cargo reserve capacity too much.  I wonder if I need to actually go weigh the truck, it could be that the info I pulled from the internet is too high.

 I am very aware that for many of you... this is way more detail then you would ever go into, but I am an analytical type and before I spend so much money on a trailer, I want to be confident I can safely manage it! 

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-05-17 11:53 AM (#84126 - in reply to #84108)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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There are a few members on here that are experts in the field of truck specifications, towing capacities and everything you have and will need for adequate towing. The weekends are usually slow on the forum and will pick up after the fun time is over.

If you have to sacrifice height because of weight, I would try a different brand or an aluminum trailer. If your horse is not comfortable and secure, your expenditure is wasted. It won't be long before you will want to get a new trailer, and your expenses will exceed the cost of the correct singular trailer.

Gard

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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2008-05-17 12:00 PM (#84127 - in reply to #84108)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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I had a 97 F150 4x4 extended cab with the same engine and rear end as yours and I hauled a 16ft all steel gooseneck trailer with 2 average sized horses for years with NO problems. On occasion I even hauled 3 horses but not for very long and only rarely. With the trailer loaded with horses and gear, I was right at the weight limit according to the Ford recommendations. As far as the height of the trailer goes, if it is within the weight limit guidelines, I would go with the taller trailer so your horse would be more comfortable. JMHO
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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2008-05-17 6:30 PM (#84134 - in reply to #84108)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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On you door pillar or somewhere close there should be a sticker thats says "max payload should not exceed", or something similar.  That is basically your GVWR minus the trucks weight as it left the factory, or in other terms your payload.  Without knowing  all your specifics I would guess your payload to be in the 1700# range.....more than enough for all but the largest BP, unless you going to load a BUNCH of people and stuff also.

My all steel 2H BP trailer is 7' tall, 6' 8" wide, and 15' on the floor, weighing in at 6000# loaded (with two 1000# horses and typical day trail ride stuff).  The tongue weight is 650# empty, about 800# loaded and can approach 1000# with water, hay and extra stuff.  This is what will be carried on the truck and has to be subtracted from the payload.  In your case you would still have ~900# for driver, passenger and gear.

You appear to be just fine to me with any of your mentioned choices.  You are not even close to "pushing the envelope".  You most certainly do not need a 3/4 ton to pull a 2H BP of any size. FWIW I pulled the above mentioned trailer with my Trailblazer for several years, with just me and my wife on board I was under the GVWR and GCWR....barely.  Do not confuse a working limit (GVWR, and axle limits) with a failure/breaking point.  These limits are what the vehicle CAN be worked at SAFELY and should still provide acceptable service life.  Also do not be afraid to 'rev' the engine when pulling a hill, people commonly confuse that for an engine straining.  A gas engine makes its power at a higher rpm, you have to rev it there to get that power.   And before someone chimes in about being able to stop, the brakes on the 07 F 150 are LARGER than the brakes on my 05 3/4 ton Dmax.

Should you have any more specifics or any other questions I, and others, will be glad to help.

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KrystleChoco
Reg. Jul 2007
Posted 2008-05-17 9:27 PM (#84139 - in reply to #84108)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins





Just wanted to add something on this thread. :)

I have a 2004 F150 with the same specifications as yours. I find when I pull a bumper pull, over 60 the trailer will sway awful. Goosenecks, on the other hand pull just fine at 60 or 70. I'm currently looking for a new trailer and actually went around the block with one of the guys we rope with's F150 with a 3 horse Sundowner, weekender in tow. I just wanted to find out how it felt. He had a prodigy brake controller in the truck, no air bags, and it toted the trailer like there was nothing behind it; it was loaded with 2 horses.

Depending on how much you pull the trailer and what roads you travel on, I'd look for a gooseneck for more stability. You will have to add a brake controller and possible air bags, but in the long run, it maybe the better investment.

Sometimes people will tell you not to pull with an F150, but you can. I just caution to know your truck's limits and the additional equipment to make the truck safe towing a trailer. :)

Happy shopping!

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2008-05-17 9:55 PM (#84142 - in reply to #84139)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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Originally written by KrystleChoco on 2008-05-17 10:27 PM

Just wanted to add something on this thread. :)

I have a 2004 F150 with the same specifications as yours. I find when I pull a bumper pull, over 60 the trailer will sway awful. Goosenecks, on the other hand pull just fine at 60 or 70. I'm currently looking for a new trailer and actually went around the block with one of the guys we rope with's F150 with a 3 horse Sundowner, weekender in tow. I just wanted to find out how it felt. He had a prodigy brake controller in the truck, no air bags, and it toted the trailer like there was nothing behind it; it was loaded with 2 horses.

Depending on how much you pull the trailer and what roads you travel on, I'd look for a gooseneck for more stability. You will have to add a brake controller and possible air bags, but in the long run, it maybe the better investment.

Sometimes people will tell you not to pull with an F150, but you can. I just caution to know your truck's limits and the additional equipment to make the truck safe towing a trailer. :)

Happy shopping!

You need to have someone experienced take a look at your trailer/truck.  Ive never owned a BP that wouldnt tow straight and true to at least 80 mph....well beyond necessary towing speed. 

There is no reason for a BP to sway when set up correctly, may be something simple or there may be something mechanically wrong with your trailer.

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jackbrat
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2008-05-17 11:47 PM (#84146 - in reply to #84108)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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Definitely go with the 7'6" tall. It's always better to have more that enough room than not enough. It will also be a better resale option later down the road. I made the mistake of getting a 7' tall trailer for my almost 16h horse that is high headed and he does not have enough head room. Every time i back him out of the trailer he lifts his head at the last minute and almost hits it on the back part of the trailer. And this is a horse who loads and unloads nice and quietly. All it takes is just one time for them to hit their head and they wont forget it. You can get a good quality aluminum trailer that is just as heavy as a steel. Some manufacturers make a " taller " 7' trailer though. My Exiss was 7' tall and it was a "taller" 7' than the one i have now. Also make sure that the stalls will be long enough for your horse. That is another problem that I have with my current trailer. Just because the trailer may be wider than another, doesn't mean the stall measurements will be "longer". You really should see if you can get your horse to the dealer and load him in that trailer to see how well he fits.  Good luck and let us know what you end up with!
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KeepsakeFarm
Reg. Feb 2008
Posted 2008-05-18 11:15 AM (#84155 - in reply to #84108)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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I went from a steel BP to a 1987 WW Briteman with dropdowns for years and used if for both horses (one was 17.1hh) and cows.  I "got away" with it because 1) the cows were fairly placid, and 2) the horse took two stalls when I took him anywhere, 3) I didn't haul very far with him so it didn't matter that he stretched out and couldn't really raise his head, and 4) he was super great at loading and unloading.  No damage from the cows.  I pulled it with a Chevy 1500 for awhile and did OK as long as I wasn't in a hurry!  

I upgraded to a 4Star LQ aluminum 9 I have a Ford 250 Diesel now too).  I think the WW trailer was only 6'6" high and I didn't have any trouble selling it.  I won't go back to steel again, mostly because I don't like to worry about rust.  That's just my experience, but I think it all depends on how much and how far you are planning to go.

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gard
Reg. Aug 2007
Posted 2008-05-18 1:42 PM (#84157 - in reply to #84139)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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Originally written by KrystleChoco on 2008-05-17 10:27 PM

Just wanted to add something on this thread. :)

I have a 2004 F150 with the same specifications as yours. I find when I pull a bumper pull, over 60 the trailer will sway awful. Goosenecks, on the other hand pull just fine at 60 or 70.

I agree with Chad, a properly trimmed trailer will not sway at any reasonable highway speed. I have towed bumper pull trailers of every kind for many decades, and have never needed auxiliary devices to restrict swaying or oscillating movements. In almost every case of swaying, the cause is a tongue weight that is improper, usually it being too light.

Our last 3 horse BP stock/combo with an 18' box, towed with no swaying behind two different vehicles. The loading was critical, and if a single horse were loaded into the rearward stall, the trailer would not tow correctly. Placing a single horse in the middle or forward stall cured any handling problems.

The reason GN trailers tow so well is that the nose is always properly loaded. It is almost impossible, because of the axle placements, to have a rearward weight bias. Also with the axles further rearward on the trailer, than comparable BP trailers, you end up with a longer resulting trailer/truck wheel base. (Hitch to axle)  Placing the tongue weight over the axle and on the frame, instead of behind the bumper, also greatly stabilizes the truck.

Continual towing of a swaying trailer is dangerous, and will result in rapid tire and mechanical wear to both vehicles.

Gard

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2008-05-19 7:02 AM (#84194 - in reply to #84146)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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Originally written by jackbrat on 2008-05-17 12:47 AM

 Some manufacturers make a " taller " 7' trailer though. My Exiss was 7' tall and it was a "taller" 7' than the one i have now.

 

Got me wondering about my 7'.  Went out and actually measured mine.  It measured 6' 10" at the door header, 7' 4" on the inside, guess I dont know where they measure the 7'?  Maybe it depends on the manufacturer?  Just something else to think about.

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eclipse
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2008-05-19 7:43 AM (#84199 - in reply to #84108)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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Yes, they have several options of where that "seven foot" is measured. My 7 foot trailer is measured to the weld seam where the roof attaches. Inside the trailer it is 7'2" to the framing across the roof, and 7'3" to the roof itself. All of which gives my horses plenty of room and plenty of air.
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Towfoo
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2008-05-20 6:52 AM (#84299 - in reply to #84122)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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Originally written by Sheryl63 on 2008-05-17 10:34 AM

When I did the weight calculator, which is kind of complicated, it said I had a good margin of error on the trailer/tow weight, but not on the truck - isn't that wild?  I calculated it with passengers, cargo, full tank of gas, spare water, etc and only had like 100# or so of cushion which I thought was concerning.  Although admittedly, reducing the trailer weight by 1000# did not increase my truck cargo reserve capacity too much.  I wonder if I need to actually go weigh the truck, it could be that the info I pulled from the internet is too high.

 I am very aware that for many of you... this is way more detail then you would ever go into, but I am an analytical type and before I spend so much money on a trailer, I want to be confident I can safely manage it! 



If your confidence depends on staying within Ford's weight limit ratings, definitely load your truck up with all the stuff you'll be hauling when you tow your horses and go to a truck scale. Then get Ford's 2007 towing guide and do the math. All the info you need to calculate your truck's towing/hauling capacity will be in there, you just have to find the right column/row and read the footnotes. You can download it in PDF format from here:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/default.asp



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jackbrat
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2008-05-21 11:39 PM (#84429 - in reply to #84194)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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Hi Chadsalt,

I measured mine again and the "middle" of the roof to the trailer floor from the inside of the trailer measures 7'. But when i got to the sides of the trailer, like directly over the feed bags, it was 6' 10"?? So, my roof is "rounded" I guess you could say. I looked at my friends Exiss (she bought the same exact model and year that I used to own) the roof is "square" meaning the sides are the same height as the rest of the trailer. Just that design makes a huge difference in more "head room"!

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chadsalt
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2008-05-22 5:50 PM (#84496 - in reply to #84429)
Subject: RE: trailer size / weight optins


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Originally written by jackbrat on 2008-05-21 12:39 AM

Hi Chadsalt,

I measured mine again and the "middle" of the roof to the trailer floor from the inside of the trailer measures 7'. But when i got to the sides of the trailer, like directly over the feed bags, it was 6' 10"?? So, my roof is "rounded" I guess you could say. I looked at my friends Exiss (she bought the same exact model and year that I used to own) the roof is "square" meaning the sides are the same height as the rest of the trailer. Just that design makes a huge difference in more "head room"!

Mine measured 7' right about where the roof started to "roll" over on the sides.

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