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Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer

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Lea Anne
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2009-07-11 8:24 PM (#107868)
Subject: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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Posts: 153
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Location: Grant City, Missouri
I have an 18 yr old gelding who refuses to back out of my Elite slant load trailer. He has always been hauled in the front stud stall. Last year I traded for a new trailer that has mangers. His stall has the escape door so no manger which gives him a lot of room but the manger of the next slot has caused him to freak out as it interferes with his turn around room. Now he practically bolts out with me trying to lead him out. Tonite I backed him the length of my 50' barn 3 times with treats as incentive. Thinking I had it figured out, we proceeded to the trailer but the treats didn't work in the trailer and I finally had to abort the lesson in the usual manner. I am considering putting him in the back slot. Has anyone had or know of someone who has had a bad experience putting a horse in the back slot and not being able to get him out? I don't think that he will be able to turn around but if he does try he could probably hurt himself really bad.
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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-07-11 10:11 PM (#107882 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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If your guy is used to turning around and you have not backed him out of the trailer from any other stall I don't think I would put him in the last stall and assume you will be able to back him out.  I made this mistake with my horse..I had never backed him out but because he backed SO well on the ground..I thought NO problem..He will back out.  Well he did not back out..even with me in the stall and asking him to back..he turned himself around tried to go out front ways and was temporarily STUCK between the outside wall and the rear tack with me in the stall with him.  Luckily he is a GUMBY horse and he finally managed to get out but it was NOT pretty. He nor I was hurt but it was not something I care to repeat.
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ponytammy
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2009-07-12 8:20 AM (#107891 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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We trainined a 10 year-old, 1100 pound wide gelding that had been trailered in stock trailer only. Age is not an issue, just his lack of training and experience. First thing is to ask for each step and then stop on the ground first- not quick backing mutliple steps like some folks do under saddle. You want the whoa immediate so he doesn't turn around or bolt backward.

You'll also need a long lead rope and small crop to straighten the hip if he swings his hind end out of position in an attempt to turn. A stud chain is effective if he tries to bolt from you or using a rope halter that is similar to Clinton Anderson, Pat Parielli etc that has the pressure knots on the nose and poll. The object here is to keep the head and neck from bending into a turn.

After you get one step and whoa on the ground, increase to several steps and then whoa. Once you have control of his feet movement, I'd start by asking for front feet first only in the trailer and then back out (do this several times) and then go in a little ways then back. I always say step wheh hind feet get to the edge so they know that the edge of the trailer is at their back feet. Leave him at a straight position first and then go to the slant position only after he is comfortable backing out quietly.

Make sure your dividers are secure. And your mangers are not the problem in your current trailer, it is his inexperience at backing out of the trailer. We also used treats and a small bucket placed in front of his chest and after each step and whoa he got a reward. He got to looking for each step/whoa command to get the treat.

The key is to get each step or series of steps when asked and then a whoa. So you really need to be able to get one step at a time on the ground first and then try loading him. Remember to priase and stroke his neck or rub nis head (not a hard pat) after each step and whoa. Slow backing is what you are trying to accomplish here, so be patient.

Pretty soon he'll be loading on his own and then backing out quitely without you even going into the trailer. Just the back queue with the lead rope inside the manger window with the verbal queue and he should come out slowly and quietly.

 



Edited by ponytammy 2009-07-12 8:32 AM
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lesliemal
Reg. Sep 2007
Posted 2009-07-12 9:35 AM (#107892 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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I agree with ponytammy..your horse CAN be taught to back out. I just wanted to relate that assuming that he will do it from the last stall without already having done it before was not a good idea. My 20 year old gelding was taught to back out (not the horse refered to in the previous post). It took about 45 minutes of constant work and he was backing out very well. He had never backed out of a trailer as far as I know.
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Lea Anne
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2009-07-12 3:00 PM (#107909 - in reply to #107891)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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Posts: 153
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Location: Grant City, Missouri

Ponytammy,Thanks for the enouraging words.  How long did it take to teach your horse that?  Should I just do 1 lesson a day?  What am I going to do in the meantime?  Just continue to haul him and turn him around like I have been doing?  I guess until we get to the point of having lessons in the trailer I won't be hurting anything.  Like I said, he will back on the ground and he will back when I am riding but he has some issues.  I am embarrassed to tell this, but I got him in one of those wash racks with the pole dividers and it took me and about 5 men to get him out.  He was freaking out.  He wants to charge forward to get out instead of backing.  Other that this issue, he is a great trail horse but it is getting so that I'm not going to be able to trailer him cause one or both of us is going to get hurt. 

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ponytammy
Reg. Jan 2005
Posted 2009-07-12 6:10 PM (#107915 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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I completely understand the charging forward horse. The same gelding I mentioned had this issue too which made it difficult to stop him when he decided to turn around instead of back out of the trailer or go into the wash rack. He had ground manner and respect issues for our space which is why he would turn around in our space and walk out no matter how hard we tugged on him.

You will need to get control of his body by doing some ground work and teaching him your space and his. Clinton Anderson, Pareilli, Chris Cox etc all have excellent methods for training this. Along with trailer loading issues.

It took our gelding about a week with 30 minutes trailer loading lessons to learn to back out easily. He was going in and coming out on the first lesson of about an hour, but not so pretty coming out. And then another 3 weeks to learn to go SLOWLY. After several weeks of backing out he started speeding up when he got half way out of the three horse and then pop out quickly. We went back to the step/whoa exercise. Remember that every horse learns differently and on a different schedule. This gelding is somewhat hard headed and needs time to think between requests. If you push too hard you'll have a wreck.

Also don't be surprised if he starts balking at going into the trailer. This is where the praise becomes very important each times he goes in, in addition to backing.

It will help you if someone could assist you in keep his body straight through the offside of the trailer. Or ask a qualified trainer to help you for a few trailer lessons. Asking for assistance is a lot cheaper than a hospital bill.

By getting his front feet in first and then backing out will go along way in his confidence in you and himself. Just be very careful he doesn't rear up and come down on you. The possibilities of injury are endless in trailer loading. Go slow and always stop on a positve note on something he knows even if your trailer lesson was less than perfect.



Edited by ponytammy 2009-07-12 6:14 PM
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Lea Anne
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2009-07-12 8:33 PM (#107923 - in reply to #107915)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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Posts: 153
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Location: Grant City, Missouri
I worked him this morning and again tonite with the backing and whoa.  It doesn't seem to be a problem.  I will work with him again tomorrow morning.  Tomorrow night I have to take him to drill team practice.  Some friends have suggested just untying him from the outside and letting him go, which will keep me from getting run over.  He can turn around but he just gets in a hurry.  The hurry I don't mind as long as he doesn't hurt himself, or me.    I have never had a problem getting him in the trailer.  He has been hauled all over.  I'll keep you posted on how we are doing.
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huntseat
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2009-07-12 9:52 PM (#107929 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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Add a ramp to the trailer, and he'll quickly learn that it's 'safe' to back out of the trailer.  Backing down steep terrain is not natural for horses.  If you can't easily step upgoing in or step down going out backwards then how could you expect him to, and don't cheat by touching the walls when you try it.

Edited by huntseat 2009-07-12 9:56 PM
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JustMary
Reg. May 2008
Posted 2009-07-16 1:54 PM (#108125 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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Location: Missouri
Excellent advice by Ponytammy. I used the exact method on a gelding that forgot how to unload in the middle of his show career. One step, stop. One step, stop. He was so horrible for a time that we had to use a head bumper for fear he'd scalp himself. The treats are an invaluable aid; he quickly learned to stop at the midway of unload (fronts in and hinds out) for his treat. I wonder how helpful (or safe??)it'd be to leave the back door closed so that you can't lose control of him?. It'll take time but you have some great suggestions here.
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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2009-07-16 2:12 PM (#108128 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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I had a pal who insisted her gelding could not back out of a trailer. I disagreed,he has learned he doesn't have to. The trailer had a ramp ( and the hollow sound of a ramp can make a horse nervous)but when she asked him to back he simply wouldn't. If she started backing him, he simply went two steps, then forward. She was in the front and through the window I was there with a dressage whip. When he came forward,I tapped him until I got his attention..he went back one step at a time. We only tapped him when he went forward. Sometimes,horses need to be encouraged to do the right thing, in this case,it was a matter of tapping him with a whip til he figured he'd better go out. often we allow horses to do there own thing thinking we are getting along with them. But we are actually training them to do what they want. I bet this horse just doesn't respect the handler. That can be very dangerous in the long run. When i ask my horses to back up, they know they have no choice. Its not fear but a healthy respect for my space and authority.
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JustMary
Reg. May 2008
Posted 2009-07-16 3:35 PM (#108134 - in reply to #108128)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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Posts: 60
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Location: Missouri

Quote:  After you get one step and whoa on the ground, increase to several steps and then whoa. Once you have control of his feet movement, I'd start by asking for front feet first only in the trailer and then back out (do this several times) and then go in a little ways then back.

This is also invaluable.  I would work more on LOADING than un-loading at this point (as in, don't just let load up then unload).  Concentrate on the step in, whoa, step out, repeat repeat repeat.  2 steps in, whoa, etc.  Again, use those treats.  Make him stop ALWAYS at the mid-way out point (Manna Pro apple wafers are great for this training!)

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farmbabe
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2009-07-16 6:10 PM (#108138 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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I don't like the treat idea. Doing the right thing results in stopping for a period of time, allowing the horse to settle and relax,then asking again. Treats don't encourage good behavior, they might start a already disrespectful horse to become aggressive looking for a treat and not paying attention to the lesson.
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JustMary
Reg. May 2008
Posted 2009-07-17 5:55 AM (#108161 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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Posts: 60
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Location: Missouri
I agree that treats aren't necessarily the best training tool. In this case, however, it's a way for her horse to want to stay close, and it is a stop-gap (ways to an end). Of course it isn't the only way; I'm sure you have used different methods that also work. It WILL keep a horse calm and happy, though, while working through a difficult training issue. It worked like a gem on my horse, and he never became a cookie monster because of it.
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pasobeth
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2009-07-28 8:01 AM (#108656 - in reply to #107868)
Subject: RE: Senior Horse needs to learn to back out of trailer


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Location: Mt. Vision, NY - waaay upstate
To keep from getting either person or horse hurt, use two leadropes.  Hook one to each side of the halter.  It works best with two people - one rope per person, but is an effective way for one person to get the horse backed out of the trailer.  You stand well behind the trailer (or ramp) and "drive" the horse out.  You keep the horse at the correct angle by applying equal amounts of pressure on both ropes.  Many times I've bought a horse at auction, or elsewhere and loaded him right on, only to get home and find out the horse did not know how to back out of the straight load (or slant) trailer.  I have used this method successfully many times.  Yes, he'll curl his head and refuse to budge, but just be patient and keep applying equal pressure to the ropes and ask for "back".  They will give in eventually and not that long either.  After a few times, with no drama you will be able to just unhook the horse (if you hook them in the trailer) and just put your hand on their tail and say back and they will do it.  Age is not an issue - they all can/should learn this.  The main thing with this technique is...nobody gets hurt.
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