Posted 2006-11-26 4:55 PM (#51935 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 333
well, it is hard to say... I saw a HD truck pulling a bobcat have something similar happen, all of a sudden the trailer starting swaying back and forth and it was a classic case of "tail wags dog". All of us on the highway were safe, but the truck/trailer swung around about 3 times before the truck/trailer, still hitched together, ended up stopping in a ditch, still upright. Across the interstate, at pretty much the exact same spot, was a travel trailer that must have had the same thing happen, only it flipped over. The police were cleaning up that accident when the Bobcat truck had its little episode (that was darn right scary) but the amazing part was that no one on our side of the interstate was hurt or even knocked into. That was the scariest thing I ever saw, that Bobcat/trailer just easily swinging that truck around.
Why would that happen? Same thing? not enough truck for the trailer?
Posted 2006-11-26 5:34 PM (#51937 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Expert
Posts: 1416
Location: sc
what the inexperienced/"not enough truck" people dont seem to understand is that even an empty 2h trailer(say ~3000#) is WAY more than enough weight to drag ANY truck, even the mighty dually, off the road when things go bad. things can turn to s*** just that fast, and it makes no difference how stiff the suspension is, how solid it feels, or how big the brakes are, a 3000# tail will wag any dog.
Posted 2006-11-26 5:39 PM (#51938 - in reply to #51935) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Veteran
Posts: 238
Location: West Coast
There's no way to know whether or not that 1/2 ton truck was overloaded, but chances are that the truck's suspension was pretty close to it's max weight rating. Yes, just about any fishtailing trailer can pull a truck around, even an HD, but the heavier the truck the more it's going to take to affect the truck.
I've hauled bumper pull trailers with 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. In my experience, the difference in stability between a 1/2 ton & 3/4 truck is really significant, expecially when something happens that puts additional pressure on the suspension. This is why I will not pull a horse trailer, even a 2 horse, with a 1/2 ton truck.
And no, I am not saying you need a dually to haul a 2 horse trailer, but I wouldn't pull a horse trailer with anything less than a 3/4 ton truck. A fishtailing trailer that may be recoverable with a larger truck may not be recoverable with a 1/2 ton truck. When your lives and your horses lives are at stake, you prepare for the worst, you don't go in unprepared and hope for the best.
My thoughts: Perhaps not too small a truck, but a truck and trailer not properly balanced and/or equiped. The second paragraph of the article talks about the horses shifting weight. Further reason to remember that horses are NOT a load of bricks.
Posted 2006-11-26 8:24 PM (#51945 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 333
well, in the 1970's, I pulled a two horse with a Ford Bronco 4X4. I didn't know better and it pulled fine. I only took one horse most of the time and had a very small Stidham two horse walk through. Nice trailer, rig pulled fine. I pulled a lot of miles in those days.
Posted 2006-11-26 11:39 PM (#51946 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544
Location: Claxton, Ga.
I think the truck was plenty with a 2 horse BP. My question would be how fast was the driver going. I don't know what it is but some people have a heavy right foot when pulling a trailer with horses. I saw a women pulled over by a state patrol that had a large LQ trailer. He was writing her a ticket. Just last week I saw a person with a large SilverLite going down the interstate doing 80 MPH at night in the cold with horses. They even had the back open with a buggy hanging out. Beat that horse was cold. People just do stupid things all because they are in a hurry.
Posted 2006-11-27 5:50 AM (#51949 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia
Hitting the brakes on a swaying trailer or turning with it etc.is a no no.Hit the gas or hit the slide on trailer brake controler and straighen rig out.But don't hit the truck brakes.
Posted 2006-11-27 10:29 AM (#51958 - in reply to #51949) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 366
Location: Albany, Oregon
Maybe he didn't have his horse tied in the trailer wandering around....hangs out in the back of the trailer....Less tounge weight....guess what?! A load shift!
Posted 2006-11-27 2:18 PM (#51960 - in reply to #51958) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Expert
Posts: 2689
I think the article says that the driver said he "corrected the sway, but then it went the other way" (paraphrased).
It reads to me like a sway induced over correction induced worse sway induced further over correction induced rollover - (maybe off by a count or two).
Two horses in a bumper pull don't have much space in which to shift their weight, OK a bit of butt wiggle maybe a bit of forward/backward stuff, but not enough to throw the trailer significantly off track.
Methinks he mistook truck windage for weight shift )-:
Posted 2006-11-29 5:10 PM (#52039 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Veteran
Posts: 109
Now I think I will throw this into the ring. Nephew was coming back from eastern Washington from a hunting trip. Got stopped by the State Patrol. Reason driving two fast, 3/4 ton hauling a 20 foot box trailer for the toys, speed 75 mph. The officer told him that because he was hauling a trailer it made him a truck, i.e. big truck and that speed is 60 mph posted. Don't know if that is true or not but something to think about.
Posted 2006-11-29 6:21 PM (#52042 - in reply to #52039) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Expert
Posts: 1416
Location: sc
Originally written by inWA on 2006-11-29 6:10 PM
Now I think I will throw this into the ring. Nephew was coming back from eastern Washington from a hunting trip. Got stopped by the State Patrol. Reason driving two fast, 3/4 ton hauling a 20 foot box trailer for the toys, speed 75 mph. The officer told him that because he was hauling a trailer it made him a truck, i.e. big truck and that speed is 60 mph posted. Don't know if that is true or not but something to think about.
several states have "truck with trailer" speed limits.
Posted 2006-11-29 6:27 PM (#52043 - in reply to #52042) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Veteran
Posts: 238
Location: West Coast
Originally written by chadsalt on 2006-11-29 6:21 PM
Originally written by inWA on 2006-11-29 6:10 PM
Now I think I will throw this into the ring. Nephew was coming back from eastern Washington from a hunting trip. Got stopped by the State Patrol. Reason driving two fast, 3/4 ton hauling a 20 foot box trailer for the toys, speed 75 mph. The officer told him that because he was hauling a trailer it made him a truck, i.e. big truck and that speed is 60 mph posted. Don't know if that is true or not but something to think about.
several states have "truck with trailer" speed limits.
California is one of them, 55 for vehicles with trailers
Posted 2006-11-30 4:14 AM (#52049 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Location: Del Mar, CA
I have always heard that the way out of a fishtail is to accelerate and pull the trailer into a straight path, is that still the best advice and does it need to be a considerable increase, seems like it would given the amount of weight being straightened out??? Good tip about using the brake controller to slow things down from behind!
Posted 2006-11-30 5:33 AM (#52050 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Expert
Posts: 1205
Location: Danielsville Georgia
Usually dosen't take much accel to make one straighten out.If you think quick and activate by hand the brake controller it also staightens the trailer out quick.You do not hit brakes on tow vehicle or come off the gas.
Posted 2006-11-30 6:28 PM (#52072 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Regular
Posts: 50
Location: Colorado
We used to have a 1/2 ton 4X4 truck and pulled a 2H BP all over the place with it, including Wolf Creek and Monarch Passes in Colorado in bad weather. Never had a single problem ever. Light acceleration (and I do mean LIGHT) does work when the roads are icy to keep a trailer that would like to JK, though it goes against instincts for the most part.
It sounds like there was more to the story than we might be reading. Trailers don't just come over for no reason, and two horses cannot occupy one space to throw it off that badly unless one climbs on top of the other. Maybe the guy was on his cell phone. Just kidding!!! Glad the horses were okay.
I do prefer our 3/4 ton though. I was told the only difference (for the most part) between a 3/4 T and a 1 T is extra leaf springs and heavier shocks. I'll bet some of the truck experts have something to say about that.
Posted 2006-12-03 9:46 AM (#52138 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Member
Posts: 40
I drive a 3/4 ton and was pulling a 3 horse with living quarters fully loaded from Emm. Mo. last year going in town, 20 mph when all of a sudden a very sharp turn (darned near 90 degree turn) and wet conditions when the trailer started to slip and turn. My husband was with me and doesnt know a whole lot about pulling, he's going nuts and put the gas to it and somehow made it around the turn. Sometimes the unexpected happens even if you are doing everything right
Posted 2006-12-03 1:47 PM (#52142 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
Location: Illinois
I have no problem with the rig used. Although there are cases of tow vehicle being inadequet for the trailer they are towing, I find more often than not the accidents occur from driving too fast (especially in wet weather of any kind), fatigued driver, alcohol, or driver distractions (lighting cigarettes, talking on the phone, etc...
In this case a half ton should tow a basic two horse just fine. Now once you start adding tack rooms, more than two horses and such, probably not a a good idea. I drove thousands of miles literally (towed to and from Chicago, IL and Minot, North Dakota when I was in the Air Force. Amongst other places when I was camping a lot with my old horse and barrel racing a bit.) with a little bitty two horse and a 1991 Chevy S10 manual trans 2.8 liter engine, rated a half ton. I did add helper springs to it for added stability. Never had a problem due to size of truck and trailer. Did get a lot of 'Did you tow that here with that?' Um, Duh? how else would my horse and I have gotten here? It was great for squeezing into parking spaces at shows. ;) Much as I love my 3/4 ton now and the horses enjoy the larger trailer I'm sure too, (next one's gonna have a tack room ;) ) But, damn I miss getting nearly 24 mpg towing. Heck it got 29 when I wasn't towing, should never had sold that little truck.
Posted 2006-12-07 8:18 PM (#52299 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 309
Location: MO
We all have "gotten away" with some including pulling a trailer with a 1/2 t truck. Sure, the truck will pull the trailer. But, when something happens, and they can happen quickly, you're in a heap of trouble.
Posted 2006-12-07 9:04 PM (#52300 - in reply to #52299) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Expert
Posts: 1416
Location: sc
Originally written by Cloud9 on 2006-12-07 9:18 PM
We all have "gotten away" with some including pulling a trailer with a 1/2 t truck. Sure, the truck will pull the trailer. But, when something happens, and they can happen quickly, you're in a heap of trouble.
a fully loaded 1/2 ton will be in no more trouble than a fully loaded 3/4 ton. people often confuse personal comfort levels with safety. thats why ratings are given by the manufacturer. i would also guess, that when it goes bad a 5500# 1/2 ton pulling 5000# of 2h bp would be in a better situation than a 7500# 3/4 ton pulling 15000# of 3h lq...........dont you think? the whole tail wagging the dog thing you know............
Posted 2006-12-07 9:05 PM (#52301 - in reply to #52299) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Expert
Posts: 2828
Location: Southern New Mexico
"The trailer started going to the right, and I turned the wheel to straighten it, and it went back on the other side even worse, and then I was flipping over."
It sounds like he overcorrected. You can flip any vehicle, with or without a trailer, doing that. I watched a SUV flip end over end after he passed me because he went to far over and caught the edge of the road, over corrected and ended up in the air. And he wasn't speeding.
Posted 2006-12-31 8:57 PM (#53099 - in reply to #51926) Subject: RE: Another Horse Rig Accident
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
Location: Illinois
I don't think I got away with anything. The S10 used to be a bigger small truck back then. Doesn't look too small for that old tiny trailer I had back then. Just came across this old picture, so figured I should share. Like I said, I really miss the fuel economy I got with this outfit.