Posted 2006-01-06 12:00 AM (#34993 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
All I keep saying is read and search.It has NOTING to do with Edmunds or Kelly Blue book.It has to do with facts and whats being talked about in the auto/truck world.I've read THE facts.iIm not going to try hunting them up.The FORD web sites don't like knowing about their trucks but its where most of it has been posted.Talk to some sales managers in auto dealers etc.Talk to techs and service managers in Ford stores that do a decent truck business.The 6.0 been eating their lunch.Enough of this thread I just hope some of you don't find out the hard way.All the info is out there.Ford posted the warranty moneys spent and the buyback figures.It was posted on TheDieselStop.com a while back.I belive it with no problem.I'm retired with about 30 years in the auto repair industary with 25 years running auto dealer service depts.I've seen many pigs in a poke over the years.wattch the dealers used truck lots.You'll see more late model 6.0s turning up.Folkes baling out.Been seeing the trend grow over the last year.More so as the warranty expires on them.
Posted 2006-01-06 12:31 AM (#34994 - in reply to #34993) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Member
Posts: 18
Location: Los Angeles, CA
What do you guys say we all just ignore hounddog on this subject from now on? The more we respond to him, the more his nonsense gets all over the internet, which I think just might be his agenda after all.
Posted 2006-01-06 7:29 AM (#35000 - in reply to #34902) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by krys on 2006-01-04 6:26 PM
IMO, the 06's haven't been out long enough to really say there are more problems. Give it a year or 2 before you decide that. And with the 05's, give it another year. I'm not just talking about Ford, but with any make. If the problem's with the 04's make you believe that they are not the truck for you, than that is your opinion. There is always be someone else down the road that will think it is the right truck for them. I personally don't really care about the make of my truck. It just has to be comfortable for ME and fit MY needs. Granted, seeing what your friends have had and the good and bad things that has happened to them may influence your decision. It all comes down to your decision and what you want, like and need. Im not saying that no one should not post their opinion of what they like or what has happened to them with a particular make, just some may be important and some may not. Some you would weigh heavier and others you would take with a grain of salt.
Right, they havn't been out long enough to say that they are LESS troublesome either - track records take track time, etc.
Nothing like a Ford vs GM vs Dodge topic to bring out brand name loyalties, buyers' remorse and just plain old ordinary
I might buy a Dodge Durango soon, I don't yet know how I'll defend THAT decision, but I'll probably find SOME rationale (-:
Oh Yeah - I saw on the idjit box last night that GM outsold Ford last year for the first time in many years. Sound byte news flashes being what they are. I think the Trailblazer outsold the Exploder. Whether or not that means it is a "better" vehicle, has better mahh_ketting, deeper discounts ("buyer incentives", excuse ME), etc. is debatable. I think KIAs outsell Mercedes - whatever THAT means.
(-:
WRT 6.0 specifically: Read ALL the diesel forums, they have ALL had problems with HPCR designs, which DO need cleaner fuel, better water separation, etc. These are NOT engines that can be run on lamp oil, kerosene, any old fuel a bit less volatile than gasoline. It seemed TO ME that GM was the first to encounter this, with the 6.6 duramax - and the first to really SOLVE it.
(subjective) Ford seemed to have treated it as a simple QC problem for too long, Dodge (Cummins) seemed to have had better filtration and water separation from day one.
Posted 2006-01-06 12:25 PM (#35016 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
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Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Its not so much a fuel problem with the Ford has with the G.M.or Dodge.The Ford is been hit hard with oil leaks,headgaskets,cracked manifold y pipes,turbo failure etc.First threads this A.M. on The dieselstop was about buy back trucks and 05s with headgastet issues.
Posted 2006-01-06 12:40 PM (#35018 - in reply to #35016) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
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Posts: 2689
Originally written by hounddog on 2006-01-06 12:25 PM
Its not so much a fuel problem with the Ford has with the G.M.or Dodge.The Ford is been hit hard with oil leaks,headgaskets,cracked manifold y pipes,turbo failure etc.First threads this A.M. on The dieselstop was about buy back trucks and 05s with headgastet issues.
Oh, I thought Ford owners just accepted that (little stuff) as "par".
What's a cracked y-pipe or turbo to a loyal customer ?
The whiners/gripers must be new Ford owners who aren't (yet) used to it, they will be.
(-:
Anyway, I'm just SO pleased that I didn't volunteer any of MY money to do an extended field test for them. If they'd GIVE me a truck - maybe, but I'd be SURE to sign up with USRider.
Seriously, the HPCR issues have been common and I really DO believe that GM, Bosch, Isuzu, et al were the first to hit them and the first to solve them.
General QC, lack of design verification testing, .... whatEVER - unacceptable.
Posted 2006-01-09 10:13 AM (#35167 - in reply to #35018) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1011 Location: Oregon
Sounds like my Dodge. It's been down for over a month and after $4000 in parts, the stealership has no idea what is wrong with it. Of course this has to happen 10K niles after the warrenty ran out. We are waiting on Diamler Chrysler in Detroit to answer the "help" call they sent out last Thursday.
Maybe you guys can help me. I hooked up my truck to my friends computer reader and it gave me 3 codes, all ECM/PCM communication error. Dodge told me to bring it in, After spending $180 for their diagnosis, they told me that my ECM went out. I spent $200 on one from a wrecked truck like mine. Took it in to be programmed and Dodge told me they couldn't so I was at their mercy to spend $1200 for them to fix it. Was fixed and brought it home and within 24 hours, it was back to not starting. Towed it back to Dodge and they told me that my fuel injection pump was bad. It was $2500, but they said they would pay for it. Got it in and they said it is starting, but they are still getting those communication error codes. They are at a loss of what to do now and have asked help from the "tech support". Five days later, Detroit still hasn't gotten back to them.
In the past 3 months, my truck has completely died when driving down the road. Hubby gotted started by unplugging all the fuses. Whether this really fixed it, I don't know. Twice it has tried to die when idling. I gave it more gas and everything was fine. Going down the road it sputtered a bit and again, I gave it more gas and it was fine. Numerous times it will turn over but it won't start. My check engine light is sometimes on. And for some reason, sometimes my air bag light is on and the ckeck gages light. All my gages look right. Any ideas??
Posted 2006-01-09 11:41 AM (#35174 - in reply to #35167) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
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Posts: 18
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Hey krys,
Try these forums related to Dodge's, they all have specific forums for your truck and/or type of problem and if you post there you should find some help.
Posted 2006-01-09 2:32 PM (#35187 - in reply to #35167) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
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Posts: 2689
Krys,
From the symptoms - and WITHOUT anything else - If it was mine I would be trying to understand what it is with the "communication errors".
Basically, if the various Exx and Pxx micro-computers can't understand each other they're likely to (paraphrased) "give up and default into a limp home mode".
From some of my background I have a very strong belief that electrical contacts are less reliable than the electronics that they interconnect, i.e. the plugs and sockets will usually fail before the circuit boards and the failures are most likely to be intermittent - at least initially. So although throwing in expensive circuit boards is simple and profitable to the shop, the problem is MUCH more likely to be in the connectors.
So, I'd get me a big ole can of contact cleaner, the biggest/best_est version of the schematics I could find (Mitchell's perhaps, but something better than Hayes or Chilton), particularly all the plug/socket connectors, then disconnect the battery and start unplugging sensors and xx_control modules and hose 'em off with contact cleaner. Along the way I'd be looking for corrosion in the connectors, frayed or abraded wires, etc.
I'd expect it to take a day, then I'd have the codes re-set and see which ones come back vs which ones have been scared off (-:
PS If the parts they've already put in there didn't fix it they shouldn't have charged you for their mis-diagnosis. Their learning curve shouldn't be a direct charge on your bill. Tell 'em to put the old ones back.
Posted 2006-01-09 3:55 PM (#35191 - in reply to #34444) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Expert
Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
The ecms/pcms(brain)and most radios CANNOT be swapped from one vehicle to the next.There was a HUGE blackmarket(stolen)business on these items and ther manufactures(along with insurance companys) got involved to put a stop to the blackmarket sale of these items.A high mileage or older vehicle CAN have more then one thing fail in a short period.The 1998.5 through 2002 Cmmins with the VP44 fuel system has a pusher fuel pump(brings fuel from the fuel tank)to a injection pump(times and puts high pressure fuel through the injectors) If the pusher pump goes bad it starves the fuel cooled injection pump and lots of times hours/days/weeks later the damaged injection pump fails.Both give a similar sputter,die,won't run etc.Its a common repair.I have NO clue to the ECM problem other then battery voltage(cables etc)has to be 100% correct.No hidden corrosion etc.Join a few of the FREE Dodge diesel sites and post there.
Posted 2006-01-09 8:59 PM (#35222 - in reply to #35187) Subject: RE: Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1011 Location: Oregon
Reg, you may have something there. DC tech support finally called back. They think is seems to be a short in my wiring harness. Which is what the stealership first told me. But they said they went thru it all and didn't find anything. That is why they went with their second diagnosis of my ECM being bad. I told them that if it was a short, then I shouldn't had put a new ECM in. Their response "the short or other problem in my truck is what made the ECM go bad". I will try and get my $1200 back for the ECM. According to 2 diesel mechanics and another local Dodge dealership ECM's and PCM's are reprogramable as long as you have the expensive equipment to do it. One shop told me they could do it if my truck was older, but he didn't have the newer equipment to do the newer trucks.
Anyways, we shall see what they tell me tomorrow. I am about ready to trade this in on a new Dodge anyway. All I have to do is sell my 'vette (wrong time of year) so I won't have the payments on it. Anyone want to buy it??
Ford vs. Chevy from a Newbie
