Posted 2009-01-05 11:12 PM (#97016 - in reply to #96935) Subject: RE: which truck to buy??
Expert
Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
hounddog, if you are talking about my reply, I will have to disagree with you. Not only the ones I "use" to own but the ones I still buy every month.
Every single time I have bought a DIESEL truck to drive a week or how every long it took me to fix them the way I want them to run and I have always recouped the money I spent on the ungrades then some. That is why I like to work on them, most people do not understand how little it takes to make these trucks run and pull even better. And when I advertise them to sell I have found that the fixed up trucks sell faster and bring more money! I have only been doing this with DIESEL's since 2000 and I have sold them both ways.
Sure with fuel back down to 2.00 per gallon and you are driving that truck a few years it will take longer to recoup the expense. On a avg. of 2 mpg better with the upgrades that cost you around $600.(exhaust, module and intake system) you would save around $10.00 for every 500 miles so you would have to drive around 30-k miles to recoupe your $600.00 investment. Not to mention how much better your truck is going to run and pull!
fyi, if you figure on the avg. 2.49 per gallon the savings is around $13.00 per 500 miles, so you would only have to drive around 23-k miles!
Posted 2009-01-06 12:00 AM (#97020 - in reply to #96829) Subject: RE: which truck to buy??
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Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
.Modded trucks bring no more money then stock.In fact sometimes less if trying to trade.Smart buyers are leary of them and so are the car lots.People mod these trucks to go faster.Thats it for the most part.Exhaust work and a different air intake may net you 1 mpg but the cost is what for decent pieces about $700.That buys a lot of fuel.If you mod one it will make it more fun to drive but at a cost,not a savings.Same old story 'you play you pay.if you want the real skinny on mods and prices the info is out there in the MANY diesel truck sites and forums.I had a conversation with a driver deliving a horse trailer to me.He was driving a 05 Dodge 4x4 6 speed srw.It had 530,000 plus on it.No major repairs and one clutch assy.One of the drivers statements was how he had buddy's with trucks heavy mod's that got no better fuel mileage,got to their destation no faster,had more breakdowns and was out the exspense of all those goodbyes.Makes perfect sense to me.Oh and K&N air filters aren't thought much of in the diesel world.Diesels draw in huge amounts of air and the K&N flows lots of air.At a price.They also tested to be time and time again one of the worst at FILTERING the incoming air.Oil testing shows high silicate levels(dirt) when K&N filters are used.There are other brands that filter better.Don't flow as well but don't compromise engine life as bad as the K&Ns.A "quality" stock paper filter offers the best filtering.
Posted 2009-01-06 6:49 AM (#97028 - in reply to #97020) Subject: RE: which truck to buy??
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Posts: 1416 Location: sc
houndog hit the nail on the head. I wouldnt touch a modded truck when I was looking to buy. Modding 'generally' means somebody is playing with the truck, and there is a much greater chance something is closer to breaking. Not saying a modded truck wont sell, some people are willing to take that chance. There is always a trade off, if the mod was so great then the manufacturer would have made it that way to start with. I have yet of find any verifiable mpg increase from a credible source. MAYBE with a more open exhaust a slight mpg increase could be possible, but when you add a chip........doesnt even make sense. More power requires more fuel, not less.
Posted 2009-01-06 9:09 AM (#97037 - in reply to #97020) Subject: RE: which truck to buy??
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Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
You are correct to somewhat on trade in value. When someone brings a truck in with a high amount of un need grap and extremely load exhaust we cut the price in half. On the other hand when a truck comes is with mild usable upgrades we add to the value.
There is a big difference in added mods to make your truck go fast and making your truck perform better and get the most fuel mileage. I can go all day with you on this, been there done that. And again you are correct about K&N somewhat, if the person is to LAZY to glean it on regularly you are just hurting your enigne.
The trucks I have done I figure the mileage with pencil and paper after 2 fill ups towing and not towing and the worst I have seen with the upgrades I do is 2 mpg! I get my exhaust done for $250., filter or intake for $35.00 to $175.00, module free to $250.00. So I spend anywhere form $285.00 to $675.00.
So bottom line "to each his own" I know for a fact what works for me and has worked since 2000 on all FORD POWERSTROKES and Dodge "CUMMINS". Plus you have to be smart enough to know how to use what you install and what the items are intended to be used for. See too many people buy this stuff to my race cars out of and diesels are not made for that!
Working on a 1997 Chevrolet C2500 extended cab right now with the 6.5 TURBO, auto. Bought it 2 weeks ago bone stock with 135-k miles and getting 16.4 mpg avg unloaded, now with the exhaust and intake only done, checked it yesterday after 2 complete fill ups and I am getting just over 19 mpg avg. unloaded.
Posted 2009-01-06 9:41 AM (#97038 - in reply to #96829) Subject: RE: which truck to buy??
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Posts: 1205 Location: Danielsville Georgia
Well you are the exception on mods for fuel mileage and getting that much better mileage. I've done mods on several of my own with out that magic 2mpg gain.A soild 1mpg was about it.The mods on the market are all just about geared for performance.Almost none are just for mileage.Thats not been the focus. K&N filter capabilities are poor.Not due to so much dirty filters as a somewhat 'dirty'filter performs better then just cleaned. But due to design.Mods on diesel trucks are fun and they make more horsepower but the old saying still is 'you play,you pay" I just want folks to understand there's always two ways of looking at things and most are a give and take when deviating from stock.
Posted 2009-01-07 12:04 AM (#97087 - in reply to #97038) Subject: RE: which truck to buy??
Expert
Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
You mean me and the no telling how many other people that do these mods the right way! Check out powerstroke.org and dieseltruckresource.com and type in the search block mileage or mpg and see what you find. Here is one I found right of the bat:97 D-Tec
Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 371
Its all bout flow:
1) bigger exhaust on a turbo vehicle is better due to more flow
2) the more air moviing in or out of the motor the better (thats y we buy turbos, intakes, exhaust manifolds and etc)
3) better air flow means more or the potential for more hp (which is where manufacturers get their ratings because their trucks may already have the simple bolt-ons like an intake or a programmer that typical consumer already has on their vehicle
4) more hp (especially with diesels) the less the engine has to work
5) the less the engine has to work the more mpg
To start with most people run into a problem when doing the exhaust system, this must be as free flowing as you can get it. No crimps in the pipe anywhere.
The modules that I am talking about do way more than just add fuel, they adjust for timming and air through the MAP sensor.
And talk to ANY diesel tech and he will tell you that more air in and better flow out means more power, cooler running engine and better fuel economy. And this CAN be done even without using a module. Since 2000 the main vehicles I buy and sell or diesel trucks, I have a lot of insite with the new car store service departments around here and 99% of them will tell you that the manufautre has some type of restriction's limiting the actual power or performance and mileage. Weather it be the POS converter that's the size of a samll car or the factory air intake box that is setup to suck the hot air right out of the engine comaprtment. (all of the above is found on my 2007 Dodge with the 6.7 Cummins) Which we have removed the muffler and install a 5" pipe from the converter back and raise my mileage 1.4 mpg while loaded with 15 round bales, for the cost of $100.00. Have put almost 4-k miles since this and still the same. Have not used it unloaded long enough to check the mileage. And with a truck that was getting 11 mpg loaded, you try anything to get that extra mile out of it.
Posted 2009-01-07 9:13 AM (#97100 - in reply to #96829) Subject: RE: which truck to buy??
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Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
I have to agree with Hogtownboss in the performance and mileage gains, he states after modifying a truck's exhaust and computer. His particular mechanical knowledge of various diesels is much more than mine. I am limited to the effects the mods have had on my truck, which is a 7.3 Ford.
I have done the chip (module), exhaust, transmission and inlet modifications, and added gauges to monitor the various systems. I removed the new air box after a few weeks, noticing no improvement in mileage and disliking the additional intake noise. I have also read about K & N's low filtering performance, and have returned to a stock filter sold by NAPA.
My mods have been in use for almost eight years now, and with the switch of all my lubricants to synthetics, I am able to pull a trailer with the same mileage that I used to get, when running empty. This equates to just under 4 mpg. The largest difference I desired was additional torque, which I now have in spades. In the chip's lowest setting, the one recommended for constant towing, I can complete many trips without the transmission shifting to a lower gear or unlocking the torque converter on the many hills I regularly encounter.
I regularly travel one hill that is an 11% grade, that used to be taken in second gear, foot to the floor. Now my transmission uses third gear, and I can maintain the speed limit at a partial throttle.
I am religious about maintenance, and the care of my equipment. I don't drive hard, accelerating or braking abruptly. I don't have foolish money to spend on unnecessary repairs. My truck has been absolutely reliable, with no drive train maladies. I would duplicate my truck in a heart beat if it had to be replaced. Baring an accident, I have no intention of a replacement with new equipment.
Posted 2009-01-07 11:41 AM (#97115 - in reply to #97089) Subject: RE: which truck to buy??
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Posts: 1351 Location: Decatur, Texas
Thank you gard, atleast someone else has done it other than myself and will actually speak up about it.
hounddog, The major problems with the 6.0 engine is lack of cooling. (this is funny because International has no problems with the 6.0 and cooling in the 4300 and 4400 series trucks) The easy fix for this is to block off or eliminate the egr on these trucks! As far as the 6.4's I have not even drove one of them yet, but have heard bad news on power, fuel mileage and shooting flames out of the exhaust. However you can check out dieselpowermag.com and they just done a write up on one of these trucks using a DR Performance module and rised the fuel mileage from 12 something to over 15! This is not heard say, it is black and white from there tech reporter.
Posted 2009-01-07 12:14 PM (#97116 - in reply to #96829) Subject: RE: which truck to buy??
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Posts: 3802 Location: Rocky Mount N.C.
You guys crack me up!!! Maybe ya'll should drive a gasser. I tow with a Chevy 496/Allison combo. Only "CHIPS" I need is a bag of "Lays" and a short Coca Cola!!! LOL!! Big Block Chevrolet, "Boat Anchors" rule!!!
which truck to buy??
