Posted 2009-03-31 10:14 AM (#102490) Subject: Trails West Trailers
Member
Posts: 29
I have a 2006 Trails west 4 horse living quarters trailer with a slide and I can not keep tires on it, it has about 10,000 tow miles on it, all freeway, and it has had four sets of tires. I think the trailer is to heavy for the tires and wheels, Mike at the Trails West factory does not and is not willing to do anything about it, so while I am having lemon decals made for it I thought I would see if anyone had any ideas on the fix. I am thinking of putting 17.5 or 18 inch tires on it or even added a third axle, since Trails West will not fix it anyway, this would not effect the warranty. Any ideas? 208-661-2590,, bat@batmastersonhorses.com
Posted 2009-03-31 10:47 AM (#102492 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Before you go to the expense of adding larger tires and wheels, it would be a good idea to know the capacity of your axles. If your present tires are at the maximum capacity of your axles, it will do little good to increase their load capacities.
Are your replacement tires of a good quality? There has been a considerable amount of discussion within this forum, about the characteristics of various brands. Most members have had poor results using Chinese built tires.
Your trailer is only as good as its weakest part. If the addition on a third axle is necessary, is the frame strong enough to accommodate this addition? This consideration would probably best discussed with a professional engineer.
If your trailer is under constructed for its weight, it might be better to bite the bullet and consider a replacement.
Posted 2009-03-31 11:33 AM (#102494 - in reply to #102492) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Member
Posts: 29
I purchased two sets if tires that Trails west recommended, then a set from Good Year Dealer and a set from Les Schwabb Dealer, the axle are 8500 oxles so they should support the weight.
Posted 2009-03-31 11:43 AM (#102496 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Elite Veteran
Posts: 781 Location: La Cygne, KS
Sounds like your trailers is not level. If it is rocked back, extra weight will be placed on the tires. My Trail Riding Buddies has a 3-horse, 12 foot short wall trailer that went through 7 tires in just three months. Problem was the trailer was not level.
Also, is the LQ from the factory or homemade? Sometimes homemade LQs exceed the axle and weight ratio for the trailer. I've seen full tongue and groove wood, plywood, full size fridge etc in a trailer that was not designed to carry all the extra weight.
Posted 2009-03-31 12:27 PM (#102501 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Member
Posts: 29
I am vey careful to be sure it is always level, in fact I have an airlift system on the truck that guarantees this. The living quarters was built by trails west
Posted 2009-03-31 3:49 PM (#102512 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
What happens when a tire fails? Is the thread badly scuffed or cupped? Does one part of the tire wear faster than another? Inside vs outside? Center of thread vs outside? Are all the tires failing or only the ones installed in one position?
Are the tires blowing out? If so where is the damage? Is it centered in the thread or is it on the sidewall? Is the thread peeling off from the cord?
Some answers to these questions may help determine what is happening to your tires and causing them to fail.
What brand tires did TW recommend that you installed?
Posted 2009-03-31 5:51 PM (#102516 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Member
Posts: 29
So far the tires seem to wear even although no tire ever gets many miles on it, they usually still have the little rubber tits still on the tire. They blow out in all positions and the thread does seperate from the core, it is sometimes started on the thread, sometimes on the sidewall. TW recommended Freelance or Winland, I have bought a set of each neither was any good, China made and all. The Les Scwabb and GoodYear tires, however did not seem, to be any better, Thanks for your comments. I appreciate any and all suggestions/ideas. I believe it is truly a lemon, that why I am having some lemon decals made so when I pull it everyone will recognize it as such. If Trails West don't care, I sure don't.
Posted 2009-03-31 6:21 PM (#102519 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Member
Posts: 29
No, Iam trying to find the best way to fix the problem now, I really like the way the trailer is set up, that's why I would like to keep it. Just need to come up with some solutions.
Posted 2009-03-31 6:35 PM (#102521 - in reply to #102494) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Originally written by Bat1 on 2009-03-31 12:33 PM
I purchased two sets if tires that Trails west recommended, then a set from Good Year Dealer and a set from Les Schwabb Dealer, the axle are 8500 oxles so they should support the weight.
Do you know what the loaded trailer actually weighs?
Have you weighed the trailer with it loaded? Weighed each trailer axle as well as the pin weight on the truck? Just because you purchased the tires they recommended, that don't mean they were the correct tires for the weight you're hauling. Are you buying "ST" tires rated at 65 mph, then hauling heavy running 70-75 mph? .... BOOM!!...
Posted 2009-03-31 6:40 PM (#102522 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Elite Veteran
Posts: 736 Location: Western WA
Brand of tire means less than weight capacity, although I agree the Chinese tires aren't much of a value. Loaded, how much weight is on the tires? Have you weighed your trailer loaded? You need to be sure you have tires with the weight bearing capacity to handle the weight of the loaded trailer. The weight limit for the tire is stamped on the side. Would be interesting to know what the weight rating is for the existing tires and previous tires that have failed. Also, are they properly inflated? The best tire in the world will fail if its underinflated.
Posted 2009-03-31 6:43 PM (#102523 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Elite Veteran
Posts: 736 Location: Western WA
I was just going to add the comment about speed rating, since you mentioned you had all highway miles on your trailer. Most trailer tires aren't rated for more than 60-65 mph, and as previously mentioned if you are driving freeway speeds of 70-75 mph, tires hauling their maximum capacity or near maximum capacity won't tolerate that for long.
Posted 2009-03-31 8:07 PM (#102528 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Expert
Posts: 2453 Location: Northern Utah
As several have posted above. You need to go weigh your loaded trailer and see what each axle is supporting.
If the weight is in line with the rating for the axle and tires. Are the tires rated to match the axle weight and the speed you are towing.
Then you might look at whether they are aligned and running straight. If the axles were installed incorrectly or if you have hit a bump that knocked them out of alignment, that could cause your rig to eat tires.
Are you running the tires at the correct air pressure? If a tire is rated to carry 3900lbs at 110 psi, It might only carry 2800lbs at 65 psi. You could loose 4000lbs of load capacity by running your tires under inflated.
If you want to consider changing things out. I'd probably look at the 17.5" rims. They can rate as high as 6050lbs @ 130psi per tire. Most will be in the 4850lb per tire range. This would increase your load capacity with out the problems associated with triple axles.
I'm not sure (and maybe somebody else can answer) But I think the higher weight rated 17.5" wheels are hub piloted vs Lug centered. So you would have to change out both the axles and the wheels/tires. Even though the larger whees may still use 8 lugs, they may require a heavier lug bolt than the 16" wheels ( possible 5/8" lugs vs 9/16") and may place some of the weight bearing on the center hub vs carrying all the weight on the lugs. you will have to check into that.
New axles will run $700-$900 a piece, plus install. New Wheels are about $250 a piece. And I suspect you will be $250-$350 per tire for 17.5" G or H rated tires. So replacing your running gear will cost you around $4000-$5000.
I had a Logan Coach 4 horse with LQ that when loaded weighed 16,000lbs. It had the 7000lb axles and the GoodYear G rated tires. and they all worked great for me. I'd really be curious to see what your trailer weighs, and what tires and axle Trails West installed.
Posted 2009-03-31 9:00 PM (#102531 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Member
Posts: 29
I have been using G rated tires inflated to 110lb, I am an old guy so I rarely drive above 65 normally arround 60. I will reweigh the trailer in the next couple of days and include the tongue weight on the gooseneck ball as well. Some good ideas will get back to this in a couple days.
Posted 2009-04-01 3:37 PM (#102588 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Veteran
Posts: 211 Location: El Paso, Texas
I have the same trailer and have had the same problem. Lst year I purchased a set of GoodYear RST tires and new wheels. I had have not had a blowout since. I carry 3 horses, 160 gallons of water, 5 bales of hay, 2 genators, etc, etc. Buy good tires that are made for heavy trailers.
Unisteel® G614 RST®
DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO HANDLE THE DEMANDS OF TRAILER APPLICATIONS
Features
Shallow tread provides even wear and reduces running temperatures for casing toughness
Solid, rounded shoulder ribs increase rib stability to promote even wear
Premium casing and mold shape design are tough and highly retreadable
Rib edge sipes and lateral grooves deliver traction
This tire is suitable for 5th Wheel and Travel Trailer
SPECIFICATIONS
Tire Size
Load Range
Side wall
Tread Depth (32s)
Apprvd. Rim Widths
Meas. Rim Width
New Tire Width
Outside Diameter
Max Load at Infla. (PSI) Single
*LT235/85R16
G
BW
12
6.50
6.50
9.5
30.7
3750@110
*This tire requires a special high load capacity wheel andhigh pressure tire valve. Consult wheel manufacturer for proper application. Steel/Steel Construction
Posted 2009-04-01 8:51 PM (#102611 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Veteran
Posts: 188 Location: Ingalls, Ks
Ditto here for the Goodyear 614. 6 Horse fully loaded, hay, water, 10' LQ weighing just under 30K pulling out. (yes I have a CDL and tags). Never had a problem with these tires. We pull all year round and I have been very pleased with the 614 performance. Wheels and valve stems are rated for load. Tires are run at rated pressure. Friends with 14 ply Chinese and Korean tires are not having as good of luck. I believe Michelin makes a tire equivalent to this but I don't know what the name is.
Posted 2009-04-01 9:42 PM (#102614 - in reply to #102611) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Originally written by 301duster on 2009-04-01 9:51 PM
Ditto here for the Goodyear 614. 6 Horse fully loaded, hay, water, 10' LQ weighing just under 30K pulling out. (yes I have a CDL and tags). Never had a problem with these tires. We pull all year round and I have been very pleased with the 614 performance. Wheels and valve stems are rated for load. Tires are run at rated pressure. Friends with 14 ply Chinese and Korean tires are not having as good of luck. I believe Michelin makes a tire equivalent to this but I don't know what the name is.[/QUOTE]
Michelin doesn't have anything in a 16" that matches the G614 at 3750# at 110psi. Closest thing is the Michelin XPS Rib, 3042# at 80psi. Anything above that in a Michelin and you'll have to jump to a 17.5 tire and wheel. That's why the G614 is so popular, nothing else on the market to compete with it, other than the Chinese built tires. I Wish Michelin did build the 235-85R/16 XPS Rib in a Load Range G.... That's what I would be rolling on!!!
Posted 2009-04-02 8:17 AM (#102632 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Veteran
Posts: 188 Location: Ingalls, Ks
Retento, I'm sure you're right about the Michelin not having an equivalent tire to the G614. I read that on a camper forum about a year and a half ago and I never could find that Michelin tire. I figured I just missed it and couldn't find it. I have no Michelin dealers other than "Sears" in my area, so I was never able to truly check it out. Thanks for clearing that up.
Posted 2009-04-02 11:08 AM (#102644 - in reply to #102643) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...
You had my hopes up! Retento is right as usual... load range E 80 psi 3,042 pounds per tire is the heaviest rated 16" that they offer. Now 17.5 tires...they will get you some ratings!
Posted 2009-04-02 11:39 AM (#102648 - in reply to #102643) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Expert
Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
Originally written by hogtownboss on 2009-04-02 11:57 AM
BLOOMER is running a 16" Michelin that is a heavy ply, I think it is a 14 ply on Alcoa wheels!
How about find out for me, cause I ain't seen any of those yet. Ask for one of those around here and the tire man will look at you like you got two heads!!.... I'll be wanting a set real soon.
Posted 2009-04-03 2:24 PM (#102703 - in reply to #102648) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Expert
Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
Will check in person on Saturday and let you know. We are going to the vet in Weatherford and there is a large Bloomer dealership right down the road, so I will look then and see if I can get a picture of them.
Posted 2009-04-05 10:59 AM (#102767 - in reply to #102490) Subject: RE: Trails West Trailers
Member
Posts: 29
Well I have had the trailer officially weighted empty wt: 14,760, tongue weight: 4,260, front axle: 5240, rear axle: 5260, loaded with four horses only, no feed or water, clothing, etc., total; 20704, tongue: 5962, front axle 7363, rear axle: 7371 lbs. so it seems I am pushing the upper limits of the tires with horses only. Thanks everyone for your input, I will do more research into different tires. To El Paso Bob: I seen you in Globe, AZ in March, I would like to know more about the wheels you use.
Trails West Trailers
What's the GVWR on that trailer and what do you pull it with??