Posted 2008-02-23 8:29 AM (#77696 - in reply to #76773) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Location: Texas
VAcowboy- sorry if I had a part in hijacking your thread and getting off track. I appreciate you getting this out for everyone's information. Do you happen to know if Sundowner primed the trailers before they applied the Suncoat? It would help explain what went wrong. I wanted to say maybe ole Gard was consulting for them, but I won't.
Posted 2008-02-23 8:51 AM (#77701 - in reply to #77698) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Location: Texas
Just trying to get the facts here, not just a bunch of eloquently espoused BS by some self proclaimed expert that is clueless. There are a lot of folks out there that spent real bucks for these trailers and VAcowboy did them a huge service by bringing this up. Everyone on this forum should be interested in helping them find an honest solution to their predicament, and help others avoid future pitfalls. It ain't goin' away.
Posted 2008-02-23 8:56 AM (#77703 - in reply to #77698) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Regular
Posts: 97 Location: Kansas
I think we need to get back on track with this thread. I have an interest in hearing from Sundowner dealers ect as well. I owned an 01 3H slant Valuelite a few years ago. When a prospective buyer pointed out to me they didn't like the looks of the frame.. I said "huh"?? Upon crawling under the trailer and viewing the decaying "spray on coating" and subsequent rusty flaking of the actual steel frame I was a tad concerned. I had purchased this trailer used and had barely used it myself. I chalked it up to a fluke with that particular trailer. Now.. I am tending to think otherwise. I would like to know from 3 Yr Hitch... When an owner is in debt out the wahzoo on a Sundowner (most of us normal buyers are)... what are they supposed to use for a means of hauling their horse if their pricey Sundowner is in the shop getting stripped and repaired? Of course they are still making a payment on the trailer during this time. Just curious how that works?
Posted 2008-02-23 9:04 AM (#77707 - in reply to #77701) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Regular
Posts: 97 Location: Kansas
Originally written by Tx. Vaquero on 2008-02-23 8:51 AM
Just trying to get the facts here, not just a bunch of eloquently espoused BS by some self proclaimed expert that is clueless. There are a lot of folks out there that spent real bucks for these trailers and VAcowboy did them a huge service by bringing this up. Everyone on this forum should be interested in helping them find an honest solution to their predicament, and help others avoid future pitfalls. It ain't goin' away.
Posted 2008-02-23 12:49 PM (#77743 - in reply to #77701) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Expert
Posts: 2615
Everyone on this forum should be interested in helping them find an honest solution to their predicament, and help others avoid future pitfalls. It ain't goin' away.
Yeah,but you're arguing over and over about something entirely different than what the OP talked about to begin with.I think everyone on the forum knows how you feel now about Gard and your shoddy trailer floor.Get over it.It sure won't go away long as you keep it going,but,you're running on the wrong thread about it.
Posted 2008-02-23 1:37 PM (#77747 - in reply to #76773) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TRAILERS
Member
Posts: 20
Location: Southeast
Tx- I think you're on the wrong track. 3 Yr is wrong about the Suncoat (check Sundowner's website). Suncoat is their name for the spray in bedliner type of product that is used on the horse walls instead of rubber, and under the neck. The frame itself is powder coated, then (on later models) undercoated with a basic rubberized undercoating. Va pointed out in the first post that the flexing of the steel frame (normal) caused the rigid powder coat to separate because it couldn't flex. Water trapped inside the resulting void area= rust. If this is all accurate, then trailers used regularly would be worse than those that sit, and this does seem to be the case. The challenge to "fixing it" is it sounds like a bit of flawed engineering that you're trying to correct after the assembly is done. Just how are you supposed to strip the powder coating off of every bit of steel framing inside the walls & under the floor, then cover it with paint? I'm not thinking this is a viable solution. But anything else is a patch job. I have several friends pulling these trailers and they're not sure where this is going to lead. THis thread has been helpful to get folks checking under their trailer as the lady just pointed out, but no one from Sundowner has come on here to do anything but flame (3 yr Hitch..). We need real answers and ideas, not to be constantly reminded about warranty.
Posted 2008-02-25 1:39 PM (#77916 - in reply to #76773) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Veteran
Posts: 201
3 yr. thought I'd bring this back up to the front page, so you can answer the questions everyone has about Sundowner trailers. (See questions addressed to you)
Posted 2008-02-26 1:31 PM (#78030 - in reply to #76773) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Location: A high mountain peak
I can tell you that in 2001 it was brought to the Sundowner owners and engineers that rust was occurring around the drop down windows, where the powder coating was cracking. I believe somewhere about 2004 several trailers were identified with severe internal rust. 2005/6 they did a "quite" rename from Valuelite to 727. All dealers knew how these trailers were built (toured plant) and all knew of rename and the st notart of Suncoat being sprayed on the steel frame. I really upsets me that dealers like 3yr old is so high and mighty, yet would give the real answers to everyone's questions like: YES the will continue to sell the steel framed trailers in inventory. NO most sales people never tell customers they were steel framed. Sundowner has the best warranty on paper, but try to get something REALLY done and you'll get the worst run around of any manufacturer. Why do you think Sundowner is now only building aluminum trailers? (Maybe the potential losses from warrany guarantees will eat their lunch??)
Or is Suncoat something that Sundowner has concocted, like a Line-X, Rhino, Herculiner stirred up in a pot then sprayed on top of the Power Coat?
Next question. How do they go about powder coating the frame? Powder coating has to be baked on. OR, are they using an eletrostac paint process? This is the deal where the frame is positively charged and the paint negitively charged while the paint is being applied. This process can be done outside in the wide open. This powder coating has to be applied, then baked on in some large GIA-MONGUS oven, after all the welding has been done. Does anybody really know what and how they do this/these coating processes? Or, are we all just guessing and going on what others are guessing. I've never read anywhere but on HTW, that the Sundowner steel frame trailers are powercoated, before this "suncoat" is applied. It's really none of my business how they "do it", but I want to know!
All you SUNDOWNER dealers, that really know, that's seen this steel trailer frame coating process done with your own eyes, not here say from some internet horse trailer website... I'm calling you out. If you've been to the factory and seen it done, then tell me what it is, that they actually do. Do they actually bake on the power coat, or is it just a thin coat of black ENAMAL sprayed on while the frame is in a jig or hanging from a hoist? What is "SUNCOAT"? Is it something like this Rhino brand truck bed liner?
I guess that's one reason why I've never bought a Sundowner, alway's wanted one, but after talking to a dealer or salesperson, I always felt like I never, ever got the whole story. I would ask a saleperson "Is that a steelframe trailer?" saleperson would reply, "Naw Sir, that thar is all lu-me-um"!! The trailer I was looking at had a single DOT stripe and the model number was "767" !!..... Yes, it would be a steel frame, and I would drive away, telling my wife.... Maybe next time, at another dealer. The thing was... I wanted a 767 steel frame trailer, but I didn't want the dealer lying to me telling me it wasn't. If they were going to lie about that then what else is he/them/they going to "mis-quote"!
I don't think it's some big trade secret, most all dealers spray their frames with something........ All except Circle M, I had a 93 Circle M stock trailer that didn't get any paint underneath no lower than what you could reach standing upright, beside the trailer!! That was one rust frame trailer, but I neve lost any sleep over it nor did I ever spend a dime on it other than tires, brakes and wheel bearing grease..
I'm done now!..So those of you that really know...How does SUNDOWNER "do it"?
Posted 2008-02-26 3:33 PM (#78042 - in reply to #76773) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Location: A high mountain peak
In 2001Sundowner had a huge booth that sides of the frame went thru, after through washing of the steel. This booth was heated, but I can't tell you to what degree. After this powder coating, the frame parts were allowed to dry and then welded together to make the trailer body (I don't know if the welded area was recoated or not?) Suncoat is almost identical to Rhinoliner (it was probably private labeled by someone with the name "Suncoat" for Sundowner. Steel sheets were sprayed with this and then rivieted inside the trailer (instead of rubber mats on side walls). The floor was not taped off so it was easier just to spray the entire floor, even though Sundowner never warrantied this and knew that it would not stick well to aluminum. I am not familar with how the Suncoat is now being applied to the frame, but I can't imagine why they would powder coat and then spray with Suncoat. This would cost too much and be a duplication of processes?? Sundowner trailers are very well built and their quality and workmanship is probably one of the highest in the business. The powdercoat problems started occurring on Valuelites/727's a long time ago, 2001/2002, and nothing was every addressed publicly,which really bothers me the most. I've seen first hand at large shows where salespeople have not told the whole truth about their products and watched them scramble when challenges, such as these, arise. I've watched this wesite over the past several years without much posting. I've been amused by the "salespeople" and internet gurus that state facts or give advise on subjects they have little practical experience with. I've been to several trailer factories and several conversion companies over the past 30 years and have seen first hand how most trailers and LQ's are built, some are wonderful and some are down right scary!!
Posted 2008-02-26 5:08 PM (#78050 - in reply to #78035) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
Here is my disclaimer...I am not a dealer.
But here is what I can add....
The suncoat that sundowner refers to is "something that Sundowner has concocted, like a Line-X, Rhino, Herculiner stirred up in a pot then sprayed on" and Sundowner does actually actually powder coat. The suncoat is then sprayed on top of the powder coat. Assumedly, the reason that the process is being duplicated is because it wasn’t working with just the powder coat.
According to http://www.sundownertrailer.com/features the trailers are undercoated also... on the newer ones at least. Also according to http://www.sundownertrailer.com/trailers/horse/gooseneck/slant_load/sunLite_727 they are an aluminum trailer. The dealers will also advertise the trailers as aluminum. Just search on this website for Sundowner trailers and look at all of the trailers that end with a 7. There are 400 or more new 2007 and 2008 model Sundowners on here that fall in this category and they do not state steel frame. They will either say aluminum trailer, or aluminum this and aluminum that. I can remember another trailer company handing out magnets with the slogan on them “if it sticks, it isn’t aluminum” at the Quarter Horse Congress to prove that this particular model (it was a Valuelite then) had a steel frame.
And to 3yr... you jumped up as a spokesman, and then ducked your head... you really should answer what you can. No question about it, Sundowner does have a good warranty, but it is not the only manufacturer that offers a transferable warranty. The trailers that are being covered under warranty; are they being covered under the 3 year hitch to bumper part of the warranty, or the 8 year structural? Technically rust would not be a structural issue, so the question would be...is this only covered in the first three years?
Posted 2008-02-26 6:26 PM (#78056 - in reply to #78050) Subject: RE: ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
Elite Veteran
Posts: 720 Location: Never miss a good chance to shut up.
I'm going to freeze this thread, not delete it. That way you can find it for future searches. I'm a little disturbed by accusations that people were calling others "idiots". I read it all and didn't see that (even before the edits).
It's not the difference in opinions that made this thread go bad, but it was the school house name calling, (internet wizards) etc. that was uncalled for. Those posters can consider this as a notice that further name calling will not be tolerated.
Under circumstances like this, I doubt any manufacturer would jump in a thread where people have already formed an opinion. At least, not without a bodyguard.
But I will offer ANY manufacturer that advertises with us the opportunity to appear as a Guest Speaker for two hours of live interaction with me as moderator. We've had great success with this on Barrel Horse World, and it is good for business, good for our members and often solves problems and creates tremendous good will.
ATTN: OWNERS OF SUNDOWNER TAILERS
