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50 amp service

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Last activity 2005-08-26 9:54 PM
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justinc
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2005-08-22 3:50 PM (#29487)
Subject: 50 amp service


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Posts: 24

Location: buchanan,MI
Do you think your trailer should have one 50 amp lifeline or divide the load and have two 30 amp cords? Are there many parks with 50 amp service available?
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-08-22 4:14 PM (#29488 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Location: North Carolina

RV parks catering to the RV crowd might have the higher power supplies.  BUt the horse camps I'm at, are a bit less inclined.

They only have a 30 amp service at the most.  Some have two 20 amp receptacles.  I chose to wire my horse trailer for two 20 amp inlets.  Each serves a single circuit.  I bonded only the grounds and the trailer together.  Otherwise the circuit's neutrals and hots are isolated from each other.  Any other way trips GFIs at the power post.

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Sheryl
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-08-22 4:23 PM (#29489 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Location: Tennessee

hosspuller - can you elaborate on this set-up?  I also have two 20amp breakers.  One for the a/c only, the other serves everything else.  If I plug into a GFI outlet with my 30amp cord, it trips.  Non-GFI, no problem.  Have not been able to isolate the problem, have checked all outlets, etc.

Thanks

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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-08-22 6:51 PM (#29494 - in reply to #29489)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Originally written by Sheryl on 2005-08-22 3:23 PM

hosspuller - can you elaborate on this set-up?  I also have two 20amp breakers.  One for the a/c only, the other serves everything else.  If I plug into a GFI outlet with my 30amp cord, it trips.  Non-GFI, no problem.  Have not been able to isolate the problem, have checked all outlets, etc.

Sheryl .. 

First be safe, unplug your trailer, double check... Since you say you have "a" cord I'm assuming you've got a single 120 volt plug.  Then, Look in your breaker box.  The white(neutral) and the ground (green) are likely connected together.  They will need to be separated.  The ground (green) should be connected to the metal of the box and the metal of the trailer.  You might have to break a metal strip (tie) and move all the greens and the whites to separate bars.  ASK someone knowlegeable to check your work if this doesn't sound familar.

 
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Rooster69
Reg. Jul 2005
Posted 2005-08-23 8:06 AM (#29510 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Posts: 6

Most of the horse camps that I go to do not have 50 amp service. If you install a 50 amp service and plug, be sure to have a 50 to 30 amo adapter with you at all times.

Concerning the question about the GFCI breaker trip, you might need to check all the receptacles in your trailer even if the neutral and ground at the box has been seperated. I have seen a bare ground wire come in contact with the neutral conductor inside the box. The best policy is to put electrical tape around the receptacle covering the bare screws so the ground can never come in contact.

 

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Sheryl
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-08-23 8:23 AM (#29511 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Location: Tennessee
Rooter, thank you for your suggestion.  I HAVE already checked the receptacles with a tester and they are fine.  The only thing not tested is the 30 amp cord from trailer to plug but the RV place I tried to order another one from says they NEVER fail unless I can see obvious injury to the cord.
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-08-23 8:41 AM (#29512 - in reply to #29511)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Originally written by Sheryl on 2005-08-23 7:23 AM

Rooter, thank you for your suggestion.  I HAVE already checked the receptacles with a tester and they are fine.  The only thing not tested is the 30 amp cord from trailer to plug but the RV place I tried to order another one from says they NEVER fail unless I can see obvious injury to the cord.

Sheryl ... The fault Rooster suggested, would not be indicated by the plug in outlet testers.  So if the path I suggested still doesn't fix your problem. get the receptecles checked. 

It might be faster to check the path between ground and neutral with a Ohm meter to see if there is a connection/short.

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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-08-23 8:53 AM (#29513 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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As a follow-up to Sheryl's question ... It seems a lot of LQ builders and trailer places treat a trailer breaker box as a "service entrance" bonding the neutral with the ground.   This is proper for a house, but most houses aren't served by a ground fault interrupter.  The GFI monitors current flow on the hot and neutral legs.  If it detects an unbalance (like if any current goes to ground) it trips.  This feature protects you from electrocution.
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justinc
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2005-08-23 9:46 AM (#29521 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Posts: 24

Location: buchanan,MI
I too have run into the situation with two shore cords "tripping" GFI protected circuits when plugged in at the same time, even when they are different circuits. I am under the impression this is a result of the common ground shared by grounding the bare copper wire to the trailer frame.
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-08-23 10:48 AM (#29523 - in reply to #29521)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Originally written by justinc on 2005-08-23 8:46 AM

I too have run into the situation with two shore cords "tripping" GFI protected circuits when plugged in at the same time, even when they are different circuits. I am under the impression this is a result of the common ground shared by grounding the bare copper wire to the trailer frame.

No .. Connecting the bare copper ground wire to the trailer frame is correct and proper.  Otherwise you could have a dangerous condition where the trailer is charged by a fault and insulated from ground by the rubber tires.  When someone then touches the trailer (Like opening a door) while standing on the grass, they get electrocuted.

Justinc : I believe your problem is the white wires (neutrals) of your two circuits are connected together.  The GFI is looking for an imbalance.  If current flows to the neutral of your other circuit, that's your imbalance and the GFI trips.  The neutrals of your two 120 volt shore circuits must be isolated from each other.

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justinc
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2005-08-23 11:09 AM (#29526 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Posts: 24

Location: buchanan,MI
After much confusion I called A tech from Leviton. He stated the trouble was in the wiring outside of the trailer. In this particular situation I will have to change the wiring of the GFI's I am  plugging my shore cords into so that there is nothing connected to the Load side on the back of my GFI.Which if I have another recep getting power fed from this GFI I will have to DOUBLE UP  on the LINE side. Hope this helps.
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hosspuller
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2005-08-23 2:04 PM (#29528 - in reply to #29526)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Location: North Carolina

Originally written by justinc on 2005-08-23 10:09 AM

After much confusion I called A tech from Leviton. He stated the trouble was in the wiring outside of the trailer. In this particular situation I will have to change the wiring of the GFI's I am  plugging my shore cords into so that there is nothing connected to the Load side on the back of my GFI.Which if I have another recep getting power fed from this GFI I will have to DOUBLE UP  on the LINE side. Hope this helps.

Whoa !  Is the GFI that's tripping in your trailer or the campground power post?

I'm having a hard time understanding what the Levitron tech said to you.

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justinc
Reg. Jun 2005
Posted 2005-08-23 3:39 PM (#29532 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


Member


Posts: 24

Location: buchanan,MI
This is when plugging the shore cord into a GFI outlet.No problems in the trailer what-so-ever.Hope this helps anyone else out there with the same situation.Thanks Hosspuller for all your suggestions.
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dman
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2005-08-23 9:04 PM (#29544 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Posts: 11

Location: Syracuse

The neutral and ground have to be isolated when plugged in at public campgrounds with GFI.  I went through the same frustrations with a new used trailer that had been wired by previous owner.  RVs went to the 50 amp service to provide power to run 2 air conditioners at the same time along with power  for washer, dryers etc...  prior to the super huge motorhomes and 5th wheels with all the options almost all rvs ran the 30 amp service.  Currently most entry level rvs still use the 30 amp service.

 

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martyg
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2005-08-25 9:15 PM (#29614 - in reply to #29544)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service


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Posts: 216
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Location: Chillicothe, Ohio
I think this was said in these posts, but not sure.  Most trailers have a small ac service box with a few breakers.  Inside the box are usually 2 strip lugs, one for the green wires (ac grounds) and one for the white wires (ac commons), there is usually a jumper or screw that is attached to the common lug with the white wires that ties it to the metal ac service box.  I removed this jumper and this issue of tripping the park gfci breakers will go away.  likewise if you have all of your green and white wires tied to the same lugs, this will trip the gfci that you have your trailer plugged into.  The correct wiring setup is to have all your outlet/equpment green wires (ground) attached to the metal ac box and also to the trailer frame/body.  The white wires (common or returns) should be attached to an insulated lug within the ac box that is not connected to the metal ac box or trailer frame, the only connection to this lug should be to the large white connection wire that is attached to the main trailer plug.  Hope this helps.
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Painted Horse
Reg. May 2005
Posted 2005-08-26 9:54 PM (#29652 - in reply to #29487)
Subject: RE: 50 amp service



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I've been fighting an problem on my new trailer where it always pop's the GFI plug when I connect it to my house or my 20amp generator.  Everything ran just fine IF I plugged into a 30amp or 50amp house hold plug. After reading your post, I opened up the circuit break panel and looked in

There was a common block for the white, a common block for the Ground and all the blacks went into breakers. At first glace everything was in the right place. White on the white bus, Ground on the other bus.  But as I looked closer I found one ground wire was brushing against the bus that the white wires terminated on. I carefully bent the ground wire away from the bus.

Now everything works. I don't pop the GFI when I plug into the house.  My Yamaha EF2400is will run my Carier Air V A/C unit just fine.

Thanks for the tip.

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