Posted 2009-11-23 2:16 PM (#113528 - in reply to #113430) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Usually when someone tells me he "heard" about a problem, it is from a non owner of that brand. With the best recollections of his friend's neighbor, who's uncle's nephew, has a relative that once......
I find that most of these types of statements have little relevance to real world conditions, and dismiss them as being non factual. Very few times have I been in error for doing so.
When someone owns a particular brand and says he's having a problem with such and such, I am most interested, and grateful for having heard of the situation. When several more owners say the same thing, then there may be a problem, and that issue should be known and researched. It's one thing to state a fact, it's another to spread rumours because someone doesn't like a particular brand.
Not only will individuals spread disinformation, but several manufacturers consistently bend the truth about construction details of other builders' equipment. This is especially prevalent when a steel trailer manufacturer bashes an aluminum builder, or vice versa. Steel rots while you're looking at it; aluminum corrodes faster than it can be built. It takes three times as much aluminum to build the same thing in steel.
There's more than enough hype to go round. Fortunately many of the members of this forum know the truth by now, and know when a new poster starts bashing a brand, he is usually more interested in grinding an axe than spreading relevant information.
Fortunately there are many more good trailers of many brands and construction details, than there are bad. We have a wide selection from which to choose, and each one of us should be able to find that, for which he is searching.
Posted 2009-11-23 6:21 PM (#113541 - in reply to #113528) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Regular
Posts: 65 Location: Southern Il
Well said. We went shopping for trailers and looked at 4-Star, Elite, Bloomer and Platinum. We had never heard of Platimum before. I know different areas seem to have certain brands. They all looked like good trailers. Just different details. Just would like to know if Platinum trailers are better known in other areas of the country and if they are in the same class with the other three. We will check out Cimmaron next week. Thanks.
Posted 2009-11-23 9:58 PM (#113552 - in reply to #113512) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Expert
Posts: 2614
Originally written by BlazingCreekBar on 2009-11-23 6:40 AM
Good Catch crowleysridgegirl. It was intentional that I didn't, I was really not trying to offer Trails02 what to buy but just offer insight from our experiances. Truth is we were (By the end of a long winter of looking) between the Lakota and the Keifer. I would still consider a Keifer if I were to go new. The only turn off on the Lakota was that the Fridge did not open all the way in the standard width trailers (it bounced off the couch). And the minute you started getting into 8 wide all new prices soared. We stumbled on a 2004 Sooner SE228. Made by Sooner and the LQ installed by Harmar. Our Sooner was advertised for two seasons at multiple prices and the photos online were dirty. At great coaxing by my wife we drove less than 45 minutes to look at it. (The owner wanted out money was not the issue) we drove home the owner called us and lowered the price even further. We then return the call with a less than her offer and she took it.
If it's a Sooner,then,you done good!I love Sooner,especially the older ones that were the mill finish. We have a 1995 2H slant BP.We almost bought a 4H this summer,and would have,except there was no title to it from the seller.We stumbled onto another great deal much like yours,a 2000 4 Star 4H slant for the same money.It's good to find such deals,isn't it? Thanks for solving the mystery! I was just curious.
Posted 2009-11-23 9:59 PM (#113553 - in reply to #113541) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Expert
Posts: 2614
Originally written by Trails02 on 2009-11-23 6:21 PM
Well said. We went shopping for trailers and looked at 4-Star, Elite, Bloomer and Platinum. We had never heard of Platimum before. I know different areas seem to have certain brands. They all looked like good trailers. Just different details. Just would like to know if Platinum trailers are better known in other areas of the country and if they are in the same class with the other three. We will check out Cimmaron next week. Thanks.
Having owned a Platinum 3H LQ w/10'SW,Outlaw interior,I can say that Platinum is an excellent trailer.Had it been tall enough on the inside,we would still own it.I don't know exactly where you are in IL,but,there is a large Platinum dealer in Elizabethtown,KY.They may not be too far from you.Also in Farmington,MO,Parkland Trailers.
You wouldn't go wrong,I feel,with any of the 4 brands you have mentioned.Didn't Cimmaron buy out C&C? Or was it CM? Or neither?
Posted 2009-11-23 10:57 PM (#113556 - in reply to #113531) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Originally written by DD_TrailerMan on 2009-11-23 4:05 PM
^ "It takes three times as much aluminum to build the same thing in steel."
Are you saying this is true or false?
According to this published comparison, that statement would be false.
Inch for Inch
Again, for the sake of an easy to follow comparison, we might say that "one inch" of steel plate will yield beyond its ability to recover its original shape at approximately 36k psi, and will fail at approximately 60k psi.
A "strength-equivalent" aluminum structure, having used deflection (stiffness) as the design criteria, will have been built using roughly 50% greater plate thickness. We might then say that this strength-equivalent "one and a half inch" thick aluminum plate will yield at around 51k per square inch of surface area (around 29% greater yield strength than the "equivalent" region of steel plate), and will fail at around 67.5k psi (around 12.5% greater ultimate strength than the "equivalent" region of steel plate).
Of course these broad generalizations are intended only as a way of illustrating the approximate relative strengths of the materials. However, from these considerations we can see that the aluminum vessel will have a greater overall strength than the steel vessel per square area of plate. The reason for this is that the aluminum plate will, for the sake of stiffness, be 150% the size of the steel plate.
The result in practical terms is that a boat built in aluminum will be far less easy to dent by running into stuff (roughly 29% higher regional yield strength), and will have a slightly higher resistance to ultimate failure (around 12.5%). As an added bonus, this means that the aluminum yacht will resist distortion all the better while being welded during construction. As an extra added bonus, the aluminum structure will weigh considerably less than the equivalent steel structure.
Dave Gerr has equated the two materials similarly, referring to a material's structural efficiency. By this, he means the ratio of a material's stiffness to the density of that material. Per those equations, aluminum is shown to have a "structural efficiency" much greater than steel. In more precise terms, for columns that are designed to an equivalent stiffness an aluminum column will weigh 57% of the equivalent column in steel. For beams and panels (frames and plating) designed to the same stiffness, an aluminum structure will weigh 48% of the equivalent structure in steel.
In another published comparison;
In Reply to: Steel vs. Aluminum posted byPat Ryan on March 06, 2002 at 16:08:12:
: I am a prototype technician for an international designer and manufacturer The ratio of tensile strength to weight of high grade aluminum is about the same as for good grade steel. For tensile applications it is therefore a wash.
For bending applications, aluminum can win. For a plate in bending the strength of the plate is related to the cube of the thickness. Aluminum being about 1/3 the density of steel can be at a 9 times advantage based on thickness, which offsets the 1/3 third in strength.
Here's a direct comparison of one steel and aluminum alloy:
For an excellent example of misinformation and hype, please carefully read the following "comparison" and "facts". Unbiased and completely truthful? Hardly
Posted 2009-11-24 8:45 AM (#113564 - in reply to #113430) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Veteran
Posts: 188 Location: Ingalls, Ks
Trails02, to give you an idea about Platinum, I traded one for my Bloomer I mentioned in an earlier response. I traded only because of the set up of the trailer not the brand. Platinums are somewhat popular in Kansas and Oklahoma. They are manufactured in Oklahoma city and are an excellent trailer. I was looking to trade for a new one when the Bloomer I currently own was at a show I was at and got hailed on. Hence right place right time. Actually had a call into Platinum with the specs. of a new trailer when that happened. Took my hail damaged Bloomer home, a friend bought my Platinum right there and everyone is happy. FYI the new Platinum was the same price or a little cheaper than my hail damaged Bloomer. Have had the privilege to meet the owners of both companies and you would have a hard time finding better people!!
Posted 2009-11-24 9:19 AM (#113566 - in reply to #113556) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Veteran
Posts: 188 Location: Kinston, NC
Haha, so from your article, these aluminum trailers should weigh 48% of a steel trailer... I guess you can find any type of junk on the internet. The first article is from a guy selling boats, not sure of the scientific accuracy of his comments. Your second article is from a guy that makes portable tradeshow displays, and sells them (the article sounds alot like his sales pitch). Your third article is from a company selling products. I question the accuracy of these references.
Gard, I know you are experienced with aluminum but have you ever worked with steel?
Here is widely available physical properties of both metals. Since you reference EquiSpirit, I have included gatorshield galvanized tubing. Depending on how you choose to compare, steel is 2-3 times as strong as aluminum. Also, when welded, aluminum tensile strength weakens.
From Allied Tubing's website Tensile strength of alum 30k PSI Tensile strength of gatorshield tubing 55k PSI Yield strength of alum 25k Yield strength of gatorshield 50k Modulus of Elasticity for alum 10000k PSI Modulus of Elasticity of gatorshield 30000k PSI
and this article (they are probably selling something too)
Aluminum’s modulus is about 10 million psi.
Steel’s modulus is about 3 times that: 30 million psi.
That means, for a common structural shape used in jib design, (for example, a 2-inch square tube), and for the same limit of bending with the same load, the wall thickness of an aluminum tube would need to be more than 3 times the wall thickness of a steel tube.
Steel is about 3 times heavier than aluminum. (Steel is about .3 pounds per cubic inch, aluminum is about .1 pounds per cubic inch.) So the aluminum tube with the thicker wall ends up weighing the same as the thinner-walled steel tube, for the same length.
This means: For a typical jib arm designed for a certain stiffness, it will not be any lighter if it's made of aluminum than if it's made of steel!
Note that this is regardless of the alloys chosen--the modulus is pretty constant. For steels, it varies from about 28.5 to 30 million psi; for aluminum it ranges from 9.9 to 10.3 million psi. So “high strength alloys” offer no stiffness advantage.
Clearly, the choice of steel or aluminum for a particular application requires engineering scrutiny beyond the misleading "aluminum is lighter" assumption.
Bartley Heath bartley@DoubleDTrailers.com Buy Factory Direct at DoubleDTrailers.com (manufacturer of all galvanized and all aluminum trailers :)
Posted 2009-11-24 9:21 AM (#113567 - in reply to #113430) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Veteran
Posts: 127 Location: rapid city sd
a little about Platinum history, the owners and engineers all came from 4 star and I think might have went into C&C to begin with as did Elite. That is why they have a simular look. No doubt the best trailers in the industry today
Posted 2009-11-24 10:29 AM (#113570 - in reply to #113566) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Expert
Posts: 5870 Location: western PA
Originally written by DD_TrailerMan on 2009-11-24 10:19 AM
Haha, so from your article, these aluminum trailers should weigh 48% of a steel trailer... I guess you can find any type of junk on the internet. The first article is from a guy selling boats, not sure of the scientific accuracy of his comments. Your second article is from a guy that makes portable tradeshow displays, and sells them (the article sounds alot like his sales pitch). Your third article is from a company selling products. I question the accuracy of these references.
Gard, I know you are experienced with aluminum but have you ever worked with steel?
Yes I worked in a fab shop and the largest vacuum furnace steel factory in the free world, making speciality steels.
It appears that your interest is not one of balance and you will discredit any publishing that does not agree with your ideas. I have no need to get into a pissing contest with you. It's a waste of time with someone too biased to reason against his own agenda.
I presently own three boat trailers, one utility trailer and one flat bed trailer that are all steel framed. I have also owned several steel horse trailers. They all have rust issues, even a galvanized boat trailer. After a few years of outdoor storage, they all look poor. I have two aluminum horse trailers that are older than some of my steel trailers. With a cleaning they look new and require a small percentage of the maintenance of steel.
Steel has its place in construction. It's a staple of the building blocks. So does aluminum. Anyone who attempts to discredit the impact aluminum has had in our everyday lives, has his head in the sand.
Anyone who condones the gross inaccuracies of the EquiSpirit brochure obviously has no intention to present an unbiased, equitable discourse. I have no intention to further spar with someone, who is not willing to accept the realities of how aluminum is presently being successfully used all around him, on an everyday basis.
Posted 2009-11-24 11:50 AM (#113580 - in reply to #113570) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Veteran
Posts: 188 Location: Kinston, NC
I presented the widely accepted physical properties of both metals. I also presented another article to show the wide disparity of 'information' you could find on the internet. So is aluminum 1/3 the strength of steel? I am an engineering graduate, so I don't form random opinions... I attempt to use real information to form intelligent conclusions. In my opinion, there is roughly a 1 to 1 weight ratio of steel vs alum, given similar strength. Do we all agree that there is no significant weight advantage in the most trusted, all aluminum, manufacturers?
After reading one of those articles you quoted...I wonder why the Double D all aluminum trailer doesn't weigh 1/2 of what the all galvanized trailer weighs. Haha, you get pretty testy when you have to defend your comments.
Posted 2009-11-24 12:51 PM (#113583 - in reply to #113564) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Regular
Posts: 65 Location: Southern Il
Thanks for all the comments on Platinum trailers. We are getting a lot of good info. We were not familiar with them. We looked at them and they seemed to be quality trailers, but one never knows with something your not familar with. It would be nice to find a used one like what we are wanting, but do not want to spend that much money on something unless we are happy with it. The interior's are another ball game. We'll just have to be patient and think about it.
Posted 2009-11-24 1:46 PM (#113586 - in reply to #113430) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Veteran
Posts: 229
Trails02, Prior to purchasing my last trailer, I did check out the Platinums, and they were on my short list along with Elite, 4 Star and C&C. If money is tight, instead of trading in, you might think about BCB's suggestion of selling your trailer yourself. You have great trailer for resale and HTW is a great site for selling and purchasing horse trailers.
Posted 2009-11-29 6:55 AM (#113713 - in reply to #113430) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Regular
Posts: 79 Location: Bonham, TX
We searched, well, I did, high and low on the internet for a 4 mule slant with a mid tack....for months!! Get a mid tack, you will be glad you did! Funny thing, like someone else, I was just about ready to give up when hubby got on Horse Trailer World and found our dream trailer just 10 minutes from our house! Private seller, small town, small county. I had looked at this trailer also, but thought it was out of our price range...We called the seller, within an hour had gone to look at it and shook hands on the deal. Got financing through First Internet Bank of Indiana and had our trailer at home in 5 days. We've now had this trailer for a little over a year and have enjoyed many a camping days in it.
The trailer is a 2004 CM Norstar, must be right before CM & Cimmaron split. Fiberglass roof - love it. We have not had any problems with this trailer and it has sat outside all its life. It is not a LQ, but it is carpeted on the walls which gives a pretty good insulation. A/C will freeze you out. We have 4 mules but usually only take 2 with us camping, so the 2 extra slots make for great room for all your gear, hay, etc. and all the chairs, tables, Coleman Hot Water on Demand, Camp Chef stove and potty store in the midtack during travel. Go with as big a trailer as you can.
Posted 2009-12-01 9:31 PM (#113839 - in reply to #113586) Subject: RE: Which brand of trailer?
Regular
Posts: 65 Location: Southern Il
Horsecamper, Thanks for the info. We are still looking and getting a lot of info. We have a lot narrowed down and getting some prices. When we know for sure what we will be getting, your probably right, I'm thinking we will get a better price for our LQ 4-Star on HTW. Thanks.
Which brand of trailer?
