Posted 2007-06-22 7:15 PM (#62673) Subject: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
New User
Posts: 4
We custom ordered a Cimmeron 5 horse 10 ft. s.w. in 2004. The trailer went directly from the factory to the conversion place and nothing new has been added to it since we received it. We have had trouble with the tires ever since we got it. I would say we have blown 8 or 9 tires on it and probably have only 18,000 miles on it. We have been trying to get these problems solved but cant get the main issue addressed. The trailer, empty, weighs 12,000 pounds and came with 7,000 pound axles. Both of the torsion axles have no arch left in them, they are completley straight, due to overload. We have 4 brand new heavy duty tires and all of them are wearing heavily on the inside. We really like this trailer and just want the correct axles on it so we can use it! It is pretty hard to have that much money in a trailer and not be able to get down the road in it!!!! Every manufacturer, repair place, dealership and tire place we have talked to has said that the axles are way too light and should have never been put on this trailer. I dont know how everyone else could know this, except Cimmeron. Any ideas?
Posted 2007-06-23 5:43 AM (#62688 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
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Posts: 1283 Location: Home of Wild Turkey Whiskey
Originally written by HPH on 2007-06-22 7:15 PM
We custom ordered a Cimmeron 5 horse 10 ft. s.w. in 2004. The trailer, empty, weighs 12,000 pounds and came with 7,000 pound axles. I dont know how everyone else could know this, except Cimmeron. Any ideas?
First line says you custom ordered the trailer, why did you only put 7000 lb axles under it? It should have been about the third or forth question from the salesman. Cimmeron's order sheet does ask for axle rating desired. Wouldn't have been that much higher to upgrade.
Posted 2007-06-23 8:48 AM (#62691 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
Regular
Posts: 79
I doubt the majority of people are going to know to ask about axles on their custom ordered trailer. There are other things that a custom order customer usually concentrates on.
When you custom build a trailer from Sundowner they send the draft off to the engineering department. They review the order and make sure the trailer has the proper equipment on it. If you build a 12,000lbs trailer with 7000lbs axles they will tell you that it needs to be upgraded. I don't know if Cimarron does this, but I can't see how they could get by without doing that. I would think that as a company you would have a lot of angry customers if someone didn't review the drafts. The average customer is not an engineer.
Posted 2007-06-23 9:55 AM (#62693 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
Member
Posts: 10
Location: Denton,Texas
Have you talked to Cimarron about this or just their competitors I am sure they would try to help out and I would think the salesman would have had some concept of what the trailer would weigh.I do not know what kind of conversion is in it but that trailer sure seems heavy I can't imagine it weighing that muchas a shell on a 4 horse 10 ft is around 6,500 and with a conversion in it weighs about 9,500.I do agree that this trailer should have heavier axles on it but maybe the salesman tried cheaping the deal up and told Cimarron you just were getting a shell and the 7000 lbs axles were plenty as I am guessing the shell weighed around 7,000 and I have always been told conversions are around 300 lbs a foot on the SW.It might weigh this much loaded.
Posted 2007-06-23 11:53 AM (#62697 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
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Posts: 4
We have talked with Cimmeron several times and they say 7000 lb axles are fine for the trailer. When the trailer was built at the factory they also had the floor plans for the LQ.
Posted 2007-06-23 12:02 PM (#62698 - in reply to #62691) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
New User
Posts: 4
Thank you! We are definatley getting a great axle education now, but would have loved to know about all of this beforehand , or at least know the manufacturer would take care of such things. We would have been more than happy to pay for an axle upgrade if we would have known that we wouldnt be able to keep tires under it.
Posted 2007-06-23 2:00 PM (#62701 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
New User
Posts: 1
Location: Hudson, CO
Wow. In the past I never really paid attention to the axles when I purchased a trailer. Guess I will from now on. It is amazing to me that Cimmeron wouldn't correct the problem. Sounds like they knew exactly what they were building for you, and it appears it's a huge error on their part. This is all good to know - won't be buying a Cimmeron if they won't stand behind something as important as the axles!
Posted 2007-06-23 4:01 PM (#62708 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402 Location: Lockport, Illinois
As Chadsalt stated earlier, what is your pin weight. The pin weight subtracts from the weight of the trailer. I have a 2001 4-Star with two 8,000 axles, the tag states it has a 19,600 GCVW, which is 3,600 lbs over the 16,000 carrying weight of the axles, hence 4-star feels that the truck is carrying 3,600 lbs of the 19,600 GCVW.
My trailer is a 5-horse with a mid-tack,the 235/85R16G tires were over $1,000 extra, they are 14-ply instead of 10-ply.
Posted 2007-06-23 5:48 PM (#62714 - in reply to #62708) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
New User
Posts: 4
How do you find the pin weight? We purchased 4 Goodyear 14 ply tires (costing us $250 each) that now have about 5,000 miles on them and all four have worn so badly on the inside that they have been pulled off and turned around and already the insides are worn. If the trailer was not over weighted how can my axles be straight?
Posted 2007-06-23 6:25 PM (#62715 - in reply to #62714) Subject: Often the factory removes the fuse for the hot lead.
Member
Posts: 36 Location: Trout Creek, MT
Originally written by HPH on 2007-06-23 5:48 PM
How do you find the pin weight? We purchased 4 Goodyear 14 ply tires (costing us $250 each) that now have about 5,000 miles on them and all four have worn so badly on the inside that they have been pulled off and turned around and already the insides are worn. If the trailer was not over weighted how can my axles be straight?
I would imagine there is a chance something wasn't built correctly, (besides the wt rating of the axles) If you've had this problem from day one (and it sounds like you have) I would take it back and insist it get addressed under warranty. If all of your tires are wearing out uniformly, I would doubt its bent axles causing the problem. It would seem unlikey that both axles are bent the same amount and exactly in the middle, which is what would be required for all four tires to wear out in the same spot. Good luck. Oh, and to find your pin weight take your trailer to a scale, weigh the truck then do it again without the trailer, the difference would be the pin weight.
Posted 2007-06-23 10:48 PM (#62726 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
Elite Veteran
Posts: 736 Location: Western WA
On a similar note, when I was shopping for a LQ trailer, I looked at one that was rated for 12,000 lbs GVR, and then found out that it weighed 11,000 lbs EMPTY. This was a three horse trailer, so at the very least I would have expected it to be able to haul 14,000 (empty trailer + three horses). Anybody understand how this could be or why?
Posted 2007-06-24 7:54 AM (#62736 - in reply to #62726) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
Expert
Posts: 1416 Location: sc
Originally written by headhunter on 2007-06-23 11:48 PM
On a similar note, when I was shopping for a LQ trailer, I looked at one that was rated for 12,000 lbs GVR, and then found out that it weighed 11,000 lbs EMPTY. This was a three horse trailer, so at the very least I would have expected it to be able to haul 14,000 (empty trailer + three horses). Anybody understand how this could be or why?
BigT basically explained that 4 posts up. some manufacturers add the pin weight into the gvwr, some only count the axles.
Posted 2007-06-24 5:12 PM (#62750 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
Veteran
Posts: 148 Location: columbia tn
good luck dealing with cimmeron, i tried dealing with them on my 04 wrong roof material and they just will not stand behind there product.. so sad such a nice trailer with no on to back them...the dealers can only do so much...i will not ever buy another one... good luck to you
Posted 2007-06-25 9:32 AM (#62790 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534 Location: Zionsville, Indiana
Sorry, couldn't stay out of this one. As to the statement that the axles are straight, not bowed, the torsion axle beams do have some camber, but at a glance you would say that they were straight. It is not an obvious bow.
When tires wear on the inside, it is an indication that the spindles are bent. Axles rarely bend in the middle. Do the tires look "tipped in" at the top when viewed from the front or the rear? We call this a bent axle, but in reality it is the spindle at the end of the beam where the hub rides that is bent.
The beams can easily be replaced, but to get higher weight capacity axles, the entire axle including hubs and brake assemblies must be replaced. That also would involve higher rated tires. To upgrade 16" tires beyond a load range G, 14 ply, most manufacturers go to 17.5" tires, which might not fit your current axle spacing and fender placement.
Cimmaron is an honorable, knowledgable outfit. (NO, I am not nor have I ever been a Cimmaron dealer). Call them and talk to them about your problem. I feel confident that they will help with a solution.
Posted 2007-06-26 2:14 AM (#62852 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
Veteran
Posts: 143 Location: southeast U.S.A.
We have 7000# torsion axle's on our trailer and it is a 4 horse with 81/2' shortwall shell. Not to say that they wouldn't be within ratings on your 5 horse w/10' shortwall, but I would personaly feel that they where a bit overloaded in your situation. As to the axle's being without any "arch" in them,this may be so, but I fail to see any logical way that there being overloaded could possibly straighten the "arch" out , that is if there constructed the same way as the ones on our trailer.When I looked under ours( this post really got my curiosity up), I seen a couple of potential weak spots that would certainly bend or break long before the pressure would ever bend the axle, notably the spindle or the bar that is incased in rubber that holds the swingarm. On our trailer the axle are welded thru a angle iron frame that is in turn bolted directly to the trailer frame. In order to bend the axle straight it would have to either bend the angle iron frame, break the bolts holding it to the trailer, or both! Either way it's just my opinion that something would break before the axle would straighten. Good luck with the tire situation, and good luck with Cimmeron !
Posted 2007-06-26 11:55 AM (#62873 - in reply to #62673) Subject: RE: Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
Member
Posts: 11
Location: Fort Lupton, CO
Alko axles don't have any arch to them. Dexter axles have arch from the factory so this is why when you just look at an axle there will be differences. Both good axles just made different.
Cimmeron 5 horse LQ can only haul 1 horse
