Posted 2013-03-25 3:07 PM (#150842) Subject: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Member
Posts: 22
Location: Bellevue, NE
What is the best solution for pulling a gooseneck with a short bed truck? Trailer is 6'8" wide and truck bed is 5 1/2 feet long (Ford Super Crew). There is currently 27" between the back of the truck's cab and where the hitch ball would be, if I installed a normal gooseneck hitch (which I nearly did! oops!). I've seen extenders for the trailer's coupler (Sidewinders or similar), and sliding hitches for RV type 5th wheels (Power Glides), in my internet research, but not sure what would work best for a gooseneck ball. B&W makes a 4" extender plate too, but don't want my weight moved behind the axle. Anyhow, thought this forum would know what the most effective, safe, and least expensive methods are. You guys know EVERYTHING! Tried to do a search for previous posts about this, but I guess I wasn't putting the right search terms because I didn't get any results.Thanks for your help!
Posted 2013-03-25 3:19 PM (#150843 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Member
Posts: 20
I pull a 28 ft. horsetrailer with my shortbed Chevy almost everyday. no extender, standard placement BW hitch. Never have had an issue. you just actually have to pay attention instead of just drive.
Posted 2013-03-25 3:24 PM (#150844 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Regular
Posts: 79 Location: Alberta Canada
I pull a gn 8 wide trailer, 3horse, with a dodge short box. I have a b&W hitch with the 4 inch extender. The extender does not move the weight back behind the axle, its still ahead of the axle, it just couples behind the axle. Without the extender it was nip and tuck to make a turn without punching out the back window or cab. I now have quite a bit more room for turns. I still have to watch carefully when backing up, it is easy to jackknife a gn trailer when backing. I don't believe you will have any issues with a 6ft 8 wide trailer and the 4 inch extension.
Posted 2013-03-25 5:21 PM (#150846 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402 Location: Valentine, NE
Yours is a 5.5' box which makes a big difference than the previous poster's 6.5' box. I wouldn't pull it without at least an extender. The extender will not move the weight behind the axle as the hitch contacts the truck in the same spot as a regular ball. This will not make a diffence. Yes, if you are careful, you can do it, but my 5.5' boxed Ford Super Crew, states it can haul the tongue weight, but if I put 800 pounds of feed in the box, it sags something terrible and drives worse. Might want to see what your tongue weight will be and load the box with that much weight to see how that works 4 u.. Good luck.
Posted 2013-03-25 5:37 PM (#150848 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Member
Posts: 22
Location: Bellevue, NE
The trailer only weighs about 3400# but I do plan on installing HD Rancho shocks on the rear here shortly anyway. I've seen extenders in 9" or 16" lengths. I'm thinking I might want the 16" but don't know what the disadvantage might be. I had read somewhere that I may need to worry about the gussets under the trailer hitting my bed rails.
Posted 2013-03-26 9:41 AM (#150858 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402 Location: Valentine, NE
The 16" might be too much as you mentioned. You might ask the shock vendor how much the new shocks help with the sag. Might look at installing air bags instead of shocks. Will cost a little more, but than you can tow with the vehicle level. I question if the shocks will help with keeping the sag out of the vehicle????
Good luck!
Posted 2013-03-26 9:04 PM (#150878 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Bethel, Oh
I posted a similar thread a month ago when we bought our trailer. I have the 6'7" ford short bed F350. My trailer is 8' wide, no taper. I own both the 4" b & w hitch extender and the 9" pop up extender. the 4" alone was just not enough clearance imo. I am quite happy with the 9" extender. still cannot get a full 90 degrees when backing, but not sure you want to do that anyway? (new gooseneck owner, had bp trailer for 12 years, so take that with a grain of salt).
we are still adjusting our coupler, and I am not sure yet I have enough rail clearance. so far have only hauled the trailer empty on level roads.
I had the turnover b & w hitch installed, and my installer said there is only one place they can put them on a short bed truck, so there it went. (in front of the axle). lol if you want to try the 4" extender mine is just sitting in the backseat of my truck now not being used! Good luck!
Posted 2013-03-26 10:25 PM (#150880 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
They do make air adjustable shocks that can be fed with a compressor or a simple air chuck and flex lines. This is similar to the varied installations of air bags. A more simple and inexpensive alteration, is the installation of Timbren overload springs. They have no maintenance and will always ensure a predetermined ride height of the body, regardless of their load.
Posted 2013-03-27 9:52 AM (#150892 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385 Location: high desert, CA.
I second Gard's suggestion on Timbren overload supports.Have worked well for us, and don't change the ride quality empty, and are WAAAAY cheaper to install.
Posted 2013-03-27 6:27 PM (#150905 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Member
Posts: 22
Location: Bellevue, NE
So, what exactly are these springs and how much do they cost? Could a shade-tree mechanic install them? If not, how much is installation? Ball-park is fine. Starting to think I should just buy another truck, but this one best meets our needs. Thought going with the short, light trailer would allow us to keep current truck. I have a 2008 F150 FX4 Supercrew with towing package (aux cooler, heavy duty brakes, etc., etc.), 5.4L V8, 3.73 rears, 138.5 wheelbase, 5.5' bed. The trailer weighs 3400# empty weight. I figured it would weigh 6500 max, loaded. Truck weighs 6280# with my husband and myself, and a full tank of gas (truck stop scale). I didn't think sag would be my problem. I asked my mechanic about it last fall and he just suggested that I put the Rancho HD shocks on (but it might already have those...I read on Ford forum that the FX4 has Rancho shocks), and he hauls ALOT of stuff, with various vehicles. He said he would be very surprised if I exceeded 1000# pin weight.My main concern was finding the clearance I needed with short bed and square nose trailer. I mean, I appreciate ALL info but I hope everyone is looking at the whole picture (specs of truck and trailer) when making these suggestions. I'm getting pretty discouraged from them. LOL
Posted 2013-03-27 10:05 PM (#150909 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Veteran
Posts: 264 Location: Sumas Washington
This has been discussed before and I have been shot down. But here goes again, :The hitch extension DOES move the weight of the trailer pin behind the rear axle. This is a simple act of leverage, any 8th grade math student can easly figure this out. Now DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE?? On most rigs no it does not make a noticable difference in handling or performance of your rig. If you are towing with a light pickup and have a heavy pin weight trailer there will be less weight on the front tires. Most diesel trucks have enough front axle weight so this effect is not noticable
Posted 2013-03-28 8:51 AM (#150914 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Veteran
Posts: 264 Location: Sumas Washington
Just take a shovel ( or any 4' long bar), stick the skinny end in your reciever and exert 150# of force to it and measure how far the suspension defllects. Now remove the shovel and press on the bumper with the same 150# of force. Did the suspension deflect the same?? If you have ever used a hammer, end wrench, shovel or wheelbarrow you have used leverage to exert a mulitplied force. I would try to make this simpler, but it is not really possible.
Posted 2013-03-28 10:12 AM (#150915 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Member
Posts: 20
The trouble with your argument here is that you are moving the fulcrum. With the hitch extender the fulcrum stays in the same place but the lever gets longer. Yes you will add a little more weight to the pin, but not necessarily to the rear axle. if you physically moved the pin back then yes but since the pin never moved it would be way less.
Posted 2013-03-28 11:29 AM (#150919 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Regular
Posts: 55
I have a B&W with the 4" extension and the nose of my trailer is tapered and I can jack knife it all over the place without a problem on my short bed Ford. The weight ofyour trailer will not be shifted back too far.
Posted 2013-03-28 8:20 PM (#150931 - in reply to #150915) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Veteran
Posts: 264 Location: Sumas Washington
Originally written by TKLeather on 2013-03-28 8:12 AM
The trouble with your argument here is that you are moving the fulcrum. With the hitch extender the fulcrum stays in the same place but the lever gets longer. Yes you will add a little more weight to the pin, but not necessarily to the rear axle. if you physically moved the pin back then yes but since the pin never moved it would be way less.
I will just stop trying to explain how leverage works, Apparently the work I have done on installing hitches for customers and weighing axles of pickup-GN trailers and class 8 semis will prove nothing. As I said before the difference is small but it is there,
Posted 2013-03-28 9:54 PM (#150933 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402 Location: Valentine, NE
Been 20 years since my engineering and physics classes, but I must add my 2 cents again. I tried to find the formula to figure this out, but to no avail.
Anyway, I think we are are talking about two different types of force. We have the down pressure of the trailer nose and than we have the rotation force or torque applied to the hitch with an extension.
To me, the down pressure or weight of the trailer will not change...it can't. But the torque on the hitch changes dramatically due to the previously mentioned fulcrum effect.
So, with an extender, the weight being carried on the tow unit is the same.
But what effect does the torque being multiplied have on the hitch? IMO, it would be insignificant. Try to use a 4" (or the same length of the extender) torque wrench.....pretty hard to get much mechanical advantage until you get to >14" or so.
But open for more discussion......
Posted 2013-03-28 11:02 PM (#150936 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Veteran
Posts: 264 Location: Sumas Washington
I understand your assesment, The weight on the truck is EXACTLY THE SAME, just shifted to the rear of the truck (I agree) slightly. BUT there must be a good reason that all GN hitches locate the ball a few inches ahead of the center of the rear axle. If it did not make any difference would you not locate the ball behind the center of the axle for ease of use?
Posted 2013-03-29 6:06 PM (#150950 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Expert
Posts: 3853 Location: Vermont
This discussion should be about CANTILEVERS rather than levers...:)Here is a little example that lets you calculate the beam loading of the extension...http://www.efunda.com/formulae/solid_mechanics/beams/casestudy_display.cfm?case=cantilever_endload
Posted 2013-03-29 6:26 PM (#150953 - in reply to #150842) Subject: RE: Pulling GN with short bed truck
Member
Posts: 22
Location: Bellevue, NE
So, I would be better off with the extender that moves the coupler 9" ahead, as opposed to the B&W extension that moves the ball 4" to the rear? But, this may all be a moot point now because hubby is truck shopping. Oh well, I got to enjoy my zippy little truck for a couple of years (we had F350 dually before this one).
Pulling GN with short bed truck
Since you have grade 8, please explain in detail the simple act of leverage...